EFL charge Derby over ffp

[Warren Hobhead]

41 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

So am i right in thinking it's 15-16, 16-17 and 17-18 seasons that contained unacceptable losses?

That would cover the big spending on the Paul Clement season which didn't give very good value really.

 

Spent £8m on Bielik this season, so aren’t learning at all. What was it on Waghorn the other year? Remember that being quite a layout too. 
 

And the best we keep managing is playoffs. 
 

We are a terribly run football club and unlike many on here, I’ve said it from day one. I’ve never trusted Morris. 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, cosmic said:

We we’re explicitly told by our CEO that we’d met FFP. Sold a load of bull. 
 

Cant wait for the stadium stuff, now. Don’t believe a word Morris says. 

I doesn't look good but please lets wait until the findings are released.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

This is probably a lot of people's escape from crap in their lives, hence the over dramatic reactions

It is dramatic whichever way you play it .

Derby have a fight on their hands with the EFL 

[SaintRam]

Note: They only lied to us about being fine with FFP if we lose the fight and receive penalties. 

If we win the fight; they didn't lie - even if we've been charged.

[RamNut]

Not sure why people are surprised. 
selling your ground to yourself is obviously a way of cheating the system

the valuation was also highly suspect.

we deserve to get investigated and now we’ll probably get clobbered.

mel has tried to be too clever for his own good.

As executive chairman will he now be charged with lack of fiduciary whatever-it-was?

sam rush will be pishing himself laughing. 

 

[Owd miner]

5 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Yours for £70m cash?

Ay up mi owd ya Chrysanthemums need cutting back 

[AndyinLiverpool]

amusingly, a nine point deduction, like Birmingham got, would still leave us above Stoke.

[Gritstone Ram]

10 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

I think construction cost has nothing to do with it as it is a sunk cost, it will be a combination of land value+  estimated purchasing price at moderate rate if someone was looking to buy it.  I seriously hope we aren't deducted 11 points or so , as that would seriously leave a bitter taste towards Mel in my view and not the EFL becuase their rules are clear and I don't know the ins and outs of FFP people inside the club are to blame and not the EFL.

I meant to if you were to build it today the approx costs. It is still open to interpretation.

I suppose it would be like buying a house. If you liked it you might pay a bit more for it especially if you thought you could make a few bob on it.

[1967RAMS]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why would the Inland Revenue investigate for over valuing a sale?

Also if there is an independent professional valuation backing the amount up how is it fraudulent?

A company pays tax on profit/ loss, assets and liabilities. If he has in effect understated the company assets by 39 million it would have massively skewed his year end results. He can’t have it both ways. If it’s worth 80 million, it should have stated thus in the accounts. If it’s worth 41 million as claimed in the accounts, it should have been sold for that amount. I’m not for one second saying he will have to watch us from Broadmoor from now on. But Inland Revenue will definitely recalculate the accounts and demand any discrepancies, repaid with interest 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Warren Hobhead said:

Spent £8m on Bielik this season, so aren’t learning at all. What was it on Waghorn the other year? Remember that being quite a layout too. 
 

And the best we keep managing is playoffs. 
 

We are a terribly run football club and unlike many on here, I’ve said it from day one. I’ve never trusted Morris. 

Except Bielik is a young player with potential so is exactly the sort of player we should looking to sign.

We are also promoting players from our academy, meaning no signing on fees and pure profit if we sell them on.

Strange to say we are not learning.

[IronRam 140.6]

27 minutes ago, Duracell said:

Remember that news story when in 13/14, we had one of the bottom 6 wage budgets but were in the top 6?

6 years later, and the situation is the precise opposite.

And thats where the crux of the problem is. Being one division below the Premier makes it hard to not be drawn in with the fiscal lunacy of getting there. Agents of "nearly footballers" jump all over it and secure £20k a week pay rises when the clubs in question get the merest sniff of promotion. I'm thinking Martin, Bryson off the top of my head. Bet they went from £7 - 8k a week to £25k +. 

But imagine the reaction if we fobbed that off and let them leave or sold them whilst riding high? We'd have had the same level of outcry. All we've done is defer it until now.

