Unsung hero

[TigerTedd]

We used to have Hughes, Bryson, Hendrick and Thorne for 3 spots. But they were very rarely all fit at the same time, so all got there shot. 

now we’ve got knight, sibley, bird, beilik and Rooney. So 5 for 3 spots. 

i think Beilik will be preferred at centre back, and knight might be more often off the bench, until Rooney starts to be phased out a bit throughout the season. But there’s bound to be someone injured or suspended, so we’ll need them all. 

you watch, well make one mediocre signing this summer and it’ll be a midfielder. 

[minesahartington]

13 hours ago, Big Trav said:

Jason knight. 
 

by far one of the most tenacious and skill full players I’ve seen has the heart of a lion and as Neil warnock would say ‘never shirks a fricking tackle’ one of Derby’s players of the years imo. Scored some important goals and very effective at driving at defences. Can’t wait to see him in his proper position 

Great shout. Since he cost us the a goal a couple of games ago his reaction was superb and he has been one of the few shining lights. Great attitude and will get better

[duncanjwitham]

2 hours ago, Shuff264 said:

I like Knight but I do worry hes going to become victim of being good at a few positions but not great at any.

I think part of the problem is he doesn't really have any standout attributes, he's just pretty decent at everything.  He's not got Hendrick's drive from midfield, he's not got Bryson's off-the-ball running and scoring, he's not got Hughes's vision and range of passing, he's not got Thorne's reading-of-the-game and passing, Sibley's dribbling and finishing and so on.  His passing is decent, his goal scoring record is decent, his tackling is decent etc, so he's a really useful squad player to have - you can drop him in anywhere and he's not going to let you down.  But if you need to add something extra to the team, he's never going to be the answer.  

Obviously his work-rate is excellent etc, I'm talking about technical/mental aspects here.  And he's still young, so he's got plenty of time to improve and add things to his game too.

[Sparkle]

He’s decent now but if he improves on that then he could be a cracking player 

[Andicis]

11 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

he's not got Bryson's off-the-ball running and scoring,

I think he's got exactly that. He covers a tremendous amount of ground and has chipped in 6(?) goals in his first season breaking through. Pretty decent tally, can easily see him hitting double figures next season.

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I think he's got exactly that. He covers a tremendous amount of ground and has chipped in 6(?) goals in his first season breaking through. Pretty decent tally, can easily see him hitting double figures next season.

Better finisher than Bryson. He’s showed that already. And he’s not even playing in his ideal position. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I think he's got exactly that. He covers a tremendous amount of ground and has chipped in 6(?) goals in his first season breaking through. Pretty decent tally, can easily see him hitting double figures next season.

Was about to say exactly the same. Don't think @duncanjwitham is a million miles of the mark, but Knight has definitely got a great engine and an eye for a goal.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I think he's got exactly that. He covers a tremendous amount of ground and has chipped in 6(?) goals in his first season breaking through. Pretty decent tally, can easily see him hitting double figures next season.

Certainly not far off Bryson's best already. 1 goal per 301 mins of football for Knight vs 244 for Bryson. Bryson had a very high assist tally in that 13/14 season. 29 goal contributions from a CM in a single season won't be far off one of the very best recorded in the Championship. It was a one off for him, with his next best season being just 6 goals.

[LeedsRam1999]

5 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

I think part of the problem is he doesn't really have any standout attributes, he's just pretty decent at everything.  He's not got Hendrick's drive from midfield, he's not got Bryson's off-the-ball running and scoring, he's not got Hughes's vision and range of passing, he's not got Thorne's reading-of-the-game and passing, Sibley's dribbling and finishing and so on.  His passing is decent, his goal scoring record is decent, his tackling is decent etc, so he's a really useful squad player to have - you can drop him in anywhere and he's not going to let you down.  But if you need to add something extra to the team, he's never going to be the answer.  

Obviously his work-rate is excellent etc, I'm talking about technical/mental aspects here.  And he's still young, so he's got plenty of time to improve and add things to his game too.

I agree with this post but I think his lack of development of certain attributes is because he has never held down a specific position. 
 

Think if he was a midfielder in a 433/4231 he would develop with regular game time. Easy to forget he is only 19 and you’re very rarely the finished article then. If we are still having this debate in 2/3 years then it’s a issue. 

[IronRam 140.6]

I reckon John McGinn played just like Jason Knight at his age. Polish a few edges up and hold a more central birth who knows. 

Getting a massive whiff of McGinn with him.

[angieram]

In time, I hope Knight's progress will convince Cocu to abandon his defensive midfield pair and go to a 433, with Bird, Knight and Sibley running the league like they did PL2 under 18s.

Depends on Bird gaining some strength, but I think it will happen.

[LeedsCityRam]

2 minutes ago, angieram said:

In time, I hope Knight's progress will convince Cocu to abandon his defensive midfield pair and go to a 433, with Bird, Knight and Sibley running the league like they did PL2 under 18s.

Depends on Bird gaining some strength, but I think it will happen.

I'd be a massive fan of that & think timing is probably not far away.

In my opinion, Knight is wasted out wide - his engine, tenacity & ability to get shots off/valuable goals would be much more effective in the centre. Think Bird is also ready to manage games - quite apart from his consistently good form, you could see with Rooney giving him the armband last night that they're developing him as a leader.

I guess the issue is how Cocu manages Rooney. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would be happy not playing & his presence makes dropping him a difficult call - hopefully rotation & a gradual transition compromise solution could work.

[Zag zig]

22 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I'd be a massive fan of that & think timing is probably not far away.

In my opinion, Knight is wasted out wide - his engine, tenacity & ability to get shots off/valuable goals would be much more effective in the centre. Think Bird is also ready to manage games - quite apart from his consistently good form, you could see with Rooney giving him the armband last night that they're developing him as a leader.

