IslandExile Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Walker-Peters is 23 though. I agree he has a head start on Bogle. That wasn't the point I was making. I'm a big fan of Bogle. Others are suggesting that we cash in on him. What I'm saying though is that - if Walker-Peters is as cheap as 10 million - we wouldn't get that much for Bogle. I think Bogle is worthy of his place in our side and will only get better. It's not worth selling him on the cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, IslandExile said: I agree he has a head start on Bogle. That wasn't the point I was making. I'm a big fan of Bogle. Others are suggesting that we cash in on him. What I'm saying though is that - if Walker-Peters is as cheap as 10 million - we wouldn't get that much for Bogle. I think Bogle is worthy of his place in our side and will only get better. It's not worth selling him on the cheap. Walker-Peters is valued at only £10m because of his age and Spurs want to sell. Bogle is younger, possibly higher potential, and at a club who don’t want to sell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Walker-Peters is valued at only £10m because of his age and Spurs want to sell. Bogle is younger, possibly higher potential, and at a club who don’t want to sell him. Plus Walker-Peters is coming out of contract 31 July (according to transfermarkt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Bogle has a problem, the problem being he has no real competition for his place. This can lead to complacency. The solution isn’t to sell him, cash in, we need to find competition for him, create a fight for the position. He’s 19, probably still gets ID’d when buying a box of matches, would be foolish to write him off already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, David said: Bogle has a problem, the problem being he has no real competition for his place. This can lead to complacency. The solution isn’t to sell him, cash in, we need to find competition for him, create a fight for the position. He’s 19, probably still gets ID’d when buying a box of matches, would be foolish to write him off already. He might be good enough for Spurs or AC Milan, but he surely ain't good enough for Derby. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dimmu said: He might be good enough for Spurs or AC Milan, but he surely ain't good enough for Derby. Right? Sounds about right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 19 hours ago, Anag Ram said: We want watertight defenders who run like the wind and can produce pinpoint crosses. This is one of the things which frustrates me On the LHS we have Fozzy and Malone who are both very decent crossers of the ball - The key thing being whilst they only produce a 'killer' ball every now and then the 'bad' crosses they send in are still in and around the right area for strikers to take a half chance on When Bogle produces a 'killer' ball it's amazing - But his bad crosses are so wayward they're as likely to hit the roof of the stadium as anything else So - On the basis our style of play is to get our fullbacks putting in crosses from deep - Why is Bogle not being nailed to the training ground for an extra hour every day whacking crosses in? I always remember Beckham being asked about his crossing ability and being very clear about it - He put in 2 extra hours training every day just taking freekicks and putting in crosses - It's not a natural ability it's a learned skill You can learn it over years in the game obviously - But why not get a head start on it by putting in some extra work? Massive caveat - He may well be doing this - But I've seen no evidence of a comprehensive improvement over the last 2 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, cheron85 said: This is one of the things which frustrates me On the LHS we have Fozzy and Malone who are both very decent crossers of the ball - The key thing being whilst they only produce a 'killer' ball every now and then the 'bad' crosses they send in are still in and around the right area for strikers to take a half chance on When Bogle produces a 'killer' ball it's amazing - But his bad crosses are so wayward they're as likely to hit the roof of the stadium as anything else So - On the basis our style of play is to get our fullbacks putting in crosses from deep - Why is Bogle not being nailed to the training ground for an extra hour every day whacking crosses in? I always remember Beckham being asked about his crossing ability and being very clear about it - He put in 2 extra hours training every day just taking freekicks and putting in crosses - It's not a natural ability it's a learned skill You can learn it over years in the game obviously - But why not get a head start on it by putting in some extra work? Massive caveat - He may well be doing this - But I've seen no evidence of a comprehensive improvement over the last 2 seasons Yes Bogle in particular is guilty of massively over-hitting crosses which means there is no hope of a Derby player getting on the end of them. I would be happier with him playing a gentle cut back which would at least keep a late runner interested. So easy to improve upon as you say with a few words of advice and practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, cheron85 said: This is one of the things which frustrates me On the LHS we have Fozzy and Malone who are both very decent crossers of the ball - The key thing being whilst they only produce a 'killer' ball every now and then the 'bad' crosses they send in are still in and around the right area for strikers to take a half chance on When Bogle produces a 'killer' ball it's amazing - But his bad crosses are so wayward they're as likely to hit the roof of the stadium as anything else So - On the basis our style of play is to get our fullbacks putting in crosses from deep - Why is Bogle not being nailed to the training ground for an extra hour every day whacking crosses in? I always remember Beckham being asked about his crossing ability and being very clear about it - He put in 2 extra hours training every day just taking freekicks and putting in crosses - It's not a natural ability it's a learned skill You can learn it over years in the game obviously - But why not get a head start on it by putting in some extra work? Massive caveat - He may well be doing this - But I've seen no evidence of a comprehensive improvement over the last 2 seasons I have to massively disagree with