Its a hideous self perpetuating cycle that biggish clubs like ourselves Forest, Leeds, Weds, Boro et al have all been swept up in, in one way or another.

Agents and Sky TV are doing this. I would love to make every single player negotiate his own contract face to face with the person paying it.

 Just to see how necky these agents are, doubt many second tier journeyman would have the bottle to go much above 15k a week for their services. If they did it tells you all you need to know. 

I also know there is a Rooney sized elephant in the room whilst typing that. Sums it up really, we should be nowhere near the signing of those sort of players.

[Curtains]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7895895/Derby-County-charged-EFL-making-excess-losses-FFP-regulations.html

[Millenniumram]

6 minutes ago, S8TY said:

I don’t always agree with you but you make some valid points especially the part about scouts and selling the ground ...

Also the drink driving incident was not dealt with correctly 

perhaps now you might see how difficult it must be for Mr Cocu ...seems quite shambolic to me 

I was gonna make the point that as much as I don’t rate Cocu as manager, he’s the man I really feel sorry for here. Seems a nice bloke and none of this is his fault. He didn’t deserve to walk into this mess.

[Owd miner]

20 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

How do you value a football stadium. Is it the cost of purchasing the land + the cost of construction or is it the constructed cost + potential revenue income. I reckon PP would cost more than £80m to build.

It's done mi owd by measuring how many allotments ya could fit on the ground or summat like that 

[Rev]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why would the Inland Revenue investigate for over valuing a sale?

Also if there is an independent professional valuation backing the amount up how is it fraudulent?

It was Mel himself who brought the Inland Revenue into the discussion, during his Jim White interview in the summer.

He basically said he couldn't undervalue or overvalue the stadium sale as HMRC would take a dim view of moving an asset between related parties for less than the value of said asset.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

46 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

No wonder Mel wants the kids playing...

Thought that interview with Ramage was weird. He didn't sound right.

So, so disappointed to see the way this club has been run. Maybe we need a relegation. A restart. 

That was exactly how I took that interview, he knew more than we knew.

The new season ticket letter is going to make fun reading.

[GenBr]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Agreed.

As an aside though do you remember our fanbase when we were being run by GSE, bottom 6 wage bill and still running up annual losses of £9m/£10m?

I do, the numbers dwindled, I believe there were even protests outside the ground against them because they would only sanction 'Barker like fees'. The manager and scouts were abused because we shopped around the lower divisions and Scotland.

Some people have very short memories.

I dont disagree with you. GSE were also incompetent in my eyes.

Its a fine balance to strike, but the likes of Shef Utd have shown you dont have to go bust to do it. (Or at least break the arbritrary limit set by the EFL)

I hate the FFP rules with a passion, but they werent a surprise for us. They have been in place for a long time now. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, 1967RAMS said:

A company pays tax on profit/ loss, assets and liabilities. If he has in effect understated the company assets by 39 million it would have massively skewed his year end results. He can’t have it both ways. If it’s worth 80 million, it should have stated thus in the accounts. If it’s worth 41 million as claimed in the accounts, it should have been sold for that amount. I’m not for one second saying he will have to watch us from Broadmoor from now on. But Inland Revenue will definitely recalculate the accounts and demand any discrepancies, repaid with interest 

A company does not pay tax on a property revaluation.

DCFC has millions of unused tax losses.

I can assure you that Inland Revenue will not be re-calculating the accounts and demanding any discrepancies are repaid with interest.

[MikeS]

7 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

Kevin Maguire just been on the radio he says this all revolves around the stadium valuation if you took out the sale the ffp losses would have been £53million which on the Birmingham style punishment would equate to a  eleven point deduction.However has they have allowed the sales of stadiums of other clubs grounds they will have to allow it to be taken into account but at a reduced value which would he guessed be similar to Readings at £27 million which would still mean Derby comply with ffp.

The interesting thing he says is that Derby have received the £80 mill into their bank but the other sales were purely numbers moving around on paper.

The most interesting item in the whole thread. If £80 million has actually been paid for the stadium and handed over, then that is the price. No matter who has paid it!

[ramit]