Eddie Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, i-Ram said: @Eddie, you may perhaps be slipping into political dialogue again. Not sure, but I thought I should highlight just in case that @GboroRam is on duty today. If the moderators wish to move it, they can, but in this instance, I would like to know why what I said is more relevant to the politics thread than the coronavirus thread? We exist, we are a problem (I know that I am for some on here). Why now? Is the table of deaths political, or relevant to the coronavirus? Is what the police are saying with respect to people suddenly flocking en-masse to public places political or perhaps relevant to the coronavirus? Or is it because I used the 'J' and 'C' words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Also, the table I reproduced refers to Friday, not Saturday. Apologies for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11748383/dominic-cummings-witnesses-lockdown/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Love the way you claim to know categorically everybody else's beliefs and motivations. QUite revealing. And noticeably still no explanation as to the anti-Tory Torys or the pro-leave anti-Brexiters. Desperate. Is calling it disingenuous claiming to categorically knowing everyone's beliefs and motivations? I don't want to get bogged down with semantics but given that there is little argument anymore that the media pile on wasn't politically motivated it was more a statement of fact, As for the anti-Tory Tories. I haven't checked who the 60 were tbh but did read that about 20 were remainers and about 20 had only voiced concerns about Cummings conduct, which leaves us with 20 that I cba to check tbh - its no different to the backbenchers that disagreed with Corbyn etc you always get some dissenting voices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-30/labour-frontbencher-no-longer-in-role-after-lockdown-breach-reports/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11748383/dominic-cummings-witnesses-lockdown/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: In your opinion old chap. A timely reminder that in fact, you only speak for yourself. And as an aside, from @Eddie 's post on the CV thread, as you seem to have trouble understanding what many folk are actually concerned about... Deaths yesterday across Europe: Spain 2 Italy 87 Germany 24 France 52 Turkey 28 Belgium 42 Sweden 84 Portugal 14 Ireland 6 Poland 13 Romania 13 Hungary 8 Netherlands 28 UK 324 Hmmmmm.... Not sure what you're trying to say tbh. Multiple factors go into those figures. I'm sure in the fullness of time there will be investigations into how well or not the government did and there will be a reckoning. Doesn't detract from the fact that we can't afford to be on lockdown forever and the numbers dying under 40 with no pre-existing conditions is tiny - significant numbers can go back to work, its less about the Tory deflecting from recent bad press and more about getting the economy moving again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 51 minutes ago, maxjam said: those of us that saw the obvious anti-Tory anti-Brexit pile on I'd say this is a pretty 'categorical' example of you assuming once again to know more than you actually do... old chap ? Frankly I find it quite hilarious to read your posts about how others are disingenuous while you pump out this kind of rubbish day in, day out. 10 minutes ago, maxjam said: As for the anti-Tory Tories. I haven't checked who the 60 were tbh but did read that about 20 were remainers and about 20 had only voiced concerns about Cummings conduct, which leaves us with 20 that I cba to check tbh - its not different to the backbenchers that disagreed with Corbyn etc you always get some dissenting voices. A suitably fluffy response. You check away old chap. There's an interesting article in the Guardian today that you may wish to have a read of before venturing your next opinion dressed as fact. All this aside, it's a lovely day so I'm off to the beach with the other disingenuous proles. The floor is yours ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 36 minutes ago, Eddie said: Yes. I posted it last light, and I am delighted that I have now been given the choice to make my own decisions again, albeit once a day only. I would actually like to know the reasoning behind this decision being taken now, when medical advice was that we were to continue sheltering until June 30. Why is it suddenly 'safer' now than it was 3 weeks ago? Is it likely that Cummings broke the lockdown irrevocably, and Johnson has taken this course of action now purely and simply as a deflection tactic to quell the anger of those of us who have been locked up completely, an awful lot of whom are traditional Tory voters? After all, the elderly are far more likely to vote Conservative than for any other party. When Johnson said, just two (or was it 3 or 4) days ago, that we were to