Road to Keogh

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, RamNut said:

I never suggested that. 
I said sack all three or support all three. The major culprit got off very lightly in comparison to his passenger. 
 

Why use the same treatment for all 3 when the individual cases are different?

Would you take the same stance if it was your money at stake?

The major culprit(s) were able to carry on doing what they are paid for,  the other culprit wasnt.

Not sure why people find it so hard to understand.

[G STAR RAM]

10 hours ago, Jayram said:

On what basis was it ok to offer Keogh a vastly reduced contract and only then sack him for ‘gross misconduct’ when he refused to accept it?

On the basis that he was no longer capable of carrying out the duties that he was contracted to do.

Its really very simple. 

[Coneheadjohn]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's that time of year, new season-itis. Pre-season will sweep that away! #COYR

I like the positive thinking?

[GB SPORTS]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

If he was sacked how come he wasn't a free agent?

Derby still held his registration. Footballers contracts and their registration are two different issues. For Keogh to become a free agent it would require his, Derby's and the FA's consent.(so called mutual consent)

Keogh ( i presume he wanted his old job back)would not have agreed to this as it would have probably prejudiced any argument ref suing Derby for breach of contract. Likewise Derby would have held on so they could stand up in court and say that they offered him a suitable alternative contract in the circumstances.

 

[DesertRam]

Most on here seem to be missing the main point - which is that Keogh was the team Captain and

in charge (morally as well), when the Manager and Coaches left, with the understanding that the evening had finished.

It was up to him to call an end to the drinking, and make a decision re taxi's etc.. and fitness to drive, even more so with Lawrence

and Bennett because of their ages. He should have stopped them, and called a taxi!

 

 

 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, DesertRam said:

It was up to him to call an end to the drinking, and make a decision re taxi's etc.. and fitness to drive, even more so with Lawrence

and Bennett because of their ages. He should have stopped them, and called a taxi!

Plus a.n.other youngster who shall remain nameless - not at all how I'd want our captain to behave. I guess that Cocu wouldn't have been impressed either, by the speed in which he took the captaincy off Huddz when he saw his 'Bennett video'!

[S8TY]

As much as we all think players love the club etc etc I don't agree....Footballers today are all about themselves and in some ways I suppose this is right as you have to look after number 1 and your family etc but Derby County FC will be around much longer than any player and yet  clubs now always appears to lose out.

A player now can run his contract down and get a bigger fatter cheque and the club get naff all yet DCFC offered RK a wage and a way to stay at Derby but he chose not too.....some players would not have even been offered this type of deal but he chose not too accept it and stay and as much as I like him and do see him as a legendary player for us who always gave 100 per cent and was rarely injured,... I still beleive if he felt so much for DCFC he'd have stayed but he chose not too .....Great leaving message to all fans and i have no doubt some of it is true as he was here for 7 years but long and short of it is he chose to not stay and is just another player who played for our club...We fans Love the club and very few players if any in my opinion will ever love the club like us and it wouldn't have hurt him in the slightest just to apologise to us fans as i beleive he cost us a higher finish maybe not play offs but none the less higher 

I wish him well 

[Sith Happens]

12 minutes ago, Stockport Ram said:

He always gave 100%. Commitment is clearly part of his make up, otherwise he wouldn't have recovered from such horrific injuries so well in just ten months to have been offered a contract at another club.

I want that level of commitment from anyone wearing a Derby shirt.  I can forgive mistakes as long as I see a player trying their best and LEARNING.  That's what life is about.

 

He was more than a player. He was Club Captain. As well as having a burning desire to win,  I expect DCFC's captain to show the highest level of integrity, taking ownership for your own and your team's actions, a certain degree of intelligence, and at least a little humility.

Compare and contrast with Matt Oakley.

 

Why what did Matt Oakley do?

[atherstoneram]

22 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Am afraid your comparison is full of holes. If you were injured at your workplace and you were following all of the companies SSOW and RA's and were operating equipment or undertaking a task which your were fully trained in and had an accident then your employer would be totally liable for your accident and would be obliged to pay you full pay if you were off sick without prejudice.

If on the other hand you were found not to be doing the above by your employer for example you decided to use a FLT which you had no licence for and piled it through a wall injuring your leg then you would quite correctly face disciplinary sanctions by your employer which could be gross misconduct and also only be paid SSP during your convalescence.

This is a much fairer analogy for Richard Keogh's case.

 

 No, a much fairer anology of this case is that Keogh wasn't driving the FLT was he, Lawrence was, which resulted a 3rd party sustaining an injury, not only driving but under the influence of alcohol at the time thus allowing a claim to be made when dismissed by the employer.

 

[cannable]

13 hours ago, DesertRam said:

Most on here seem to be missing the main point - which is that Keogh was the team Captain and

in charge (morally as well), when the Manager and Coaches left, with the understanding that the evening had finished.

It was up to him to call an end to the drinking, and make a decision re taxi's etc.. and fitness to drive, even more so with Lawrence

and Bennett because of their ages. He should have stopped them, and called a taxi!

