The Politics Thread 2019

[maxjam]

28 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I'll give you a chance to think about this line - maybe you don't mean it. 

Social justice has acheived a lot in society but in a lot of areas we've gone past the tipping point. 

Feminism is a classic example, most sane people believe that women should be treated equally.  A recent study agreed there was still a need for feminism (49% of men, 56% of women) but only 1 in 3 women identify as feminist. 

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/iopahgu564/InternalResults_180205_Feminism_Suffragettes_w.pdf

There are a lot of other areas (that I'll briefly touch on but won't mention again because they are against forum policy) that as a society we haven't decided the right approach nor are allowed to talk freely about - a lot of which are championed by the far left.

Self ID and everything that entails, teaching 100 genders in the classroom, trans rights vs feminism, islam vs LGBT, to name but a few.  Issues such as these directly effect a small number of people are being pushed out further into the mainstream and will cause problems - gender neutral changing rooms and toilets or parents protesting outside the schools in Birmingham for example. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/14/court-bid-to-stop-lgbt-lesson-protests-at-birmingham-school-starts

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10260206/marks-spencer-changing-rooms-gender-neutral/

 

28 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Are you really happy to be on the wrong side of history on social injustice? 

In the fullness of time I don't think I will be on the wrong side of social justice - it has to work for everyone, not just minorities.  This will be my last comment on the matter so think of me what you will.  A lot of these subjects aren't for a football forum and fall foul of the T&Cs anyway.  

[Parsnip]

5 hours ago, 1967Ram said:

Your not alone. My vote will count for nought too. And we'll be blessed again with an MP who came in at 597th best in the People Power Index:How did your MP score?

We might end up with Boris yet. Derbyshire Dales Sarah Dines is one of a few junior Tories parachuted into these safe seats around the country - which once she has won, she may well have to relinquish her seat so Boris himself can swoop in, fast track a by election, and take the seat himself. If he loses his own seat - he'll need to find another if he is to be prime minister.

Harry Potter fans might remember how Lord Voldemort hid several horcruxes, each containing a fragment of his cursed soul - so that he could go on existing.

This is the same thing. Almost exactly.

[GboroRam]

7 hours ago, 1967Ram said:

Your not alone. My vote will count for nought too. And we'll be blessed again with an MP who came in at 597th best in the People Power Index:How did your MP score?

https://www.change.org/l/uk/the-people-power-index-how-did-your-mp-score?cs_tk=At59KiHkIL6-AhjX610AAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvCIbi-yH44wFaZ1Pri9LkJA%3D&utm_campaign=e8507f9a108840429607c4f143f33b3b&utm_medium=email&utm_source=aa_editorial&utm_term=cs

 

 

 

Wow, 463rd.

Love how the bottom of the list is tory, tory, tory, Kate Hoey, tory, tory. 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

In the fullness of time I don't think I will be on the wrong side of social justice - it has to work for everyone, not just minorities. 

And with that comment you prove that you don't even understand what social justice is. I may be wrong but I suspect that you fell down a Youtube rabbit hole at some point in the past and you've never been the same since.

Quote

I've noticed a massive negative change in society during my lifetime.  It's my opinion that this will continue to get incrementally worse under the Tories, whereas under this Labour government (or the Democrats in the US) regardless of any damage they do to the economy every minority SJW group will think all their Christmases (if thats not to offensive these days) have come and run rampant, bringing things to a head 

What on earth does that even mean? What do you think happens when a minority achieves social justice? You sound like the kind of person who wrote in and complained about the two male dancers on Strictly. "I mean, nothing against the gays, but do we have to have them dancing together on TV?"

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

This will be my last comment on the matter 

Probably for the best

[GboroRam]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

In the fullness of time I don't think I will be on the wrong side of social justice - it has to work for everyone, not just minorities.  This will be my last comment on the matter so think of me what you will.  A lot of these subjects aren't for a football forum and fall foul of the T&Cs anyway.  

I think you will be wrong on that one, because progress only goes one way. 

I remember my granny telling me a story about her waiting in line for a bus, probably in the 70s. A black man was at the front, politely smiling and waving the white people past him, intending to go on last. My granny said she couldn't let him do that, and insisted that he get on before her.. 

She told us she couldn't shake his hand but couldn't see him done wrong by. I'm sure she thought she was perfectly fair yet didn't let the minorities take matters too far the other way. 

Yet two generations later, sounds disgusting. 

[Parsnip]

There might be hope! This is labour voters campaigning in Guildford to get all labour voters to lend their votes to the Lib Dems... tactical voting is not just for Brexit Party morons!

[maxjam]

37 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I think you will be wrong on that one, because progress only goes one way. 

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.  I mentioned a few issues in my previous post that I believe will be dialled back in the fullness of time or force the left into picking a side.  Progress imho isn't necessarily linear.

We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turning then to go forward does not get you any nearer - CS Lewis

[1of4]

3 hours ago, maxjam said:

In the fullness of time I don't think I will be on the wrong side of social justice

Why do you think you are presently on the wrong side?

[Highgate]

5 hours ago, maxjam said:

Exaclty.

The US got Trump because the Democrats have lurched to far to the left and Labour haven't been able to lay a glove on possibly the weakest Tory government in a long time.  Who's job is it to hold the government to account?

How can you conclude that? Neither Trump's Democratic predecessor in the White House (Obama), nor his Democratic opponent in 2016 (Hillary) were left of centre. 

Are you suggesting that people voted against Hillary Clinton (emphatically not a left winger) and for Trump because they were still having nightmares about Bernie Sanders' promise to tax billionaires?  I don't see your logic. 

