The Politics Thread 2019

[CWC1983]

2 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

The strap line from the article linked...

So THAT'S why they call him Red Len! Union baron McCluskey enjoys several glasses of red wine while dining with a friend at a glitzy London eaterie... and is seen leaving with designer shopping

Shock horror. Man shares goes shopping, then has something to eat. 

Stop the world!!! 

Don't rise to the troll. 

Theres been good debate on this thread and its good to see different points of view being put across. 

However, there are some treating this election and this thread like supporting a football team, where its about picking a side, sticking with them and not listening to anyone else's point of view.  Blind faith. 

[Angry Ram]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Yes I honestly do. 

Honestly do you see Johnson doing anything different to his predecessors. Really, honestly, wake up. 

Something has to change. 

It’s easy to be in opposition, not so easy to be in power. Mind you Corbyn has even managed to rooster-up opposition..

I am no Johnson fan and my hope is that now we are leaving a period of austerity, they can and will spread the love. But carefully and not at the risk of everything else. We definitely need to address those who really struggle for sure. 

[Angry Ram]

3 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I'm certain he'll address it. I don't think that's in question at all. Surely the real question is were Labour to take charge and implement welfare reforms, would the economy suffer as a consequence? 

Yep, I think so.. The theory is all very laudable but he has to pay for it. To do that he needs the contributors and he will damage the economy in my opinion..

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Yep, I think so.. The theory is all very laudable but he has to pay for it. To do that he needs the contributors and he will damage the economy in my opinion..

Or he could, as I suspect he'd wish to, forego renewing Trident for a further 5 years and cover every penny of his welfare reforms in a one fell swoop. Alas, the polls suggest that the Bullingdon club are home and hosed so we'll never know what might have been achievable had we dared to dream.

[Comrade 86]

Barry Gardiner showing some real passion here as he tears Smuggy mcSmugface a new poohole

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/barry-gardiner-dominic-raab-video-election-debate-a9237036.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2soycX6jKmwQ_zxc9rMo3U398dw29ETgAALsvdpX0wEGuWuM3mOPObLcU#Echobox=1575733598

Jezza take note. Time to remove your gloves mate. Principle and passion need not be mutually exclusive.

[Stive Pesley]

45 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Or he could, as I suspect he'd wish to, forego renewing Trident for a further 5 years and cover every penny of his welfare reforms in a one fell swoop. Alas, the polls suggest that the Bullingdon club are home and hosed so we'll never know what might have been achievable had we dared to dream.

All we can hope for is that when the stuff that Boris Johnson promised turns out to be yet more lies, and we leave the EU and the country goes to the dogs - all these Tories/Brexiteers will hold their hands up and admit they got it wrong and own the mess.

Because I fear that they won't. I get the impression that they never accept responsibility for anything - that it's always someone else's fault, and their only responsibility is to sneer from the sidelines

And before anyone says it - if the opposite turns out to be true, and the Tories lead us into the land of milk and honey then I will hold my hands up no problem. I'll be absolutely delighted to learn that my fears were for nothing and that Boris Johnson is actually a trustworthy benevolent champion of equality who has turned the country around.

Given that it's odds-on a Tory majority - I want more than anything to be wrong

[Angry Ram]

 

4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Because I fear that they won't. I get the impression that they never accept responsibility for anything - that it's always someone else's fault, and their only responsibility is to sneer from the sidelines

Blimey pot and kettle with you lot. Is not our current situation, someone else’s fault according to you lot. I’d be half tempted to give Corbyn a go and finally burst this Socialist Shangri-La rubbish once and for all. It’s a dream (or nightmare) that lives in story books. 

[GboroRam]

3 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

 

Blimey pot and kettle with you lot. Is not our current situation, someone else’s fault according to you lot. I’d be half tempted to give Corbyn a go and finally burst this Socialist Shangri-La rubbish once and for all. It’s a dream (or nightmare) that lives in story books. 

