The Politics Thread 2020

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Not entirely sure what all this 'victim crap' means apart from right wing propaganda, but in terms of the acquittal, the Republicans are basically fine with their president removing foreign aid from another state unless they produce dirt on a political rival. And you know if Biden ends up winning the Democratic nomination, then Trump will spend the whole time smearing him on dirt he had hoped Ukraine would have provided/invented.

If I may be so bold to speak on behalf of 'the left', I'm having trouble dealing with the new normal of Trump/Johnson, especially as it's been so rapid. I feel they are in the process of destroying Western democracy and it's difficult to know how to stop them.

It's hard to fight them on policy alone as a lot of what they claim to offer is popular, but if the policies are good, why all the ludicrous, obvious lies and anti-democratic actions like banning media and not been interviewed.

I find the debates on here with @Norman, @maxjam, @Angry Ram and @G STAR RAM both fascinating and depressing as you are all intelligent and are correct that the left is not offering very good alternatives at the moment.

But I'm not sure that the Tory Party/GOP been overrun with liars and their enablers is great for long term peace and prosperity. It seems like too great a price to pay for the so-called culture wars that exist mostly on social media, fuelled by fake news, lies and fear of the other.

Hopefully the media walk out the other day signals the start of democracy's fight back as political journalists on both sides united. These people have higher ideals than the columnists paid to be controversial, let alone unregulated peddlers of lies online.

In this world, people like Peter Oborne are vital. A traditional Conservative journalist who is leading the fight back.

I just checked his twitter feed for an example and this one is very apt. And scary.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1223579431400329216

 

The left has lost touch with the common man and women. They need to look inwardly at themselves and ask themselves why has the West got two of arguably the worst leaders ever to gain a popular vote.. Its not the right per say, it’s not so much the policies of the left.. Even myself who gets labelled as far right on occasion, like some policies of the left.. I have been a Labour voter before but right here, right now, not a ducking chance. The Labour leadership need to ask themselves, how did I turn Angry into Mussolini.. They are still not addressing that.. Like I said it’s not the policies so much, it’s this whole, liberal left wing political correctness where we now have minority groups dictating for the masses. Acceptable pronouns for example, this sort of poo, just winds up the majority.. 

I could go on with examples, the Labour leadership contest just confirms that lesson have not been heard. So be it, enjoy opposition.. Mr Average, is now not comfortable having a conversation about anything anymore as the loony lefties, in any  situation, will go all righteous and indignation will be everywhere..What happened to normal disagreement without judgement? That’s you lot I’m afraid, you only have to read certain posters on here.. I despair really, the excuses for the grooming gangs for example.. 

I have spoken for myself here but it maybe that the last election, that it appears that it may well be a feeling others have..

 

Regarding the government and the press. That really peed me off. We really don’t want to go down that particular road like the US.. This was created by CNN and Acosta in particular.. I can see why Trump went straight to Twitter to have his voice, he was never going to get a fair hearing on certain media outlets.. Stroke of genius really, but another reason to hate some parts of social media.

Having said that, the press have a part to play here.. The press pack have become very aggressive in their interview style. Andrew Neill, Morgan etc.. I hate this, it’s all about setting traps and trying to humiliate.. That’s not journalism for me.. I want to hear about the policies, not what Diane Abbott said 2010.. Ffs, times change and circumstances change, opinions on hwhat w to tackle a problem will change. When the press change this approach and I hope they do soon, I don’t really blame politicians from avoiding these situations, it’s really a no win scenario for them. Perhaps Corbyn and the like, always slow on the uptake, missed a trick here.. Again.. They looked fools.. Why set yourself up to fail. I personally thought Johnson played a blinder here but I don’t want it to continue..

So in essence my advice for the left is, drop the namby pamby stuff, most of the electorate don’t give a poo. Focus on you policies, front up a centralist candidate as the country is not ready for the radical left.. Get into power and then move from there.. In 20 years, when X gen and Millennials become the majority, those views might have a better ground support..  However what you do tend to see, is that as people get older and life experiences and reality kick in, they tend to move to the right..

