The Politics Thread 2020

[WhiteHorseRam]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

The only problem with this is if you take away everything, they no longer care about anything. Which endangers those looking after them. 

I get assaulted enough as it is. 

Take care of your self @Norman

If I was Home Secretary you'd have more protection, though I'd probably end up on trial at the Hague.

[ossieram]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

The only problem with this is if you take away everything, they no longer care about anything. Which endangers those looking after them. 

I get assaulted enough as it is. 

Not if they're in dungeons chained to the wall.

[SaintRam]

1 minute ago, ossieram said:

Not if they're in dungeons chained to the wall.

#BringBackHangingCages

[BriggRam]

The legislation to automatically release prisoners after completing half their sentence was brought in, in 2003......by Tony Blair and his Labour government, Boris can’t do anything about it till it’s all changed which he is trying to do

[ossieram]

Just now, SaintRam said:

#BringBackHangingCages

Pits are better, they can't drop turds like they can from cages.

[SaintRam]

3 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Pits are better, they can't drop turds like they can from cages.

Yeah but they're harder to poke. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

The only problem with this is if you take away everything, they no longer care about anything. Which endangers those looking after them. 

I get assaulted enough as it is. 

Whatever they pay you, it's not enough.

Take care.

[Norman]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes, the post was a bit tongue in cheek.

I do have a bit of insight into this as 2 of my mates have been imprisoned and the brother of another mate committed suicide in prison.

Like you say, solutions are not as easy to find as you would think they should be.

It's why I see blaming the Government as a pointless attack, after all of this time we, as a civilisation, have failed to create fail safe ways of rehabilitating large numbers of prisoners, that falls on us as a society,  not on politicians as Conservatives or Labour, in my opinion.

I think also the fact that the prison service is very much out of sight, out of mind. 

Police rightly get the credit they deserve, but we have poo thrown on us, punched, kicked, bit, see people eating themselves, starving themselves, hanging themselves. We have to put up with female officers getting taken hostage.....it can be a horrific place to work. 

Prison isn't this nice place people make out. It ducks most people up. Some find it easier than others, obviously. 

[ariotofmyown]

6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Apologies if I'm wrong but I cannot see where you commented on the BBCs failure to cover Boris Johnsons speech?

So it was ok to change the subject from that rather quickly but not your story is something bad about Johnson we have to keep the discussion going?

Glad to see Leave voting Conservatives pointing out that the banning of journalists is abhorrent behaviour, think it underlines the fact that they actually read stories and treat them on their merits as opposed to just seeing who is involved and deciding the outcome based on that.

At no point in time should we allowed our politicians to control our media but there again we should also not have it the other way round. 

It's also a good job that this story came out today or we might have found ourselves in an awkward situation where we were having to discuss yet another Islamic terrorist trying to kill and maim in our country...

See @Van Wolfies post just after yours.  These are real attacks on democracy, rather than those traitors like Ken Clarke, Hammond etc trying to secure a brexit deal that tries to limit the damage to the uk. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, Norman said:

I think also the fact that the prison service is very much out of sight, out of mind. 

Police rightly get the credit they deserve, but we have poo thrown on us, punched, kicked, bit, see people eating themselves, starving themselves, hanging themselves. We have to put up with female officers getting taken hostage.....it can be a horrific place to work. 

Prison isn't this nice place people make out. It ducks most people up. Some find it easier than others, obviously. 

Very true I fear. 

The headlines are all at the front end so that successive Home Secretaries can claim great credit for "tougher sentences " and such,  without giving as much thought as to what to do after the point of sentence. 

[bigbadbob]

11 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Hasn't he got off lightly on the terrorist front too? That's now two terrorists in the space of a couple of months who have left prison and almost immediately offended again. This is all happening under the Tory government. BJ now wanting to pass emergency laws to stop it happening again, but are they not culpable for what has already happened?

 

If you were in a position to, what would you do differently to try and prevent  the same happening?

[Sith Happens]

8 hours ago, BriggRam said:

The legislation to automatically release prisoners after completing half their sentence was brought in, in 2003......by Tony Blair and his Labour government, Boris can’t do anything about it till it’s all changed which he is trying to do

Not real labour blah blah blah.

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, bigbadbob said:

If you were in a position to, what would you do differently to try and prevent  the same happening?

Stop carpet-bombing half of the Middle East. Stop invading countries on the pretext of them having (non-existent) WMDs. Stop selling weapons to the Saudis. Stop supporting illegal American incursions throughout the region. Allow oil rich states to devolve from the petrodollar. Stop actively training and funding terrorist groups with our tax money. Stop manufacturing and selling arms into these warzones.  Stop funding, arming and enabling military coups that displace liberal and forward thinking governments in favour of Western controlled despots. Stop going to war when said despots decide they don't like us anymore. 

There's a few suggestions that at least address the root causes of the 'disease', rather than merely the symptoms. If we don't like these solutions then just implement black sites everywhere like the Yanks where we ship 'disappeared' folk off to, never to be seen again.

The final option is blather on about stiffer sentencing, further fuel the fanatics in doing so and then leave the likes of @Norman and our blue light workers to pick up the pieces whilst others line their pockets at everyone else's expense. 

Simple really.

 

[ramit]

13 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

If you want to start throwing away the key for people who have only started to think about stuff then that's a slippery slope.