you. Malone and Fozzy are unreliable with their crossing, often going into the stand behind the goal. Malone does it the most, Fozzy the least, with Bogle somewhere in between (closer to Fozzy than Malone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: I have to massively disagree with you. Malone and Fozzy are unreliable with their crossing, often going into the stand behind the goal. Malone does it the most, Fozzy the least, with Bogle somewhere in between (closer to Fozzy than Malone) I think you and I are watching different players - But that's your opinion so ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Trav Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 If we do cash in we need to get Robert gumny from lech poznan. Quality at going forward and decent defensively. Bielik would help him settle in and jobs a goodun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 17 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Walker-Peters is valued at only £10m because of his age and Spurs want to sell. Bogle is younger, possibly higher potential, and at a club who don’t want to sell him. Walker Peters is currently a better defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said: Walker Peters is currently a better defender. And his value is reflected by his age, not being wanted by his parent club, and having only 1 year on his contract. Those are just three reasons why we can still value Bogle more highly than Spurs value Walker-Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: And his value is reflected by his age, not being wanted by his parent club, and having only 1 year on his contract. Those are just three reasons why we can still value Bogle more highly than Spurs value Walker-Peters. As I say, currently Walker Peters is the better defender, seen him 4 or 5 times for Saints and he is very good. Talk of a 10 million permanent move to a prem club...be surprised if we got 10 million for Bogle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Is he better than the majority of the Championship right backs, yes. Could he play for England as a full back, possibly. I think people need to remember he's only played as a right back for 3 years? He's still learning the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 17/07/2020 at 11:40, cheron85 said: This is one of the things which frustrates me On the LHS we have Fozzy and Malone who are both very decent crossers of the ball - The key thing being whilst they only produce a 'killer' ball every now and then the 'bad' crosses they send in are still in and around the right area for strikers to take a half chance on When Bogle produces a 'killer' ball it's amazing - But his bad crosses are so wayward they're as likely to hit the roof of the stadium as anything else So - On the basis our style of play is to get our fullbacks putting in crosses from deep - Why is Bogle not being nailed to the training ground for an extra hour every day whacking crosses in? I always remember Beckham being asked about his crossing ability and being very clear about it - He put in 2 extra hours training every day just taking freekicks and putting in crosses - It's not a natural ability it's a learned skill You can learn it over years in the game obviously - But why not get a head start on it by putting in some extra work? Massive caveat - He may well be doing this - But I've seen no evidence of a comprehensive improvement over the last 2 seasons The thing is if you just glance at the number of assists it screams that Bogle is far more effective at producing that final ball than any other full back at the club. He's currently sat on 14 assists in the championship in two seasons whereas Malone has 14 assists since 13/14, Forsyth 18 since 13/14 and Wisdom 8 since 13/14 (obviously there are some mitigating circumstances with Wisdom). Assists are by no means a perfect statistic but I think they are a valid means of comparison here given how we play and what it suggests is Bogle is a fair bit ahead in terms of directly influencing goals all ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 14 hours ago, SouthStandDan said: Is he better than the majority of the Championship right backs, yes. Could he play for England as a full back, possibly. I think people need to remember he's only played as a right back for 3 years? He's still learning the role. It's crazy how many matches he's played for his age. As soon as he becomes a better defender, he's really going to propel himself. Because he's currently shackled his biggest asset, being great at driving forward in order to develop as a defender. He'll develop considerably next season at Derby because I think the back 5 (keeper included) will be so much better and more comfortable on and off the ball. Coccu needs to ensure that he doesn't implant a fear into Bogle though. He shouldn't fear driving up the pitch. He shouldn't get caught in two minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Bit of a controversial opinion but i think bogle is overrated at the moment. He's just alright, he's good for his age & is a prospect. Im not denying he's one of the better championship right backs & has potential. Just his crossing needs to improve, see a lot of over & underhit balls. Positioning needs to be better & all round defending, stopping crosses etc. He's good but he's got a long way to go to before he is anywhere near as good as some people on here rate him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, G-Ram said: Bit of a controversial opinion but i think bogle is overrated at the moment. He's just alright, he's good for his age & is a prospect. Im not denying he's one of the better championship right backs & has potential. Just his crossing needs to improve, see a lot of over & underhit balls. Positioning needs to be better & all round defending, stopping crosses etc. He's good but he's got a long way to go to before he is anywhere near as good as some people on here rate him For a 19 year old he is doing very well and we need remind ourselves of that sometimes ( I do think we would sell him if we need the money ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Derby Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 There is a lot of debating Jayden’s merits on here, however no evidence that he is going anywhere. Is he going? Has he gone? Is he staying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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