There's been no labour involvement in government for about 10 years. Everything that's happening is down to the tories, and the lib dems. If you are happy with the status quo, think poverty isn't a big issue, think the NHS is funded fine, think that Atos are fairly on the ball with getting the malingerers off the sick and back into work, that zero hours contracts are pretty much unabused and all the people using them are happy, that all we need to do to finish the job is leave the EU, get some of the foreigners out and it'll be all gravy, great. You'll probably get foxhunting back as a freebie, and hopefully we can resurrect the ivory trade again. 

If not, maybe stop voting for it. 

[maxjam]

4 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Blimey pot and kettle with you lot. Is not our current situation, someone else’s fault according to you lot. I’d be half tempted to give Corbyn a go and finally burst this Socialist Shangri-La rubbish once and for all. It’s a dream (or nightmare) that lives in story books. 

I've decided I'm not going to vote this time.  I think the Tories are the best of a bad lot and the only ones that will deliver Brexit but so long as there's a workable majority I don't actually care who wins. 

I think the world needs a major economy (US or UK) to go full on socialist for the masses to actually wake up to a lot of the problems we face in the world.  If the Trump or the Tories win we'll carry on with the slow gradual decline of society, if Labour or the Democrats win its SJW utopia.

[maxjam]

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

There's been no labour involvement in government for about 10 years.

Exaclty.

The US got Trump because the Democrats have lurched to far to the left and Labour haven't been able to lay a glove on possibly the weakest Tory government in a long time.  Who's job is it to hold the government to account?

[Angry Ram]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

There's been no labour involvement in government for about 10 years. Everything that's happening is down to the tories, and the lib dems. If you are happy with the status quo, think poverty isn't a big issue, think the NHS is funded fine, think that Atos are fairly on the ball with getting the malingerers off the sick and back into work, that zero hours contracts are pretty much unabused and all the people using them are happy, that all we need to do to finish the job is leave the EU, get some of the foreigners out and it'll be all gravy, great. You'll probably get foxhunting back as a freebie, and hopefully we can resurrect the ivory trade again. 

If not, maybe stop voting for it. 

Have they not been complicit in delaying Brexit for the last 3 years on party political grounds.. I call that involvement.. 

[Angry Ram]

6 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I've decided I'm not going to vote this time.  I think the Tories are the best of a bad lot and the only ones that will deliver Brexit but so long as there's a workable majority I don't actually care who wins. 

I think the world needs a major economy (US or UK) to go full on socialist for the masses to actually wake up to a lot of the problems we face in the world.  If the Trump or the Tories win we'll carry on with the slow gradual decline of society, if Labour or the Democrats win its SJW utopia.

Pointless me voting as well, will be a Tory landslide of biblical proportions where I live.. Even the opposition have given up here, no knocks on the door, not even a leaflet from the other contenders.. 

[Stive Pesley]

13 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Blimey pot and kettle with you lot. Is not our current situation, someone else’s fault according to you lot.

Wrong

I voted for Blair and so I accept my share of responsibility for things like the Iraq War and PFI. 

The stuff you refer to as me saying is "someone else's fault" is exactly that. I didn't vote for austerity. I didn't vote for the party that has been in power for the past 10 years.

Why would I accept responsibility for the current state of the country??

 

[Stive Pesley]

16 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I think the world needs a major economy (US or UK) to go full on socialist for the masses to actually wake up to a lot of the problems we face in the world.

I've mentioned Portugal several times and it's always ignored. Bit of an inconvenient truth I suspect. Why accept that Portugal is absolutely prospering under a leftist coalition when you can shout VENEZUELA and go all boggly-eyed?

17 minutes ago, maxjam said:

The US got Trump because the Democrats have lurched to far to the left

Really? You really think the Democrats are "far to the left"?? They got Trump because Hilary is awful

21 minutes ago, maxjam said:

if Labour or the Democrats win its SJW utopia.

Seriously - have a word with yourself. If we had socially-just government then no one would need to be a warrior for social justice. Unless you're saying you don't want a society with social justice? You are a fan of social injustice? That's nice

[Angry Ram]

15 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Wrong

I voted for Blair and so I accept my share of responsibility for things like the Iraq War and PFI. 

The stuff you refer to as me saying is "someone else's fault" is exactly that. I didn't vote for austerity. I didn't vote for the party that has been in power for the past 10 years.