I guess the issue is how Cocu manages Rooney. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would be happy not playing & his presence makes dropping him a difficult call - hopefully rotation & a gradual transition compromise solution could work.

Agree.

Think Rooney has a vital part to play but had just had a few too many games, Cocu has to work out when to rest his team mentor on the pitch, to save him from over playing and explain that. Rooney is not the type of guy to stand down and genuinely will want to do his best, all about squad management and rotation.

No reason your suggestion can’t work, it’s a long season though and all these youngsters will have dips, whilst the old uns might just get a bit knackered. Think we are in an exciting phase of academy development, compare and contrast to Forest and I know who’s future shines brighter for me.

All we need is a few key positions strengthening, to the talent we have coming through and I’m going to get seriously excited for next season.

[MaltRam]

Love the lad. Goals from a breakthrough season, doesn't happen too often.

Knight with Bird, Sibley, Holmes, Bielik, Rooney, Shinnie...not a bad pool at all, and he'll play a major role I'd imagine, next season. 

[uttoxram75]

31 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I'd be a massive fan of that & think timing is probably not far away.

In my opinion, Knight is wasted out wide - his engine, tenacity & ability to get shots off/valuable goals would be much more effective in the centre. Think Bird is also ready to manage games - quite apart from his consistently good form, you could see with Rooney giving him the armband last night that they're developing him as a leader.

I guess the issue is how Cocu manages Rooney. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would be happy not playing & his presence makes dropping him a difficult call - hopefully rotation & a gradual transition compromise solution could work.

I'd like to think that Cocu and Rooney have a good enough relationship to sort out any issues about being left out to trial other systems/players.

When Rooney was growing up Cocu was one of the best players in Europe so there will be plenty of respect between them and Wayne has signed as a player/coach so he is fully committed to learning that side of the game.

The one thing they both have in common is true professionalism, both have 100 caps for their country and have won virtually everything in their playing careers so whether Rooney plays every game or not is not as important as the influence him and Cocu have on the superb bunch of youngsters we have coming through from the academy.

[rammieib]

37 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

Agree.

Think Rooney has a vital part to play but had just had a few too many games, Cocu has to work out when to rest his team mentor on the pitch, to save him from over playing and explain that. Rooney is not the type of guy to stand down and genuinely will want to do his best, all about squad management and rotation.

No reason your suggestion can’t work, it’s a long season though and all these youngsters will have dips, whilst the old uns might just get a bit knackered. Think we are in an exciting phase of academy development, compare and contrast to Forest and I know who’s future shines brighter for me.

All we need is a few key positions strengthening, to the talent we have coming through and I’m going to get seriously excited for next season.

There is a dilemma here for Cocu because he needs to decide whether to build the team style around Rooney or not. Rooney will not be an attacking midfielder or striker anymore. He doesn’t have the legs in the Championship to do this.

Therefore he has to sit deep and that means you must play Bird around him. However you need far more range, movement, dynamic play from the front before of which only Sibley offers that.

What we think looks good on paper, in reality doesn't for me on the pitch. We’re at least two players (Striker and a winger) short of making the 4-2-3-1 system work.

I don’t yet see what Knights outstanding attributes are that’ll make him stand out for us.

[Leicester Ram]

Not going to worry too much about his position for now, he’s grabbed goals at RM and CAM. Looked much better on the wing in the past few games and he’ll be a valuable part of the squad next season.

If we transition back to the 4-3-3, he’ll fit better. As mentioned, I think we’re eventually headed for a midfield of Bird holding with Knight and Sibley in front of him but not while Rooney/Bielik are around.

Seems like the sort of person who makes it as well. Hard working, keeping his head down, no nonsense haircut. I would bet my house on Sean Dyche signing him one day.

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

In time, I hope Knight's progress will convince Cocu to abandon his defensive midfield pair and go to a 433, with Bird, Knight and Sibley running the league like they did PL2 under 18s.

Depends on Bird gaining some strength, but I think it will happen.

Well, that’s the 3 I go with on football manager so it makes sense!

[SKRam]

On 23/07/2020 at 00:23, Big Trav said:

Jason knight. 
 

by far one of the most tenacious and skill full players I’ve seen has the heart of a lion and as Neil warnock would say ‘never shirks a fricking tackle’ one of Derby’s players of the years imo. Scored some important goals and very effective at driving at defences. Can’t wait to see him in his proper position 

Heart of a leprechaun surely? 

[LeedsCityRam]

7 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

I'd like to think that Cocu and Rooney have a good enough relationship to sort out any issues about being left out to trial other systems/players.

When Rooney was growing up Cocu was one of the best players in Europe so there will be plenty of respect between them and Wayne has signed as a player/coach so he is fully committed to learning that side of the game.

The one thing they both have in common is true professionalism, both have 100 caps for their country and have won virtually everything in their playing careers so whether Rooney plays every game or not is not as important as the influence him and Cocu have on the superb bunch of youngsters we have coming through from the academy.

Good points. Think that's spot on.

The other angle here is on the young players' mental & tactical development. One of the most interesting things about Dutch youth systems is the development of a player's ability to read a game & come up with solutions on the pitch without needing a manager to dictate it to them. Massively under-rated skill & very 'un-English' traditionally.

Whilst Rooney is alongside them, there's a danger that a young team will defer that job to him. Without him, they'll be encouraged to think it out & deal with it themselves. You're 0-1 down at home against a team of cloggers who are great on the counter..how do you break them down without over-committing? Essential part of their development & lessons Cocu and his staff (of which Rooney of course is one) will actively be wanting the players to solve.