Just my thoughts..

[G STAR RAM]

42 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

The left has lost touch with the common man and women. They need to look inwardly at themselves and ask themselves why has the West got two of arguably the worst leaders ever to gain a popular vote.. Its not the right per say, it’s not so much the policies of the left.. Even myself who gets labelled as far right on occasion, like some policies of the left.. I have been a Labour voter before but right here, right now, not a ducking chance. The Labour leadership need to ask themselves, how did I turn Angry into Mussolini.. They are still not addressing that.. Like I said it’s not the policies so much, it’s this whole, liberal left wing political correctness where we now have minority groups dictating for the masses. Acceptable pronouns for example, this sort of poo, just winds up the majority.. 

I could go on with examples, the Labour leadership contest just confirms that lesson have not been heard. So be it, enjoy opposition.. Mr Average, is now not comfortable having a conversation about anything anymore as the loony lefties, in any  situation, will go all righteous and indignation will be everywhere..What happened to normal disagreement without judgement? That’s you lot I’m afraid, you only have to read certain posters on here.. I despair really, the excuses for the grooming gangs for example.. 

I have spoken for myself here but it maybe that the last election, that it appears that it may well be a feeling others have..

 

Regarding the government and the press. That really peed me off. We really don’t want to go down that particular road like the US.. This was created by CNN and Acosta in particular.. I can see why Trump went straight to Twitter to have his voice, he was never going to get a fair hearing on certain media outlets.. Stroke of genius really, but another reason to hate some parts of social media.

Having said that, the press have a part to play here.. The press pack have become very aggressive in their interview style. Andrew Neill, Morgan etc.. I hate this, it’s all about setting traps and trying to humiliate.. That’s not journalism for me.. I want to hear about the policies, not what Diane Abbott said 2010.. Ffs, times change and circumstances change, opinions on hwhat w to tackle a problem will change. When the press change this approach and I hope they do soon, I don’t really blame politicians from avoiding these situations, it’s really a no win scenario for them. Perhaps Corbyn and the like, always slow on the uptake, missed a trick here.. Again.. They looked fools.. Why set yourself up to fail. I personally thought Johnson played a blinder here but I don’t want it to continue..

So in essence my advice for the left is, drop the namby pamby stuff, most of the electorate don’t give a poo. Focus on you policies, front up a centralist candidate as the country is not ready for the radical left.. Get into power and then move from there.. In 20 years, when X gen and Millennials become the majority, those views might have a better ground support..  However what you do tend to see, is that as people get older and life experiences and reality kick in, they tend to move to the right..

Just my thoughts..

Excellent post that sums up my thoughts too.

Do the left really think I was desperate to vote for a buffoon like Johnson?

No I wasn't, but there was no alternative. 

Fair play to him though, he delivered on his promise and so far I would say he has heard the message delivered at the ballot box, loud and clear.

Like you say though, people will be more interested in what he did last night with his girlfriend and pretending that they are experts on Dominic Cummings by regurgitating something they read in a newspaper column. 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

The left has lost touch with the common man and women. They need to look inwardly at themselves and ask themselves why has the West got two of arguably the worst leaders ever to gain a popular vote.. Its not the right per say, it’s not so much the policies of the left.. Even myself who gets labelled as far right on occasion, like some policies of the left.. I have been a Labour voter before but right here, right now, not a ducking chance. The Labour leadership need to ask themselves, how did I turn Angry into Mussolini.. They are still not addressing that.. Like I said it’s not the policies so much, it’s this whole, liberal left wing political correctness where we now have minority groups dictating for the masses. Acceptable pronouns for example, this sort of poo, just winds up the majority.. 

I could go on with examples, the Labour leadership contest just confirms that lesson have not been heard. So be it, enjoy opposition.. Mr Average, is now not comfortable having a conversation about anything anymore as the loony lefties, in any  situation, will go all righteous and indignation will be everywhere..What happened to normal disagreement without judgement? That’s you lot I’m afraid, you only have to read certain posters on here.. I despair really, the excuses for the grooming gangs for example.. 

