The Politics Thread 2020

[bigbadbob]

10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

 

If I may be so bold to speak on behalf of 'the left', I'm having trouble dealing with the new normal of Trump/Johnson, especially as it's been so rapid. I feel they are in the process of destroying Western democracy and it's difficult to know how to stop them.

 

@Norman, @maxjam, @Angry Ram @G STAR RAM

 

Vote them out

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, bigbadbob said:

Vote them out

....by replacing them with a decent alternative

...all the pieces are beginning to fit together now!

[bigbadbob]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

....by replacing them with a decent alternative

...all the pieces are beginning to fit together now!

I know, weird innit

[1of4]

Lets all rush to follow the American dream. Where people have to work three jobs to survive. Where people are dying from drinking contaminated water due to the scraping of environmental regulations. Where worker's rights are next to none existent. Where people are dying because they can't afford to buy the medication they need, that includes many who have health insurance. Where people are being extradited as 'illegals' even though they were born in the USA. Where in certain states, expectant mothers can be charged with manslaughter if they have a miscarriage. Where the nation's leader can lie with impunity and the rest of his party are so desperate to ride the gravy train, they'll say and do anything to justify what he does.

Oh yes @G STAR RAM asked what part of our country's population I fear for, while informing me that America seem to be going well.

Well going by the above, I'd probably have to say all of it.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Lets all rush to follow the American dream. Where people have to work three jobs to survive. Where people are dying from drinking contaminated water due to the scraping of environmental regulations. Where worker's rights are next to none existent. Where people are dying because they can't afford to buy the medication they need, that includes many who have health insurance. Where people are being extradited as 'illegals' even though they were born in the USA. Where in certain states, expectant mothers can be charged with manslaughter if they have a miscarriage. Where the nation's leader can lie with impunity and the rest of his party are so desperate to ride the gravy train, they'll say and do anything to justify what he does.

Oh yes @G STAR RAM asked what part of our country's population I fear for, while informing me that America seem to be going well.

Well going by the above, I'd probably have to say all of it.

I assume President Trump will be on the end of a crushing defeat if all of these problems are true and all down to his Presidency. 

[TramRam]

The Far right is a product of Far left/left wing policies, Left wing policies...dare I say Socialism is what I was brought up on in the 60s/70s and the welfare state did look after you whether Tory or Labour, Right wing policies...dare I say capitalism was the mantra of Thatcherism.

Socialism is dead imo, Thatcher in the 80s(spit)saw it was one for all and all for one, You got what you could before getting on and off that merry go round for work, The centre ground is/has been swallowed up by a sink hole, You can be a little to the left or a little to the right, The middle ground has gone.

Politics and Politicians are like click bait, You listen and depending on your political beliefs you'll nod to their calling and give them your vote, Believe me when I say this, They're not here for us any longer, They're there for themselves.

The Westminster Bubble is alive, But the Electorate will eventually do the Kicking.

 

[1of4]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I assume President Trump will be on the end of a crushing defeat if all of these problems are true and all down to his Presidency. 

You could well be assuming wrongly. Worryingly he could win the 2020 election. This doesn't mean that he's going a good job. More like the people of America don't want to vote for his rival. Tell an American  that someone's political views are even a smidgen left of centre and they'll be calling them commies.

Me , if I was a US citizen I'd definitely be supporting Bernie Sanders. 

[Angry Ram]

5 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

You could well be assuming wrongly. Worryingly he could win the 2020 election. This doesn't mean that he's going a good job. More like the people of America don't want to vote for his rival. Tell an American  that someone's political views are even a smidgen left of centre and they'll be calling them commies.

Me , if I was a US citizen I'd definitely be supporting Bernie Sanders. 

If he’s up against Bernie, game over.

[maxjam]

The Democrats will do well to survive the election as one party at this rate, its one disaster after another atm. 

The only thing that can stop Trump atm is Trump himself - and theres always a chance of that ? 

[1of4]

9 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

If he’s up against Bernie, game over.

If the DNC don't sabotage his nomination  as the democratic candidate. Then the presidential race could be a lot closer  than many think.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Don't understand the worry about whether its trump or not trump.

Whichever side wins the us election,  the military-industrial complex will carry on....

[Highgate]

44 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Don't understand the worry about whether its trump or not trump.

Whichever side wins the us election,  the military-industrial complex will carry on....

Maybe not.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/26/bernie_sanders_to_military_industrial_complex_we_will_not_contnue_to_spend_700_billion_per_year_on_war.html

If Bernie can defeat the Democrat establishment and win the nomination, then he can beat Trump in November.  Not that either will be easy. 

[Angry Ram]

14 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Maybe not.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/26/bernie_sanders_to_military_industrial_complex_we_will_not_contnue_to_spend_700_billion_per_year_on_war.html

If Bernie can defeat the Democrat establishment and win the nomination, then he can beat Trump in November.  Not that either will be easy. 

Money wins, Bernie loses. If he does win, he had better not go to Dallas in an open top limo.

[Highgate]

32 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Money wins, Bernie loses. If he does win, he had better not go to Dallas in an open top limo.

That's a pretty depressing outlook.  No doubt money does distort the US's bizarre attempt at democratic elections to a large degree, no doubt about it. Bernie's biggest obstacle in that regard is winning the Democratic nomination, not the presidency itself.

