WhiteHorseRam Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 09/02/2020 at 12:08, AndyinLiverpool said: Don't do the 'you lot' thing. I don't like throwing around the word 'fascist'. It tends, in my opinion to a) detract from actual discussion because it's just childish name calling and b] allow actual fascists to get off lightly by hiding amongst more 'respectable' groups. As for Johnson, he has always been on the more liberal wing of the conservative party but he has somewhat dug a hole for himself in terms of the nationalist rhetoric he has spewed out - with 2 main effects: 1) He ends up hanging around with the right of the party and putting them in his cabinet and 2) Moderate people are forced into a position of following or rejecting this. Many of those that follow will hold their noses; many of those that reject will become enemies. Personally, I have never trusted him but even the unscrupulous and brazenly dishonest will sometimes still do good things. I am still waiting... I think Boris Johnson has always been on the Boris Johnson wing of the Tory party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 9 hours ago, WhiteHorseRam said: I think Boris Johnson has always been on the Boris Johnson wing of the Tory party. I'm happy with some of the noises coming from Johnson's crew at the moment. Investing in buses, possible mansion tax, no tax cuts for the rich. It's weird times when the Tories win loads of Labour votes, then do things for them that were never mentioned before the election. But if it means getting good things done that Labour had previously been ravaged for suggesting, so be it. I expect the Tories on here will be furious about it though. A sceptic may suggest that they are just getting this stuff in early to help out the people who they know are going to be screwed over by their Brexit, but I don't think they are that clever. They seem to be making it up a day at a time, so it's good news they seem to be helping people out for now. It probably won't last long so let's enjoy it whilst we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Stop HS2....... Waste of time, countryside and at least £105 billion pounds of taxpayers' money. Run an unbiased (?) feasibility study into a) re-nationalising and b) re opening branch lines. Pay not one penny more to the EU. We owe neither a bar bill nor a divorce settlement. Accept that we have no special relationship with the US, who will always take and rarely if ever give. As far as Scotland etc are concerned... if they want independence they need to have total autonomy and no influence whatever in Westminster. None of this 'we didn't vote for this or that' twisted logic. Rant over. Now all I need is a good rest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 43 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I'm happy with some of the noises coming from Johnson's crew at the moment. Investing in buses, possible mansion tax, no tax cuts for the rich. It's weird times when the Tories win loads of Labour votes, then do things for them that were never mentioned before the election. But if it means getting good things done that Labour had previously been ravaged for suggesting, so be it. I expect the Tories on here will be furious about it though. A sceptic may suggest that they are just getting this stuff in early to help out the people who they know are going to be screwed over by their Brexit, but I don't think they are that clever. They seem to be making it up a day at a time, so it's good news they seem to be helping people out for now. It probably won't last long so let's enjoy it whilst we can. Been thinking something similar myself. Drew the obvious conclusion that there was no social care element in their manifesto because it simply wasn't on the agenda. Now I'm beginning to wonder whether it might have been because he knew it would cost him votes as the mansion tax most certainly would have. There must be true blue rinsers all across the UK absolutely losing it right now. Perhaps this is as good as it gets but something is better than nothing, right? Anyway, sign along with me, sing it loud, sing it proud... So Boris is a lefty, yes Boris is a lefty, la la, la, la, ooh la, la, la, la. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Been thinking something similar myself. Drew the obvious conclusion that there was no social care element in their manifesto because it simply wasn't on the agenda. Now I'm beginning to wonder whether it might have been because he knew it would cost him votes as the mansion tax most certainly would have. There must be true blue rinsers all across the UK absolutely losing it right now. Perhaps this is as good as it gets but something is better than nothing, right? Anyway, sign along with me, sing it loud, sing it proud... So Boris is a lefty, yes Boris is a lefty, la la, la, la, ooh la, la, la, la. Maybe we are heading towards an authoritarian party with leftish/populist economic policies vs a liberally progressive party with more right-wing economics. The more Corbyn/Brexity Labourites join Johnson whilst the centrist Remainers from Tories and Labour join with Lib Dems and SNP. Will certainly shake up the political landscape on this thread, that's for sure. Possibly makes more sense than a nasty Tory party winning by fear, then screwing over the less well off people who voted for them. If Johnson does go this way then he can play the anti-elite card as most businesses and the media will be against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimRam Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Brummie Steve said: Stop HS2....... Waste of time, countryside and at least £105 billion pounds of taxpayers' money. One thing is certain, the "elite" will make a lot of money out of this in the form of meetings, consultations, expenses etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: I'm happy with some of the noises coming from Johnson's crew at the moment. Investing in buses, possible mansion tax, no tax cuts for the rich. It's weird times when the Tories win loads of Labour votes, then do things for them that were never mentioned before the election. But if it means getting good things done that Labour had previously been ravaged for suggesting, so be it. I expect the Tories on here will be furious about it though. A sceptic may suggest that they are just getting this stuff in early to help out the people who they know are going to be screwed over by their Brexit, but I don't think they are that clever. They seem to be making it up a day at a time, so it's good news they seem to be helping people out for now. It probably won't last long so let's enjoy it whilst we can. I am glad if some folks who haven't been to Eton/Harrow and Oxbridge benefit for a while …. but …. Stop overthinking it mate …. it's all about the Boris staying in No. 10, realizing his manifest destiny. I wouldn't be surprised if he is at the point now where he is holding a phone to his head, and practising in the mirror those key conversations he imagines he will have one day ….. "Bertie? Is that you? I need you to organise all the shipping you can, anything over 30 feet, we have to get our boys off those damn Estonian beaches!