I have spoken for myself here but it maybe that the last election, that it appears that it may well be a feeling others have..

 

Regarding the government and the press. That really peed me off. We really don’t want to go down that particular road like the US.. This was created by CNN and Acosta in particular.. I can see why Trump went straight to Twitter to have his voice, he was never going to get a fair hearing on certain media outlets.. Stroke of genius really, but another reason to hate some parts of social media.

Having said that, the press have a part to play here.. The press pack have become very aggressive in their interview style. Andrew Neill, Morgan etc.. I hate this, it’s all about setting traps and trying to humiliate.. That’s not journalism for me.. I want to hear about the policies, not what Diane Abbott said 2010.. Ffs, times change and circumstances change, opinions on hwhat w to tackle a problem will change. When the press change this approach and I hope they do soon, I don’t really blame politicians from avoiding these situations, it’s really a no win scenario for them. Perhaps Corbyn and the like, always slow on the uptake, missed a trick here.. Again.. They looked fools.. Why set yourself up to fail. I personally thought Johnson played a blinder here but I don’t want it to continue..

So in essence my advice for the left is, drop the namby pamby stuff, most of the electorate don’t give a poo. Focus on you policies, front up a centralist candidate as the country is not ready for the radical left.. Get into power and then move from there.. In 20 years, when X gen and Millennials become the majority, those views might have a better ground support..  However what you do tend to see, is that as people get older and life experiences and reality kick in, they tend to move to the right..

Just my thoughts..

Great post and shows that the nazis and commies on here have lots more in common than differences.

My only major argument is with the political correctness/culture war type stuff.

I just do not see it. As a straight, white middle age male, I can honestly say it has never negatively impacted my life in any way. Maybe I've just been lucky?

I still thinks mostly exists within the social media world and the people who get worked up with it are found there.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

We left the EU last Friday night at 11pm.

Brexit was a vote on whether we remained or left the EU.

Brexit has been delivered.

Now the Government can get on with sorting all of the post Brexit matters and ultimately that is what they will be judged on.

BJ has delivered on his promise of getting Brexit done though, end of.

So if I order a well done steak I'd expect it cooked, dark and ready to eat on the table.

Your well done steak is a farmer is thinking of buying a patch of land to de-forest and raise cattle!

[Angry Ram]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Great post and shows that the nazis and commies on here have lots more in common than differences.

My only major argument is with the political correctness/culture war type stuff.

I just do not see it. As a straight, white middle age male, I can honestly say it has never negatively impacted my life in any way. Maybe I've just been lucky?

I still thinks mostly exists within the social media world and the people who get worked up with it are found there.

And there in lies the problem.. You guys on the left are missing the issue.. What you cannot see, is the the problem..

[Stive Pesley]

8 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

And there in lies the problem.. You guys on the left are missing the issue.. What you cannot see, is the the problem..

I guess we all have our blind spots. For example you talk about the problem being "loony lefties being all righteous and indignant" in the midst of what comes across as a pretty righteous and indignant post about how political correctness is runining everything.

Yes there are people on the left who are constantly calling out perceived injustices - and then that in turn (as you put it) "winds people up" - and then the vicious circle begins. With both sides blind to the fact that they are as much a part of the problem

 

[Angry Ram]

50 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I guess we all have our blind spots. For example you talk about the problem being "loony lefties being all righteous and indignant" in the midst of what comes across as a pretty righteous and indignant post about how political correctness is runining everything.

Yes there are people on the left who are constantly calling out perceived injustices - and then that in turn (as you put it) "winds people up" - and then the vicious circle begins. With both sides blind to the fact that they are as much a part of the problem

 

You just don't get it do you... It's not what one person thinks, a single person does not dictate how an election will pan out. However, the majority seem to agree that the 'loony left' are a problem. That seems to be a fact and it's up to the 'loony left' to appeal to the majority. They can keep on this course, whoopie do. Opposition will be your position. Until Labour deal with this, all the potential good is lost and wasted. I don't care either way but to ignore what the majority want seems to be a strange approach. I guess you can always tell me that I am stupid and you know whats best for me.. Hay ho, heard it all before. 