remain locked up when answering a question from a young lady frustrated at being perceived as somebody who was to be shut away, unheard and ignored, there was an outpouring of anger aimed in his direction from people in a similar situation. Unlike most who post on here, I am in that category, and so some of the websites I visit are for people who are old, have certain medical conditions etc. The rage was palpable. I myself was utterly furious, seeing an inevitable consequence in his words that there was to be no end to our lockdown. But there is now. I had steeled myself, was hoping that I could make it until the end of June before I emerged, blinking into the sunlight, but Johnson seemed to be saying on Thursday (or was it Wednesday?) "Good news, everyone (not you and your kind, Eddie) - have a barbecue with a couple of mates, go shopping (as you were, Eddie), go for a walk, go to the park, get the old surfboard out (lock and bar your bloody door, Eddie, there is a scary virus out there and it's got your name on it)" - and I was angry, livid, spitting teeth at it all. I received a phone call and a text from the NHS on Friday urging me to remain sheltering in place. Then, suddenly, at 11:00 pm last night, everything changed without any warning. Cummings effectively single-handedly broke the lockdown in England. People are now using it as an excuse (this was stated yesterday by various police forces, and they are hearing it more and more as an excuse for people's behaviour). There will, now, be an inevitable increase in the number of cases, brought about directly because the general relaxation is 'too much, too soon' (witness the crowded beaches, the illegal gatherings, the barbecues etc). I will not call it a 'second wave' because the 'first wave' is still with us. Deaths yesterday across Europe: Spain 2 Italy 87 Germany 24 France 52 Turkey 28 Belgium 42 Sweden 84 Portugal 14 Ireland 6 Poland 13 Romania 13 Hungary 8 Netherlands 28 UK 324 Why now? You're right.I I'd stay in if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malagaram Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 51 minutes ago, Eddie said: Yes. I posted it last light, and I am delighted that I have now been given the choice to make my own decisions again, albeit once a day only. I would actually like to know the reasoning behind this decision being taken now, when medical advice was that we were to continue sheltering until June 30. Why is it suddenly 'safer' now than it was 3 weeks ago? Is it likely that Cummings broke the lockdown irrevocably, and Johnson has taken this course of action now purely and simply as a deflection tactic to quell the anger of those of us who have been locked up completely, an awful lot of whom are traditional Tory voters? After all, the elderly are far more likely to vote Conservative than for any other party. When Johnson said, just two (or was it 3 or 4) days ago, that we were to remain locked up when answering a question from a young lady frustrated at being perceived as somebody who was to be shut away, unheard and ignored, there was an outpouring of anger aimed in his direction from people in a similar situation. Unlike most who post on here, I am in that category, and so some of the websites I visit are for people who are old, have certain medical conditions etc. The rage was palpable. I myself was utterly furious, seeing an inevitable consequence in his words that there was to be no end to our lockdown. But there is now. I had steeled myself, was hoping that I could make it until the end of June before I emerged, blinking into the sunlight, but Johnson seemed to be saying on Thursday (or was it Wednesday?) "Good news, everyone (not you and your kind, Eddie) - have a barbecue with a couple of mates, go shopping (as you were, Eddie), go for a walk, go to the park, get the old surfboard out (lock and bar your bloody door, Eddie, there is a scary virus out there and it's got your name on it)" - and I was angry, livid, spitting teeth at it all. I received a phone call and a text from the NHS on Friday urging me to remain sheltering in place. Then, suddenly, at 11:00 pm last night, everything changed without any warning. Cummings effectively single-handedly broke the lockdown in England. People are now using it as an excuse (this was stated yesterday by various police forces, and they are hearing it more and more as an excuse for people's behaviour). There will, now, be an inevitable increase in the number of cases, brought about directly because the general relaxation is 'too much, too soon' (witness the crowded beaches, the illegal gatherings, the barbecues etc). I will not call it a 'second wave' because the 'first wave' is still with us. Deaths yesterday across Europe: Spain 2 Italy 87 Germany 24 France 52 Turkey 28 Belgium 42 Sweden 84 Portugal 14 Ireland 6 Poland 13 Romania 13 Hungary 8 Netherlands 28 UK 324 Why now? You talk a lot of sense Eddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 35 minutes ago, Curtains said: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11748383/dominic-cummings-witnesses-lockdown/amp/ Hang about - I get called out for straying into politics - where's the howls of protest from @i-Ram now? Could the reason be (whisper it quietly) political? