G STAR RAM Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, 1of4 said: How do you cast a protest vote? Because in any election held in this country you vote for someone. No you dont. I see tactical voting as a protest vote. I mean I voted for 'Get Brexit Done' but beyond Brexit I was not fussed about Johnson, however I would have been fussed about having Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Sunday Telegraph today saying that the Tories are now planning a mansion tax to fund the increase in public spending they promised... Pretty sure I've heard of a mansion tax before and it was considered a bad thing right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 31 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Sunday Telegraph today saying that the Tories are now planning a mansion tax to fund the increase in public spending they promised... Pretty sure I've heard of a mansion tax before and it was considered a bad thing right? Not 'planning', considering. I would expect them to consider everything. Long way from implementing. Nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 37 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Sunday Telegraph today saying that the Tories are now planning a mansion tax to fund the increase in public spending they promised... Pretty sure I've heard of a mansion tax before and it was considered a bad thing right? Mansion tax? Nationalisation? Who's setting the political agenda here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Not 'planning', considering. I would expect them to consider everything. Long way from implementing. Nothing to see here. Nice try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Mansion tax? Nationalisation? Who's setting the political agenda here? Certainly not Corbyn. Maybe Boris is not this ultra right fascist, you lot would have us believe? Maybe the Tories have listened and moved more to the centre and actually want to deliver some things they promised. Looking forward to the free broadband.. Oh wait that was the Loonies wasnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Certainly not Corbyn. Maybe Boris is not this ultra right fascist, you lot would have us believe? Maybe the Tories have listened and moved more to the centre and actually want to deliver some things they promised. Looking forward to the free broadband.. Oh wait that was the Loonies wasnt it? Don't do the 'you lot' thing. I don't like throwing around the word 'fascist'. It tends, in my opinion to a) detract from actual discussion because it's just childish name calling and b] allow actual fascists to get off lightly by hiding amongst more 'respectable' groups. As for Johnson, he has always been on the more liberal wing of the conservative party but he has somewhat dug a hole for himself in terms of the nationalist rhetoric he has spewed out - with 2 main effects: 1) He ends up hanging around with the right of the party and putting them in his cabinet and 2) Moderate people are forced into a position of following or rejecting this. Many of those that follow will hold their noses; many of those that reject will become enemies. Personally, I have never trusted him but even the unscrupulous and brazenly dishonest will sometimes still do good things. I am still waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 43 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Not 'planning', considering. I would expect them to consider everything. Long way from implementing. Nothing to see here. But closer to "implementing" than Labour ever got, so there is still the faint whiff of hypocrisy. Nonetheless, I can't see the Tories wealthy backers letting this one grow legs. As you say - nothing to see here Meanwhile even the Daily Mail seems slightly concerned that Dominic Cummings is taking over government from within https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7973515/Dominic-Cummings-working-time-months-Budget-row-Treasury-deepens.html Good job we got rid of all those unelected bureaucrats in the EU eh? Should be an interesting couple of months ahead with the budget, the reshuffle and the realisation that we only have 9 months left to sort our Brexit deal Meanwhile, all is quiet. No Russia report? No outcome of the misconduct in public office allegations over the money he threw at Jennifer Arcuri, whilst having an affair with her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 The infighting in the Labour Party continues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51432440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 "Private capital tends to become concentrated in a few hands, the result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.” Albert Einstein 1949 I'd be interested in hearing what some of the Tory lads on here think of old Albert's words. Is he right? If so, do you trust the few to act in the best interests of us all? (I presume most of the lefties agree with him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 41 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: I'd be interested in hearing what some of the Tory lads on here think of old Albert's words. I think they've had enough of experts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 12 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: I think they've had enough of experts... I grew up thinking Albert Einstein was a scientist. No harm in passing him off as a political expert though if he agrees with your point though I guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I grew up thinking Albert Einstein was a scientist. No harm in passing him off as a political expert though if he agrees with your point though I guess.. Indeed. Disgraceful cultural appropriation by Albert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I grew up thinking Albert Einstein was a scientist Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 13 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Albert Einstein 1949 I'm not a Tory lad but this analysis is consistent with observed trends in a few societies. The comment above I've pulled out because the language implies that our elected representatives are deliberately selling their Electorate short. Actually I think that the great majority of mps are genuinely concerned about their Electorate and try to do the right thing, but global capital - which can flow freely - trumps all politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Actually I think that the great majority of mps are genuinely concerned about their Electorate and try to do the right thing, but global capital - which can flow freely - trumps all politics. Especially when the global capital starts to freely flow into the pockets of politicians... I think you're right that a great many politicians go into it for the greater good but once you reach a point in your political career where you finally have any influence, then lobbyists gonna lobby I genuinely don't know why lobbying via financial incentives is not illegal. It's just bribery isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Especially when the global capital starts to freely flow into the pockets of politicians... I think you're right that a great many politicians go into it for the greater good but once you reach a point in your political career where you finally have any influence, then lobbyists gonna lobby I genuinely don't know why lobbying via financial incentives is not illegal. It's just bribery isn't it? That's the bigger point...when the holders of the capital see that they can capture the political system and remove/smooth over any irritating impediments to their accumulation of an ever greater share of global resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 16 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: "Private capital tends to become concentrated in a few hands, the result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.” Albert Einstein 1949 I'd be interested in hearing what some of the Tory lads on here think of old Albert's words. Is he right? If so, do you trust the few to act in the best interests of us all? (I presume most of the lefties agree with him). Has it not always been that way? Whether that power be sitting with royals, Ceasers, despots & politicians, the few. They have always controlled what the masses were fed, more so than today. Power will always sit with the few, always has and always will. Even in so called communist societies, where does the real power sit? Do they still control the main sources of information? I doubt that is the case now, certainly in most western countries with the advent of the internet. They control most of it granted but it is easily challenged now. So in essence this is not some visionary insight into the future, rather than a comment of what it was like in 49, pre 49 and will be post 49. The geezer is certainly no Nostradamus is he ? More Russell Grant. Yours, Tory Lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Angry Ram said: Has it not always been that way? Whether that power be sitting with royals, Ceasers, despots & politicians, the few. They have always controlled what the masses were fed, more so than today. Power will always sit with the few, always has and always will. Even in so called communist societies, where does the real power sit? Do they still control the main sources of information? I doubt that is the case now, certainly in most western countries with the advent of the internet. They control most of it granted but it is easily challenged now. So in essence this is not some visionary insight into the future, rather than a comment of what it was like in 49, pre 49 and will be post 49. The geezer is certainly no Nostradamus is he ? More Russell Grant. Yours, Tory Lad. Have you thought about a more appropriate avatar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Angry Ram said: Has it not always been that way? Whether that power be sitting with royals, Ceasers, despots & politicians, the few. They have always controlled what the masses were fed, more so than today. Power will always sit with the few, always has and always will. Even in so called communist societies, where does the real power sit? Do they still control the main sources of information? I doubt that is the case now, certainly in most western countries with the advent of the internet. They control most of it granted but it is easily challenged now. So in essence this is not some visionary insight into the future, rather than a comment of what it was like in 49, pre 49 and will be post 49. The geezer is certainly no Nostradamus is he ? More Russell Grant. Yours, Tory Lad. Agreed its always been this way, probably since hunter gatherers settled in one place, but we could control the worst excesses of capitalism by having a strong public sector imo. It would act like a counterweight. Its the last sentence of Albert's saying that stops us doing just that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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