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, TimRam said: One thing is certain, the "elite" will make a lot of money out of this in the form of meetings, consultations, expenses etc etc Come on now, at the moment they've only got a £106 billion to share out between them. So expect the final build cost to rise significantly before the first train ever pulls into the newly built Curzon.Street station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 11 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: I'm happy with some of the noises coming from Johnson's crew at the moment. Investing in buses, possible mansion tax, no tax cuts for the rich. It's weird times when the Tories win loads of Labour votes, then do things for them that were never mentioned before the election. But if it means getting good things done that Labour had previously been ravaged for suggesting, so be it. I expect the Tories on here will be furious about it though. A sceptic may suggest that they are just getting this stuff in early to help out the people who they know are going to be screwed over by their Brexit, but I don't think they are that clever. They seem to be making it up a day at a time, so it's good news they seem to be helping people out for now. It probably won't last long so let's enjoy it whilst we can. The fact that you think that just goes to show you have your own agenda and often dont read what people are saying. I've seen posts from the people that you would call staunch Tories, and hard right wingers, admitting that they would be behind some of the socialist policies if they can be proven to be financially viable. Us Conservatives arent always as stubborn and heartless as you would have people believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I can't help but feel that the assistance to Flybe is smelling a bit off, right now. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51453196 I get that the government has promises to keep in terms of improving regional connectivity but when Flybe is owned by profitable airlines - and now they are giving up slots at Heathrow, to give to Virgin. It smacks of asset stripping by the owners, just as there is talk of part nationalisation. Not to mention the state aid question and impact on carbon priorities also. I can see this becoming a bit of a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 11 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: A sceptic may suggest that they are just getting this stuff in early to help out the people who they know are going to be screwed over by their Brexit ...even if many of these people voted for Brexit in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: The fact that you think that just goes to show you have your own agenda and often dont read what people are saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 So if Dominic Cummins is to be believed, the people who came up with all these promised new tory policies. Wasn't Johnson and his cabinet but apparently PJ Masks! Good to see the country is finally in safe hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, 1of4 said: So if Dominic Cummins is to be believed, I think if he told me what day it is, I'd have to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 So, HS2 is signed off and a likely £100bn+ bill to show for it. Thoughts?. I'm reminded of Blackadder Goes Forth, when I consider this massive vanity project, to get everyone to London a few minutes quicker.... "Clearly, Field Marshal Haig is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Berlin" I expect that Phase 1 will end up costing more still, followed by the scrapping of phase 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: I think if he told me what day it is, I'd have to check. Yes you along with many more of us wouldn't believe a word Cummins says. The worry is that the person who leads our government does believe what he tells him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: So, HS2 is signed off and a likely £100bn+ bill to show for it. Thoughts?. I'm reminded of Blackadder Goes Forth, when I consider this massive vanity project, to get everyone to London a few minutes quicker.... "Clearly, Field Marshal Haig is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Berlin" I expect that Phase 1 will end up costing more still, followed by the scrapping of phase 2. If it's so great for the country and is not solely aimed at making it easier for London to hoover up even more resources, why can't they build the midlands and northern bits first? Then, if it proves a success, build the rest from Birmingham down to London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: If it's so great for the country and is not solely aimed at making it easier for London to hoover up even more resources, why can't they build the midlands and northern bits first? Then, if it proves a success, build the rest from Birmingham down to London. Exactly! Over 20 years ago I studied for an NVQ level four. I had to be at Euston House, London, for assessments at 1100 am. As this was next to Euston Station I found I could get a cheap day return from Five Ways, Edgbaston, at 0918 and be in the London office with about ten minutes to spare! HS2 might have been a few minutes earlier at most but any time I went North by train I had several changes, paid more and found the service much less reliable. I honestly believe the white elephant that is HS2 will benefit no one and have doubts about any service to Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle etc ever seeing the light of day. It's time to cut losses, swallow pride, and scrap the whole thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: The usual intelligent response... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, 1of4 said: Yes you along with many more of us wouldn't believe a word Cummins says. The worry is that the person who leads our government does believe what he tells him. Just out of interest, what insight into Dominic Cummins career do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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