Stive Pesley Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: The terrorist event got a lot more coverage than Johnson trying to limit the press presence at his briefing. In fact I would say Johnson has got off very, very lightly on this one so to suggest otherwise is wide of the mark in my opinion. Hasn't he got off lightly on the terrorist front too? That's now two terrorists in the space of a couple of months who have left prison and almost immediately offended again. This is all happening under the Tory government. BJ now wanting to pass emergency laws to stop it happening again, but are they not culpable for what has already happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Hasn't he got off lightly on the terrorist front too? That's now two terrorists in the space of a couple of months who have left prison and almost immediately offended again. This is all happening under the Tory government. BJ now wanting to pass emergency laws to stop it happening again, but are they not culpable for what has already happened? Thank goodness its not a Labour government 'our friends' wouldn't even be in prison. Joking apart though, yes the government should be taken to task on this. Will be interesting to see who supports Johnsons plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Hasn't he got off lightly on the terrorist front too? That's now two terrorists in the space of a couple of months who have left prison and almost immediately offended again. This is all happening under the Tory government. BJ now wanting to pass emergency laws to stop it happening again, but are they not culpable for what has already happened? He was being tracked. That's how they shot him so quickly. I currently spend most of my days in the presence of a terrorist mastermind. Polite, courteous, engaging....... Mass murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Norman said: He was being tracked. That's how they shot him so quickly. I currently spend most of my days in the presence of a terrorist mastermind. Polite, courteous, engaging....... Mass murderer. I think you need to post their DCFCFans username so we can all understand who you are dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Norman said: He was being tracked. That's how they shot him so quickly. I currently spend most of my days in the presence of a terrorist mastermind. Polite, courteous, engaging....... Mass murderer. It must be difficult. I know nothing of the process of early release. Are the people in day-to-day contact with the prisoner - prison guards etc - consulted on the suitability for early release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said: It must be difficult. I know nothing of the process of early release. Are the people in day-to-day contact with the prisoner - prison guards etc - consulted on the suitability for early release? Ultimately you can keep your eye on someone as closely as possible but if they decide to grab a knife and run in to the street and start stabbing people you can only respond so quickly. Anyone who knows more about this please correct me if I am wrong, but longer prison terms probably wont solve the problem. These people are radicalised and until you can begin to undo that process then this will always be a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Just now, AndyinLiverpool said: It must be difficult. I know nothing of the process of early release. Are the people in day-to-day contact with the prisoner - prison guards etc - consulted on the suitability for early release? We have a direct say in terms of their behaviour. But it's down to an independant parole board. Human Rights determine when they are eligible for that, and how long before they are eligible again if refused the first time. You can do all the rehabilitation you want. But I'd be more than capable of pretending to be a Forest fan for 10 years, learn their history, be polite, respectful, attend courses, say I know longer love Derby.... And what can the parole board do? Nothing. My Human Rights determine I can be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: Ultimately you can keep your eye on someone as closely as possible but if they decide to grab a knife and run in to the street and start stabbing people you can only respond so quickly. Anyone who knows more about this please correct me if I am wrong, but longer prison terms probably wont solve the problem. These people are radicalised and until you can begin to undo that process then this will always be a risk. You're right. You don't wake up a terrorist. It's a long process determined by a lot of different factors to get you to that point. But the problem is, how do know you've fully rehabilitated someone until they are released? It's so difficult. You can't just blame the Prime Minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Personally I think a good start would be sticking the actual sentence handed out. If someone gets 10 years in prison, make them serve 10 years in prison, not release them after 5 years because they havent stabbed or blown someone up whilst they have been inside. Secondly, if it is becoming apparent that terrorists are becoming more radicalised whilst inside, keep them in solitary confinement. I really couldn't give two hoots about their human rights, they are normally in prison because they have tried or planned to kill innocent people, at that point in time they lose their basic human rights as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, Norman said: You're right. You don't wake up a terrorist. It's a long process determined by a lot of different factors to get you to that point. But the problem is, how do know you've fully rehabilitated someone until they are released? It's so difficult. You can't just blame the Prime Minister. Agreed - and I'm sorry if my post came across as a simple "it's BJs fault" type argument. It is really difficult, my point was just that the Tories