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 53 minutes ago, maxjam said: Well yeah I'd agree naive and disingenuous went too far. There was no need for naive, it was covered by disingenuous; dis•in•gen•u•ous dĭs″ĭn-jĕn′yoo͞-əs - Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating. - Pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated; faux-naïf. - Unaware or uninformed; naive. As was pointed out by leave.eu and the Daily Mail article @Norman linked there was most definitely an anti-Brexit angle. Funny how its left up to those sources to report it whereas The Guardian et al were happy to publicise a story made up for a joke with zero fact checking because it suited their narrative. See how that works? But yeah one is at best naive or at worst insincere whereas the other is 'poorly thought out, deflectionist and utterly desperate'. Geez. Worth pointing out that this is from the reporter who broke the story in the first place. So be careful when throwing about stuff about fact checking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Eddie said: Hang about - I get called out for straying into politics - where's the howls of protest from @i-Ram now? Could the reason be (whisper it quietly) political? Moved a few posts, to spare some of our more sensitive souls having to see the word Conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Eddie said: Deaths yesterday across Europe: Spain 2 Italy 87 Germany 24 France 52 Turkey 28 Belgium 42 Sweden 84 Portugal 14 Ireland 6 Poland 13 Romania 13 Hungary 8 Netherlands 28 UK 324 Why now? The deaths number is deaths reported, many of them will have not happened yesterday, but the important number for lifting lockdown is the number of infections, which is still trending down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Spain: On May 25th, the government decreased the number of total cases by 372 and the number of deaths to 26837. The discrepancy is the result of the validation of the same data by the autonomous communities and the transition to a new surveillance strategy. Discrepancies could persist for several days. We've adjusted our figures to reflect the new numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Andicis said: The deaths number is deaths reported, many of them will have not happened yesterday, but the important number for lifting lockdown is the number of infections, which is still trending down. I have to admit the numbers make me feel very uncomfortable still but none of us are going to know the impact of a reduction for a couple of weeks so I’m very reluctant to say what’s right or wrong. The only thing the figures really show at the moment is that we should have locked down sooner really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 859 new cases and 280 new deaths in Spain [source] Figures for 26 th May Posted 1 minute ago Spain: On May 25th, the government decreased the number of total cases by 372 and the number of deaths to 26837. The discrepancy is the result of the validation of the same data by the autonomous communities and the transition to a new surveillance strategy. Discrepancies could persist for several days. We've adjusted our figures to reflect the new number Be very careful with the figures Eddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 If old Cummings reckons he knew a pandemic was likely, how come he was so slow in advising the government to either shut the airports or to organise screening those getting off aircraft, ie the temperature gadgets they point at the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: I have to admit the numbers make me feel very uncomfortable still but none of us are going to know the impact of a reduction for a couple of weeks so I’m very reluctant to say what’s right or wrong. The only thing the figures really show at the moment is that we should have locked down sooner really It's worth noting Germany had almost exactly the same numbers as we do currently when they started lifting lockdown, around 200 fatalities and 2000 new infections per day, and upon lifting the lockdown their number of infections plummeted and so did the number of deaths. In fact, the majority of Europe since lifting lockdown has only gone down in number of infections, and not back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 35 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Moved a few posts, to spare some of our more sensitive souls having to see the word Conservative. A ConservaTORY, I hope this doesn't get moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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