[maxjam]

8 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Why do you think you are presently on the wrong side?

I don't, I was using someone else's words.

As previously mentioned I think society is in a strange place at the moment conversations need to be had and decisions need to be made.  The vast majority either aren't aware or don't care as it doesn't directly effect them at present - which was my original point.  I think the issues we face as a society will get incrementally worse under a Tory government (as has been happening thoughout the previous 10 years) or come to a head under a Corbyn Labour government as the progressives will run rampant. 

Again, this is just my opinion I have nothing to back this up other than my experiences of 40+ years on the planet. In 5 years time It will be interesting to look back at this post in 5 years time to see if my opinions have changed. 

[maxjam]

22 minutes ago, Highgate said:

How can you conclude that? Neither Trump's Democratic predecessor in the White House (Obama), nor his Democratic opponent in 2016 (Hillary) were left of centre. 

Are you suggesting that people voted against Hillary Clinton (emphatically not a left winger) and for Trump because they were still having nightmares about Bernie Sanders' promise to tax billionaires?  I don't see your logic. 

Increasing political correctness played a role in Trumps election and the Democrats have lurched significantly further left since Trumps victory leading Obama to voice his concern;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/17/democratic-candidates-obama-warns-going-too-far-left

[Highgate]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Increasing political correctness played a role in Trumps election and the Democrats have lurched significantly further left since Trumps victory leading Obama to voice his concern;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/17/democratic-candidates-obama-warns-going-too-far-left

But you said Trump was elected in 2016 because the Democrats had already lurched too far to the left. Your link merely highlights the fact that Obama himself is not on the left. Hillary clearly wasn't anywhere near the left..

If Sanders or Warren win the Democratic nomination for 2020, then it might be valid to say that some centrists or independents would vote for Trump instead, fearing all sorts of communist horrors such free medical care and an adequately funded education system.  But to say that they did so in 2016 when the Democrats ran Hillary makes absolutely no sense to me.

But nearly half of Americans did vote for Trump in 2016.  And there has to be some explanation for that.  People seem to be tired with the same old politics. In 2008 Obama came along, something quite different...promising 'Hope and Change'.  People seemed to love the idea of a change..and elected him president.  Eight years later and even more novel candidate arrived on the scene.  A political outsider, also promising change...in fact he was going to turn Washington upside down and 'Drain the Swamp'.  Trump seemed completely different, unfettered and able to say whatever he pleased.  It seemed refreshing when compared to all the guarded politicians who measure each sentence so as to cause the least offence.  People saw him as authentic in a way that other politicians weren't.  The fact that most of what he said was merely a mixture of shameless self promotion, lies, factual errors, personal insults and appalling policy proposals seemed to count for little with much of the electorate.  The fact that he railed against immigrants and environmental regulations was also extremely popular with certain sections of the electorate. 

It's hard to believe that it will happen again...but at the moment and with the economy booming it seems that he has about a 50/50 chance of getting re-elected.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

11 hours ago, 1967Ram said:

Your not alone. My vote will count for nought too. And we'll be blessed again with an MP who came in at 597th best in the People Power Index:How did your MP score?

https://www.change.org/l/uk/the-people-power-index-how-did-your-mp-score?cs_tk=At59KiHkIL6-AhjX610AAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvCIbi-yH44wFaZ1Pri9LkJA%3D&utm_campaign=e8507f9a108840429607c4f143f33b3b&utm_medium=email&utm_source=aa_editorial&utm_term=cs

 

 

 

North Dorset 1967Ram?

Surprisingly mine is #3. Although to be fair I have punted out a few of Mrs Hants' award winning ice creams to her at local events. 

[maxjam]

31 minutes ago, Highgate said:

But you said Trump was elected in 2016 because the Democrats had already lurched too far to the left. Your link merely highlights the fact that Obama himself is not on the left. Hillary clearly wasn't anywhere near the left..

Bit of laziness on my behalf not explaining my point more thoroughly.  Trump was in part elected because of a kick back against political correctness - the lurch to the left was already well underway by then on social media and to a slightly lesser degree mainstream media.   I'm not saying it was the only reason Trump was elected but standing up to increasingly oppressive political correctness and removing the political elite played it part.

Since Trump's election however the Democrats (and Labour over here) have embraced this media bubble and lurched further to the left and despite Trump being, well Trump and us having one of the weakest Tory governments in living memory the left can't gain a foothold because they have lost the moderates. 

 

39 minutes ago, Highgate said:

It's hard to believe that it will happen again...but at the moment and with the economy booming it seems that he has about a 50/50 chance of getting re-elected.

Unless something drastic happens with impeachment which I can't see tbh, I'd say he's nailed on for another win - but time will tell.

[GboroRam]

What is left wing? 

To me it's public ownership and workers' rights. 

That's not Hillary or the Democrats 

 

[ramit]

And from earlier today

 

[1967Ram]

7 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

North Dorset 1967Ram?

Surprisingly mine is #3. Although to be fair I have punted out a few of Mrs Hants' award winning ice creams to her at local events. 

Yes, Shaftesbury. 'Local' game coming up a week on Saturday.

[Van der MoodHoover]

34 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

Yes, Shaftesbury. 'Local' game coming up a week on Saturday.

Sherborne away?

[Angry Ram]

10 hours ago, Pastinaak said:

There might be hope! This is labour voters campaigning in Guildford to get all labour voters to lend their votes to the Lib Dems... tactical voting is not just for Brexit Party morons!

Here we go Brexit morons.. FFS what a melt..

[Parsnip]

22 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Here we go Brexit morons.. FFS what a melt..

*brexit party - not brexit. I'm not a remainer but I can't stand the brexit party.