As for the Dallas reference, that's what we heard when Obama got elected too?, albeit for different reasons  And he came through two terms unscathed.

[1of4]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Money wins, Bernie loses. If he does win, he had better not go to Dallas in an open top limo.

Careful now. I think you've been reading to many of Trump's tweets. Your starting to sound like a radicalized MAGA hat wearer.

[uttoxram75]

3 hours ago, 1of4 said:

If the DNC don't sabotage his nomination  as the democratic candidate. Then the presidential race could be a lot closer  than many think.

This is the real battleground in western democracies now. Its all about making sure the opposition doesn't actually change anything that will disturb the status quo.

Its more important to control the opposition than to bring the government to account.

We are heading towards corporate control of every aspect of our lives. 

If someone without the baggage of Corbyn, with the gift of the gab, the nous and political acumen of Tony Blair but the policies of Tony Benn came to the fore, would he, or she, last long?

Would the Labour stalwarts taking the oil/pharma/hedge fund money ensure they were discredited? Course they would.

 

I think, the power brokers, the big money, the elite, whatever we call the ones who own our politicians, have won. They control the media and everything we read or hear....the corporate elite have not only taken over our governments but they have also invested their billions into owning or destabilising any opposition to their world vision.

@Angry Ram nailed it with his comment about open topped tours of Dallas.

[Comrade 86]

Trump's a shoo-in unfortunately. Much as I respect Sanders and his values, he has no chance of displacing the Trump who has proven that the bigger the lie, the more likely it is that close to half the US electorate will lap it up. Sanders' inherent decentness will be his undoing as he will talk policy while Trump will simply smear him as Stalin reincarnated with a very predictable outcome.

The only way the left can win an election in the US currently is to be as right-facing as the Republicans themselves. Sadly, the US is very close to a single party state right now and may in time pay an extremely heavy price for allowing itself to become so.

[Andicis]

18 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Trump's a shoo-in unfortunately. Much as I respect Sanders and his values, he has no chance of displacing the Trump who has proven that the bigger the lie, the more likely it is that close to half the US electorate will lap it up. Sanders' inherent decentness will be his undoing as he will talk policy while Trump will simply smear him as Stalin reincarnated with a very predictable outcome.

The only way the left can win an election in the US currently is to be as right-facing as the Republicans themselves. Sadly, the US is very close to a single party state right now and may in time pay an extremely heavy price for allowing itself to become so.

If the DNC even allow Sanders to win. After all the murky shenanigans in Iowa, I wouldn't be surprised if it's rigged against him. But sadly I agree with you, Trump is probably going to cruise to an easy victory later this year. I just hope we're moving back to sensible politics soon.

[Carl Sagan]

America's basically a socially conservative right-of-center country. The incumbent has a lot of advantages which is why a President normally serves two terms. 

When Trump was winning the GOP nomination it should have made him unelectable. The catch 22 being to be popular enough to win the vote of extremist Republicans should rule you out of being able to win the presidency. But two things were in his favor.

One he was a TV megastar so known and loved throughout the country for being business-savvy, into charitable good causes and friends with bucketfulls of celebs (many black and/or LGBT). Which was the real Donald Trump? He'd been a registered Democrat most of his life but stood for the GOP partly so he didn't have to run against his close friend Hilary Clinton. 

Two, Hilary was a terrible candidate, part of the nepotism culture and with a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude. She couldn't criticize Trump's personal behaviour because she'd defended her husband for far worse and hounded the women who dared accuse him. When Bill became President they were hugely in debt. Miraculously they have since amassed a vast fortune, fed into the Clinton Foundation. As Secretary of State, she required donations to the foundation for favors. "Drain the swamp" was an easy catchphrase. 

Oh and that wall people ridicule Trump for? Bill Clinton began building it. Bush took up the cause and built thousands of miles of Mexican border wall in a bipartisan program with the support and votes of Senators Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama. That just doesn't fit the media narrative. 

Now the Democrats have gone extreme and disappeared down their own rabbit hole. Anyone who wins their own nomination will by definition be unelectable.

What we don't see over here are the political ads which are a massive part of every campaign. Last time Hilary said she'd "put half of Trump's supporters in a basket of deplorables" basically using the same tactic as remainers accusing the other side of being racist or fascist or whatever. Trump ran her comments over and over in TV ads. Insulting the electorate is never the way to win them over. 

If Bernie wins the nomination Trump's campaign is a doddle. He just runs interview footage of Sanders praising Castro saying Cuba's a wonderful model, as are the high-taxation European countries and if only America could be like them it might become a half-decent country. Sanders wouldn't have a hope in hell. A record defeat. But up until the last minute twitter would convince the Dems they were in with a chance. 

[1of4]

3 hours ago, Andicis said:

If the DNC even allow Sanders to win. After all the murky shenanigans in Iowa, I wouldn't be surprised if it's rigged against him. But sadly I agree with you, Trump is probably going to cruise to an easy victory later this year. I just hope we're moving back to sensible politics soon.

If your last sentence is referring to British politics. Then no it won't be moving back to sensible politics any time soon. It looks to be heading rapidly down the same road to madness as that of American politics.