That’s not how it works though

He’s a senior employee and work mate outside of work, not their dad

Like, even in the real world a manager wouldn’t say ‘no more drinking’ 

[Sith Happens]

Just now, Stockport Ram said:

He had all of the characteristics which I mentioned.

I was proud to call him my captain. 

ah ok sorry,  I misunderstood. I agree, I am not sure I've ever seen the sort of reception he got when he came back and played with Leicester. 

[Jayram]

16 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

On the basis that he was no longer capable of carrying out the duties that he was contracted to do.

Its really very simple. 

But he was incapable of carrying out his duties even with a reduced contract so why wasn’t he just dismissed for gross misconduct anyway? 
It’s really not ‘very simple’. What it is is unethical.

[G STAR RAM]

13 minutes ago, Jayram said:

But he was incapable of carrying out his duties even with a reduced contract so why wasn’t he just dismissed for gross misconduct anyway? 
It’s really not ‘very simple’. What it is is unethical.

And like all jobs, reduced services provided leads to reduced remuneration.

I wouldn't expect the CEO of Tesco to start working part time on the tills and keep their current salary so I'm not sure why you expect a footballer who can't play football (due to their own negligence) to maintain theirs.

I'm pretty sure if it was you writing the cheque every month you would take a different viewpoint.

Nothing unethical about it in the slightest. Keogh should have been grateful that Derby were happy to employ him and pay him anything at all, in any other job he would have been on SSP.

[Grumpy Git]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

And like all jobs, reduced services provided leads to reduced remuneration.

I wouldn't expect the CEO of Tesco to start working part time on the tills and keep their current salary so I'm not sure why you expect a footballer who can't play football (due to their own negligence) to maintain theirs.

I'm pretty sure if it was you writing the cheque every month you would take a different viewpoint.

Nothing unethical about it in the slightest. Keogh should have been grateful that Derby were happy to employ him and pay him anything at all, in any other job he would have been on SSP.

I'd like to think he's 'cut off his nose to spite his face' too?

Can't see him earning more at MKD than he was offered here?

[nuclear]

36 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

ah ok sorry,  I misunderstood. I agree, I am not sure I've ever seen the sort of reception he got when he came back and played with Leicester. 

I remember quite vividly one game in 2010 where Leicester had Matt Oakley, Chris Powell and Steve Howard (who came on as a sub for a certain M. Waghorn) in their 18 and they all got a thunderous reception from the Derby fans. We had "Leicester legend" Robbie Savage as captain and he got a less friendly response from the opposition!

It was also the game where we won 1-0 thanks to a comical own goal involving two future Rams - Andy King tried to backpass it to Chris Weale in goal, it rolled over his foot and went in before he could scramble back for it. Brilliant.

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Jayram said:

But he was incapable of carrying out his duties even with a reduced contract so why wasn’t he just dismissed for gross misconduct anyway? 
It’s really not ‘very simple’. What it is is unethical.

Perhaps because mel and the club wanted to treat him better than he deserved? He turned his nose up thinking he deserved better ( not) and mel said fair enough ,,jog on mate,,, simple s

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, nuclear said:

I remember quite vividly one game in 2010 where Leicester had Matt Oakley, Chris Powell and Steve Howard (who came on as a sub for a certain M. Waghorn) in their 18 and they all got a thunderous reception from the Derby fans. We had "Leicester legend" Robbie Savage as captain and he got a less friendly response from the opposition!

It was also the game where we won 1-0 thanks to a comical own goal involving two future Rams - Andy King tried to backpass it to Chris Weale in goal, it rolled over his foot and went in before he could scramble back for it. Brilliant.

Savage mentioned that on telly a few years back.  Said it clearly highlighted a huge gulf in class between the two sets of supporters. Imagine that's made him more popular .  Leicester have for years , along with Stoke had a misguided sense of direction when it come's to rivalry with us, hence the booing for player who did very well for them. Unless your in border country with either it doesn't exist.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 hours ago, Paul71 said:

Why what did Matt Oakley do?

I suppose that one answers itself.  He captained the team to promotion rather unexpectedly, was certainly our best player in the awful 07/08 campaign before very oddly being sold to Leicester.  Other than that no attached histrionics. Just a good professional. We were lucky to get him at the time as he'd been a regular for Southampton for a number of years in the top flight might even have been captain for spells.

[cannable]

11 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I suppose that one answers itself.  He captained the team to promotion rather unexpectedly, was certainly our best player in the awful 07/08 campaign before very oddly being sold to Leicester.  Other than that no attached histrionics. Just a good professional. We were lucky to get him at the time as he'd been a regular for Southampton for a number of years in the top flight might even have been captain for spells.

Wasn’t Michael Johnson club captain and Oakley literally just wore the armband?

I don’t know if it’s just Derby fans or football fans in general but there’s such a weird fetishisation over captaincy.

[Sith Happens]

25 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I suppose that one answers itself.  He captained the team to promotion rather unexpectedly, was certainly our best player in the awful 07/08 campaign before very oddly being sold to Leicester.  Other than that no attached histrionics. Just a good professional. We were lucky to get him at the time as he'd been a regular for Southampton for a number of years in the top flight might even have been captain for spells.

Yeah i misread the post, I have loads of time for Oakley.