[Uptherams]

The USA and Trump personifies the issue with the mainstream left having been hijacked. 

Their economy goes from strength to strength and their citizens are reaping the rewards through record employment levels and pumped up pension schemes. 

They have been effective at eradicating terrorist organisations and have yet to start/enter/declare a war. 

Increased domestic fossil fuel production to prevent issues with unstable nations and dictatorships. 

Immigration into the US is still high, fair and just.

The rights of their citizens are being upheld. 

They are world leaders when it comes to market solutions for pollution and climate change and have signed up to the 1 trillion tree initiative. 

Yet they make out he's doing an awful job and he will be the death of us all, etc. ?

 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

So if I order a well done steak I'd expect it cooked, dark and ready to eat on the table.

Your well done steak is a farmer is thinking of buying a patch of land to de-forest and raise cattle!

I remember going to the ballot box.

The Referendum had 2 answers.

None of them had anything about trade deals etc 

The outcome of the Referendum has finally been acted upon. 

[GboroRam]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

We left the EU last Friday night at 11pm.

Brexit was a vote on whether we remained or left the EU.

Brexit has been delivered.

Now the Government can get on with sorting all of the post Brexit matters and ultimately that is what they will be judged on.

BJ has delivered on his promise of getting Brexit done though, end of.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/boris-johnson-enjoys-political-honeymoon-but-many-still-unconvinced-hes-got-brexit-done-exclusive-poll-reveals/ar-BBZKECG?ocid=spartanntp

"Boris Johnson is enjoying a political honeymoon – yet fewer than one in six people think he has fully managed to “get Brexit done”."

[Uptherams]

29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I remember going to the ballot box.

The Referendum had 2 answers.

None of them had anything about trade deals etc 

The outcome of the Referendum has finally been acted upon. 

Good points. Trade with the EU should be and with every passing day, is, being treated like trade with any other bloc or nation. Those who never wanted to leave the EU are trying to marry the two together. Some Labour figures still arguing now we must stay in the custom union and single market, to bemused looks and responses from everyone within the political sphere. It's over. 

[WhiteHorseRam]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/boris-johnson-enjoys-political-honeymoon-but-many-still-unconvinced-hes-got-brexit-done-exclusive-poll-reveals/ar-BBZKECG?ocid=spartanntp

"Boris Johnson is enjoying a political honeymoon – yet fewer than one in six people think he has fully managed to “get Brexit done”."

It all belongs to him now …. all that fiddly complexity and relationships within relationships within agendas …… oooooh tricky?

 

As far as the Donald impeachment goes … can't help thinking this episode is going to be turned into a Hollywood blockbuster at some point … when all the memoir books are pouring out

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/boris-johnson-enjoys-political-honeymoon-but-many-still-unconvinced-hes-got-brexit-done-exclusive-poll-reveals/ar-BBZKECG?ocid=spartanntp

"Boris Johnson is enjoying a political honeymoon – yet fewer than one in six people think he has fully managed to “get Brexit done”."

I couldn't care less what 5 in 6 people think.

I know what was on the ballot paper and we left the EU last Friday.

[Srg]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I couldn't care less what 5 in 6 people think.

I know what was on the ballot paper and we left the EU last Friday.

Are any of these you?

[WhiteHorseRam]

2 minutes ago, Srg said:

Are any of these you?

I wonder what they are all doing this afternoon?

[King Kevin]

9 minutes ago, Srg said:

Are any of these you?

Nice to see the Union Flag the right way up.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

Are any of these you?

Only the Brits know how to properly celebrate diversity and inclusion.......?

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

Are any of these you?

No 

[BriggRam]

2 hours ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

I wonder what they are all doing this afternoon?

Probably working........can’t wait for some snowflake to report this post and it get removed 

[BriggRam]

2 hours ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

I wonder what they are all doing this afternoon?

I wonder what this poohouse is doing this afternoon