King Kevin Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Eddie said: It was always a trade-off between the economy and lives. We valued the first higher than other countries did, and the second lower. And that, good sir, is why we will always take opposite sides in this debate. Not sure that's @Norman decision eddie and I don't think he's advocating economy over lives none of us are. It's a fine judgement call I wouldn't want to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, Norman said: The evidence suggest that the virus is weakening, which is what most do. Apart from Spanish flu (am I allowed to say that) My prediction is that it will be gone before human vaccination testing begins. It didn't originate in Spain by all accounts.....so using your own strict geographical rules for naming viruses you probably shouldn't ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 hours ago, GboroRam said: The one thing that I take from it all is - what a horrible, broken country the US is. A large minority feel so disenfranchised that they will riot and fight on the streets, and a segment of the population feel threatened by any questioning of the status quo. Even a sportsman taking a knee is seen as unacceptable behaviour - well, they aren't kneeling now. A couple of things after living here for 14 years. I don't think the US is any more divided than the UK. Brexit was as divisive as anything I have seen over here prior to Trump. However, the Police have got away with systemic racism for years and every time something happens, they riot. It last happened in 2014 in Ferguson. BUT, when that happens in the UK such as 2011 when the cops shot the guy in Tottenham, the exact same thing happens, people riot. It happened in Brixton in the early 80s and again at Broadwater Farm some time in the 80s when a PC Blakelock (I think) after local rioted.. The reality is, cops in the UK haven't been armed to the teeth like they are over here and tend not to shoot that many unarmed people. So yeh, I agree that the Police over here is a sorry state of affairs. But there's been events close to riots in the UK - certainly looting and smashing things up - after England losing big games. That doesn't happen here. And to the best of my knowledge nobody has burned down a 5G tower over here, and violent crime is falling in the major cities at the same time it's going up in London. As for Kaepernick taking a knee - well, Trump saw it as unacceptable. Prior to then, it was not that big of a deal. But then what happened is the right started a misinformation campaign saying that Kaepernick was demonstrating against the Military. Even though it wasn't true, that did turn a lot of people against him no matter how many times he said he was demonstrating against Police abuse and violence. I think both countries are equally broken quite honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Angry Ram said: No.. Looting is a criminal act pure and simple that in no way should hide behind other frustrations. It's not an excuse, it's a crime. Pure and simple. Funny because I was quoting the US warmonger Donald Rumsfeld from 2003 when he was justifying the Iraqi people looting after the US "liberated" them https://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/04/11/sprj.irq.pentagon/ His words ring true now - when you've lived under an oppressive regime for so long, that frustration will eventually spill out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Highgate said: It didn't originate in Spain by all accounts.....so using your own strict geographical rules for naming viruses you probably shouldn't ? Well, no. Texan ranch wasn't, it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Norman said: Well, no. Texan ranch wasn't, it? I read Kansas had the first known case...but I guess nobody knows for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: I think both countries are equally broken quite honestly. I think the republican heavy support for the police is more scary than anything I have seen in the UK. Coupled with the easy access to guns, and the far higher rate of police incidents, I know which country I would rather be black in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, Eddie said: No, he isn't, but I get the impression that he feels that the government is largely right, and I think they are largely wrong. Neither of us are in a position to make decisions, but it's pretty obvious which one of us is paying attention to the science and which one of us is completely ignoring it. I'm not allowed to say what I feel about this... other than he reads the Daily Mail. A number of virologists have described the findings from the clinician in Italy as 'claptrap' and 'bullsh**', but because I don't want the ban which is hanging over my head to be enacted just yet, I will describe the report as 'premature'. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8376105/Is-Covid-19-really-potent.html I think that it will save more lives in the long run the way things have panned out. Accidental, fortunate or planned. Austerity led to the early loss of how many in 9 years? We might be on the brink of the worst recession ever. 100,000's potentially losing lives due to future lack of funding, present delays in cancer treatment and other ailments. I support us coming out of lockdown fully. Because I care about lives. And I feel this is the best way to prevent a lot more losses. But it's only my opinion As for the sniping.....the ban trigger is being squeezed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 26 minutes ago, Highgate said: I read Kansas had the first known case...but I guess nobody knows for sure. I cannot accept your opinion as you are Americancentric ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 20 minutes ago, Norman said: I think that it will save more lives in the long run the way things have panned out. Accidental, fortunate or planned. Austerity led to the early loss of how many in 9 years? We might be on the brink of the worst recession ever. 100,000's potentially losing lives due to future lack of funding, present delays in cancer treatment and other ailments. I support us coming out of lockdown fully. Because I care about lives. And I feel this is the best way to prevent a lot more losses. But it's only my opinion As for the sniping.....the ban trigger is being squeezed. I'm a reformed character, so I'm going to hope that your Italian doctor is 100% correct and pretty well every virologist is wrong, but until that point is reached, I shall continue to chant one mantra, and one mantra only... Oh, sorry. This one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, Eddie said: I'm a reformed character, so I'm going to hope that your Italian doctor is 100% correct and pretty well every virologist is wrong, but until that point is reached, I shall continue to chant one mantra, and one mantra only... Oh, sorry. This one... Are you sure that's not after beer review? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 What's happening in America? I know that Trump has a hatred of the press. But the deliberate targeting of the press by the police is disgusting. People will start thinking they have been ordered to do so, in an attempt to suppress press reporting. The looting and destruction of property is wrong but it shouldn't be used as a justification for police forces across the USA to attack groups of mostly peaceful protesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Funny because I was quoting the US warmonger Donald Rumsfeld from 2003 when he was justifying the Iraqi people looting after the US "liberated" them https://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/04/11/sprj.irq.pentagon/ His words ring true now - when you've lived under an oppressive regime for so long, that frustration will eventually spill out So the USA is an oppressive regime? On second thoughts don’t answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Things apparently taking a very dark turn in the US right now. Trump is demanding that the police take a 'much tougher' stance on the protests and over 100 reports under investigation whereby US press have been targeted, merely for covering the unrest. Given batons and rubber bullets have already been widely used, I'm not sure how 'much tougher' the police can be without just resorting to outright violence and brutality. And if they do, I suspect the backlash would be unprecedented. It's a powder keg right now and setting aside the pandemic for a moment and not ignoring we have issues of our own, I'm proud that by and large we are mainly a diverse and tolerant country, especially in comparison to Trump's America. Reports are here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52880970 Dozens of journalists covering anti-racism protests that have rocked the US have reported being targeted by security forces using tear gas, rubber bullets and pepper spray. In many cases, they said it was despite showing clear press credentials. And here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-52876499 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: So the USA is an oppressive regime? On second thoughts don’t answer. I don't know, ask George Floyd. Oh, no, you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 52 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: So the USA is an oppressive regime? On second thoughts don’t answer. 15 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't know, ask George Floyd. Oh, no, you can't. I can see this is going to go on for a little while. For Angry's point, I think 'oppressive regime' is an inaccurate when the likes of China are running literal concentration camps, Saudi Arabia have only just let women drive, etc. Relative to a lot of countries, the USA is extremely libertarian. But to Gboro's, Schtive's, etc's point, that doesn't mean it can't be criticised. It's quite clear that, on average, it's easier being a white person in America (and every other Western country) than it is to be a person of any other colour. It might be difficult to accept that we're in a lucky position, but it's true. This is manifested everywhere: how people are able to walk down the street, who gets jobs interviews, how people are treated by the police, how people are treated by the POTUS, etc. As always, I think both sides will bring forward valid points but I don't see anyone coming to a consensus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 8 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: This weekend was ridiculous. It seemed utterly idiotic to make the announcement on a Friday that there would be new relaxed lockdown rules from Monday. It would appear that most people just heard that as "immediately" Is this just incompetence or carefully calculated (so that when the R numer goes back up they blame the great unwashed for not adhering to the rules)? They got a Cuming plan. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Things apparently taking a very dark turn in the US right now. Trump is demanding that the police take a 'much tougher' stance on the protests and over 100 reports under investigation whereby US press have been targeted, merely for covering the unrest. Given batons and rubber bullets have already been widely used, I'm not sure how 'much tougher' the police can be without just resorting to outright violence and brutality. And if they do, I suspect the backlash would be unprecedented. It's a powder keg right now and setting aside the pandemic for a moment and not ignoring we have issues of our own, I'm proud that by and large we are mainly a diverse and tolerant country, especially in comparison to Trump's America. Reports are here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52880970 Dozens of journalists covering anti-racism protests that have rocked the US have reported being targeted by security forces using tear gas, rubber bullets and pepper spray. In many cases, they said it was despite showing clear press credentials. And here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-52876499 There were a great many who thought Trump might start a war, and its now looking like it might be a civil war. Troubling times indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 29 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't know, ask George Floyd. Oh, no, you can't. Ridiculous post.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, i-Ram said: There were a great many who thought Trump might start a war, and its now looking like it might be a civil war. Troubling times indeed. At times I wonder if he argues with his own shadow. To be so vitriolic, obnoxious and on edge 24/7 is an achievement (of some sort) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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