 

That got me thinking, but then i thought better of it

[bigbadbob]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Stop carpet-bombing half of the Middle East. Stop invading countries on the pretext of them having (non-existent) WMDs. Stop selling weapons to the Saudis. Stop supporting illegal American incursions throughout the region. Allow oil rich states to devolve from the petrodollar. Stop actively training and funding terrorist groups with our tax money. Stop manufacturing and selling arms into these warzones.  Stop funding, arming and enabling military coups that displace liberal and forward thinking governments in favour of Western controlled despots. Stop going to war when said despots decide they don't like us anymore. 

There's a few suggestions that at least address the root causes of the 'disease', rather than merely the symptoms. If we don't like these solutions then just implement black sites everywhere like the Yanks where we ship 'disappeared' folk off to, never to be seen again.

The final option is blather on about stiffer sentencing, further fuel the fanatics in doing so and then leave the likes of @Norman and our blue light workers to pick up the pieces whilst others line their pockets at everyone else's expense. 

Simple really.

 

I didn't ask you.

[Wolfie]

9 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Stop carpet-bombing half of the Middle East. Stop invading countries on the pretext of them having (non-existent) WMDs. Stop selling weapons to the Saudis. Stop supporting illegal American incursions throughout the region. Allow oil rich states to devolve from the petrodollar. Stop actively training and funding terrorist groups with our tax money. Stop manufacturing and selling arms into these warzones.  Stop funding, arming and enabling military coups that displace liberal and forward thinking governments in favour of Western controlled despots. Stop going to war when said despots decide they don't like us anymore. 

 

Not doing what we've done for the last 50 odd years, with the benefit of hindsight, isn't very helpful in the short term, though.

And it hasn't prevented countries not involved in those activities being targeted by terrorists.

[Spanish]

21 hours ago, BriggRam said:

The legislation to automatically release prisoners after completing half their sentence was brought in, in 2003......by Tony Blair and his Labour government, Boris can’t do anything about it till it’s all changed which he is trying to do

from what I have read that is not totally true.

An indeterminate sentence for public protection was a measure introduced by the Labour government in 2005. The Imprisonment for Public Protection regime was later scrapped by the Conservative-led coalition in 2012.  However,  Labour introduced the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act in 2008 after concerns that there was an uncontrollable increase in the prison population.  It provided for automatic release after prisoners serving long sentences had served half their term, without the prisoners’ having to go before the parole board, as they previously had to do.  Whether anybody realised that this law was in conflict with the IPP who knows?  Neither side comes out well over this.

[Norman]

29 minutes ago, Spanish said:

from what I have read that is not totally true.

An indeterminate sentence for public protection was a measure introduced by the Labour government in 2005. The Imprisonment for Public Protection regime was later scrapped by the Conservative-led coalition in 2012.  However,  Labour introduced the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act in 2008 after concerns that there was an uncontrollable increase in the prison population.  It provided for automatic release after prisoners serving long sentences had served half their term, without the prisoners’ having to go before the parole board, as they previously had to do.  Whether anybody realised that this law was in conflict with the IPP who knows?  Neither side comes out well over this.

Not true. You have to complete sentence plans/targets, Victim Awareness courses, have a clean ***** record, be in meaningful employment or education, have a suitable resettlement plan etc etc. You don't just get released. It actually takes quite the effort and behaviour to get out halfway through your sentence. 

[G STAR RAM]

12 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Stop carpet-bombing half of the Middle East. Stop invading countries on the pretext of them having (non-existent) WMDs. Stop selling weapons to the Saudis. Stop supporting illegal American incursions throughout the region. Allow oil rich states to devolve from the petrodollar. Stop actively training and funding terrorist groups with our tax money. Stop manufacturing and selling arms into these warzones.  Stop funding, arming and enabling military coups that displace liberal and forward thinking governments in favour of Western controlled despots. Stop going to war when said despots decide they don't like us anymore. 

There's a few suggestions that at least address the root causes of the 'disease', rather than merely the symptoms. If we don't like these solutions then just implement black sites everywhere like the Yanks where we ship 'disappeared' folk off to, never to be seen again.

The final option is blather on about stiffer sentencing, further fuel the fanatics in doing so and then leave the likes of @Norman and our blue light workers to pick up the pieces whilst others line their pockets at everyone else's expense. 

Simple really.

 

Although I agree with most of what you have said, I'm not sure why any of them things would make a British born person want to go out and kill innocent citizens.

What is the link?

[Carl Sagan]

Glad there's a discussion about prisons on here. As @Normansays it's sadly out of sight, out of mind.

A huge issue is that it's easier to get drugs inside than out and vast numbers of inmates are on spice. And that often puts prisoners into debt, which they can't pay off. Either they're brutally beaten for owing money, or the local islamist faction offers to pay their debt in exchange for signing up to the cause. That's a significant reason for the recruitment of young inmates who on the surface appear unlikely candidates. 

After decades of neglect the task of reforming/improving prisons for the overall good of society is both huge and unpopular. It needs lots of money, a focus on health and education, probably a significant change in sentencing ideas and much better use of technology. Plus we obviously need a complete reappraisal of society's attitude to illegal drugs.

I hope it happens. I don't think it's anyone's priority. If they don't legalize drugs I'd bang Gove up for several years for his coke habit and, by the time he came out he'd have become a crusading figure for change. You need someone high profile and political to make it happen.