have been grappling with the problem for 10 years since they scrapped the use of control orders. Clearly they haven't found a solution yet and if anything it appears to be worse now. Could just be coincidence/bad timing I know. It's a counter-intuitive situation though - as taking radicalised people and locking them up is entirely likely to make them even more radicalised against the state that has incarcerated them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Give them life in a prison that only holds other terrorists and let them out for their funeral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Personally I think a good start would be sticking the actual sentence handed out. If someone gets 10 years in prison, make them serve 10 years in prison, not release them after 5 years because they havent stabbed or blown someone up whilst they have been inside. Secondly, if it is becoming apparent that terrorists are becoming more radicalised whilst inside, keep them in solitary confinement. I really couldn't give two hoots about their human rights, they are normally in prison because they have tried or planned to kill innocent people, at that point in time they lose their basic human rights as far as I am concerned. Nobody should lose their basic human rights in our society, if they do then we are no better than the societies we criticise for their human rights abuses. I don't know what the solution is, especially given that there wont be unlimited resources available to tackle it. What I am sure of is that if we want to retain even a shred of the moral high ground in this sort of debate then we cannot simply disregard human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, ossieram said: Give them life in a prison that only holds other terrorists and let them out for their funeral. Bacon for breakfast, ham sandwiches for dinner and gammon or sausage for tea...may help speed the process along. PS - I know it's not Islamic terrorists before anyone takes this post too seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: Nobody should lose their basic human rights in our society, if they do then we are no better than the societies we criticise for their human rights abuses. I don't know what the solution is, especially given that there wont be unlimited resources available to tackle it. What I am sure of is that if we want to retain even a shred of the moral high ground in this sort of debate then we cannot simply disregard human rights. Disagree. When you fail to behave like a human then why should you be granted human rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 https://news.sky.com/story/proposed-anti-terror-laws-could-be-challenged-in-the-courts-says-ex-reviewer-of-terrorism-legislation-11925864 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, maxjam said: https://news.sky.com/story/proposed-anti-terror-laws-could-be-challenged-in-the-courts-says-ex-reviewer-of-terrorism-legislation-11925864 Yet another terrorist that it turns out was a lovely boy! After hearing about the attack his mother feared it was him. On this basis, I am assuming she had concerns prior to the attack and reported these to the relevant authorities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: Nobody should lose their basic human rights in our society, if they do then we are no better than the societies we criticise for their human rights abuses. I don't know what the solution is, especially given that there wont be unlimited resources available to tackle it. What I am sure of is that if we want to retain even a shred of the moral high ground in this sort of debate then we cannot simply disregard human rights. You're right. But it's that old 'what about the victim's Human Rights' argument I just can't help but ignore. Farr too complicated a subject for me to solve witnessing it first hand. Wouldn't want the responsibility or job of making the tough decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Bacon for breakfast, ham sandwiches for dinner and gammon or sausage for tea...may help speed the process along. PS - I know it's not Islamic terrorists before anyone takes this post too seriously... The only problem with this is if you take away everything, they no longer care about anything. Which endangers those looking after them. I get assaulted enough as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 37 minutes ago, ossieram said: Give them life in a prison that only holds other terrorists and let them out for their funeral. Therein lies the problem. If they are terrorists who have actually murdered people, then they are murderers and whole life tariffs can, and will be applied accordingly Most people held in our prisons for "terrorist offences" are people who have not actually carried out any attacks or harmed anyone - just that they have been caught trying to or caught thinking about it The Streatham attacker for example was in prison for "possessing documents". If you want to start throwing away the key for people who have only started to think about stuff then that's a slippery slope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Norman said: The only problem with this is if you take away everything, they no longer care about anything. Which endangers those looking after them. I get assaulted enough as it is. Yes, the post was a bit tongue in cheek. I do have a bit of insight into this as 2 of my mates have been imprisoned and the brother of another mate committed suicide in prison. Like you say, solutions are not as easy to find as you would think they should be. It's why I see blaming the Government as a pointless attack, after all of this time we, as a civilisation, have failed to create fail safe ways of rehabilitating large numbers of prisoners, that falls on us as a society, not on politicians as Conservatives or Labour, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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