Why would I accept responsibility for the current state of the country??

 

It’s all this fella fault then.  
@G STAR RAM

It’s everybody’s fault  

 

 

[Gritstone Ram]

I believe we will get what people are prepared to pay for. 

[maxjam]

48 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I've mentioned Portugal several times and it's always ignored. Bit of an inconvenient truth I suspect. Why accept that Portugal is absolutely prospering under a leftist coalition when you can shout VENEZUELA and go all boggly-eyed?

Yup Portugals Socialist Party are doing so well they almost managed a majority (37%) in the lowest turnout since 1974.  They are also being criticized for increasing privatization, selling off publically owned businesses to (mostly) China.  A large part of Portugals success is also down to foreigners buying up houses which has increased evictions by up to 300% whilst also pricing Portugal nationals out of the housing market. 

Venezuala did well at first, lets see how Portugal future unfolds.

 

48 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Really? You really think the Democrats are "far to the left"?? They got Trump because Hilary is awful

Yup Hilary was awful and lost for a number of reasons, but despite everything Trump has done and is facing by all accounts he's still on track to win 2020.  Any sort of moderate left would wipe the floor.

 

48 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Seriously - have a word with yourself. If we had socially-just government then no one would need to be a warrior for social justice. Unless you're saying you don't want a society with social justice? You are a fan of social injustice? That's nice

Just had a word with myself and confirmed that I've noticed a massive negative change in society during my lifetime.  It's my opinion that this will continue to get incrementally worse under the Tories, whereas under this Labour government (or the Democrats in the US) regardless of any damage they do to the economy every minority SJW group will think all their Christmases (if thats not to offensive these days) have come and run rampant, bringing things to a head in a short period of time.  If thats me being a fan of social injustice, I don't really care. 

This is also just my opinion, I've got nothing to back it up with other than looking back at this post in 5 years time.

[GboroRam]

31 minutes ago, maxjam said:

If thats me being a fan of social injustice, I don't really care. 

I'll give you a chance to think about this line - maybe you don't mean it. 

Social injustice has been fought and battles won for decades. Votes for women, the slave trade, discrimination against ethnic minority groups, equal rights for gay and lesbians, all thanks to "SJWs" as you term it. 

There has been a lot of good changes and the new ones seem to be more contentious. The right to determine your gender, for example. I just think that in a generation we'll be viewed like the older generation are now with their occasional attitude towards homosexuality or women's rights. In two generations we'll be viewed as so far out of public opinion it'll be like our grandparents /great grandparents views on BME rights. 

Are you really happy to be on the wrong side of history on social injustice? 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

Seriously - have a word with yourself. If we had socially-just government then no one would need to be a warrior for social justice. Unless you're saying you don't want a society with social justice? You are a fan of social injustice? That's nice

Yeah, stop pretending you care @SchtivePesley and go quaff a few bottles of champers. You're not fooling anyone ?

[Comrade 86]

45 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Yup Portugals Socialist Party are doing so well they almost managed a majority (37%) in the lowest turnout since 1974.  They are also being criticized for increasing privatization, selling off publically owned businesses to (mostly) China.  A large part of Portugals success is also down to foreigners buying up houses which has increased evictions by up to 300% whilst also pricing Portugal nationals out of the housing market. 

Venezuala did well at first, lets see how Portugal future unfolds.

 

Yup Hilary was awful and lost for a number of reasons, but despite everything Trump has done and is facing by all accounts he's still on track to win 2020.  Any sort of moderate left would wipe the floor.

 

Just had a word with myself and confirmed that I've noticed a massive negative change in society during my lifetime.  It's my opinion that this will continue to get incrementally worse under the Tories, whereas under this Labour government (or the Democrats in the US) regardless of any damage they do to the economy every minority SJW group will think all their Christmases (if thats not to offensive these days) have come and run rampant, bringing things to a head in a short period of time.  If thats me being a fan of social injustice, I don't really care. 

This is also just my opinion, I've got nothing to back it up with other than looking back at this post in 5 years time.

Sometimes I think you're just a poor man's Stringer Bell