Gritstone Ram Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 30 minutes ago, HantsRam said: As a keen but amateur student of history I am quite confident to assert that this has been the case at least since the English Civil War ? I agree but at such a critical time you would think the country should pull together and sort out what is the best outcome for everyone. However, some want to remain, some want out but then some want out in name only. My personal opinion is that no matter what we do at least 50%-65% of the country won’t be happy so it is impossible to gain a majority with anything. It’s just a big cockup. I think there are only two options either take the withdrawal agreement that May has drawn up or remain. Any customs union would be leaving by name only we may as well stay in with more influence than having trade deals made for 27 countries we have no say in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gritters said: I agree but at such a critical time you would think the country should pull together and sort out what is the best outcome for everyone. However, some want to remain, some want out but then some want out in name only. My personal opinion is that no matter what we do at least 50%-65% of the country won’t be happy so it is impossible to gain a majority with anything. It’s just a big cockup. I think there are only two options either take the withdrawal agreement that May has drawn up or remain. Any customs union would be leaving by name only we may as well stay in with more influence than having trade deals made for 27 countries we have no say in them. I think that in a customs union but not the single market, then you do have to have the same (or very similar) regulatory alignment for those goods within the arrangement. But crucially you do not have to abide by the 4 freedoms. So it all depends on what "taking back control " really meant to people. Will people accept that we have "left" the EU if we have control of the borders but still have to label food exports to the EU in a way that complies with Brussels rules....even if the rule making body is in the UK? I don't know.....the language seems so shrill on both sides a compromise somewhere in the middle seems very difficult to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 On 05/05/2019 at 10:41, Officer said: I still don't know what leavers voted for! They wan't to leave, then move to Fiji. May be a lot of leave voters were born in uk when it was the uk and actually want Europe to leave the uk ? Out of interest are you of an age that being in the eu is pretty much all you know? For me I just edge towards remain but I respect people’s views/vote on both sides of the argument where as your posts make it clear that you only respect your own opinion and that approach is the very reason we are in the mess we are now with seemingly no way forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TibshelfRam Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 On 02/05/2019 at 15:56, McRamFan said: So, because the STH needs £1.5b, it's OK for Grayling to squander the odd £50m... I'm interested to know exactly where I said that - or anything remotely resembling that. I was illustrating that your assertion that we could use that £50million to fund a significant number of nurses, would actually represent a drop in the ocean. I don't think that that is the same as a tacit endorsement of 'squandering the odd £50m'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 It appears May could be planning to have another go at trying to get her brexit deal past by parliament. As its looking as if she won't move from her red lines, so making it difficult for Labour to agree to any new brexit plan. That being said, with the European Parliamentary elections looming. The two main parties appear to be having concerns that the elections could turn into a disaster for them. To stop the elections taking place could we end up with a fudged brexit plan, that is agreeable to both sides but is no good for the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 hours ago, 1of4 said: It appears May could be planning to have another go at trying to get her brexit deal past by parliament. As its looking as if she won't move from her red lines, so making it difficult for Labour to agree to any new brexit plan. That being said, with the European Parliamentary elections looming. The two main parties appear to be having concerns that the elections could turn into a disaster for them. To stop the elections taking place could we end up with a fudged brexit plan, that is agreeable to both sides but is no good for the country. So much weirdness - the Remain side are trying to build some solidarity through tactical voting for hard remain parties https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/ All this seems to tel me is that it will make very little difference. The way the EU parliament voting works, it will be fairly straightforward for all sides to spin the result as a "victory" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 ******** to Brexit ? https://news.sky.com/story/liberal-democrats-launch-balls-to-brexit-manifesto-ahead-of-eu-elections-11715651 Lib Dems trying to emulate UKIP now in terms of crassness? The longer Brexit rolls on the more lowbrow it seems to become. EDIT: Ironically the filter on a football forum prevented me from quoting the Lib Dem manifesto title. You can't make this **** up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 A very ballsy poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 Not been paying much attention to what's been happening this week in Parliament. Why were all the MPs from both sides of the house wearing the white rose of Yorkshire? Are they all Leeds supporters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 On 11/05/2019 at 13:07, 1of4 said: Not been paying much attention to what's been happening this week in Parliament. Why were all the MPs from both sides of the house wearing the white rose of Yorkshire? Are they all Leeds supporters? I wondered what it was for. No idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 What’s the general verdict on The Brexit Party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Boycie said: What’s the general verdict on The Brexit Party? Hopefully they will give the Tory wets and the left wing looney party a dam good thrashing in the European elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Boycie said: What’s the general verdict on The Brexit Party? A party started purely for the benefit of it's leader. A man who as conned the nation into believing that he cares about this country and it's people. A party that will probably get a lot of votes in the European elections. Thus ennobling Farage to carry on with his lies. President Trump as lied and conned the people of America into believing his tax policies would be good for them, that he could easily replace Obama care with a better scheme thats cheaper for them, that he would work hard in the White House. I've watched aghast that many ordinary people still support him and with some amusement thinking the people of this country would never fall for anything like that over here. Farage appears to be using the same blueprint. Playing on peoples fears and prejudices, the uncertain times arising from the country's disgruntlement of main stream politicians. Also like Trump, he likes to make himself out as a man of the people and all the time calling opponents failures and liars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, 1of4 said: A party started purely for the benefit of it's leader. A man who as conned the nation into believing that he cares about this country and it's people. A party that will probably get a lot of votes in the European elections. Thus ennobling Farage to carry on with his lies. President Trump as lied and conned the people of America into believing his tax policies would be good for them, that he could easily replace Obama care with a better scheme thats cheaper for them, that he would work hard in the White House. I've watched aghast that many ordinary people still support him and with some amusement thinking the people of this country would never fall for anything like that over here. Farage appears to be using the same blueprint. Playing on peoples fears and prejudices, the uncertain times arising from the country's disgruntlement of main stream politicians. Also like Trump, he likes to make himself out as a man of the people and all the time calling opponents failures and liars. You are Andrew Marr and I claim my five pounds. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 another 4/5 years of tax payers money in his pocket, expenses and pension. Dealing BS about Europe, whilst his kids have German passports and the tax payer pays for their private education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, Boycie said: You are Andrew Marr and I claim my five pounds. ? Shusssh Don't let the BBC know I'm on here or they will want it shut down during the election campaign. As for you fiver, sorry since all the uproar at the Beeb over equal pay, I now get paid the same as the tea lady, but if you can wait till the end of the month or I've found a Blue Peter badge and a Crackerjack pencil at the back of my desk draw, that you might like instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Farage is a cynical manipulator of the first order. But he seems to have successfully created a narrative that has aligned him with democracy and "the little guy". I'm dismayed more at the complete failure of anyone to show this charlatan up for what I think he is, without invoking the shrill "it's the establishment" tag. Blair seems to have finally realised what has been created as a result of the crass incompetence of people like him......too late I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Boycie said: What’s the general verdict on The Brexit Party? The Brexit Party is an amazing coalition of right and left, black (and minority ethnic) and white, rich and poor, coming together to stand up for democracy. Three years ago we voted to leave and we've not gone and as far as many Brexiteers see we haven't really tried, with politicians showing not the slightest inclination to honour the referendum they said they would. Farage is a plus and minus for them. Initially he provides recognition and can reach a lot of people politicians have no ability to persuade. But he's been vilified and demonized for so long that he has a ceiling in popularity because a lot of people are put off by him. Many think mainstream politicians have betrayed the vote and democracy itself and this is why the weekend polls had Brexit Party 34%, Labour 21%, Tories 11% (with LibDems 12%) for the EU elections. An extraordinary development for a party a month old to be out-polling the two main parties combined. To go a lot further they need other faces beyond Farage to come to the fore. Apparently Widdicombe is popular among people. I think they need someone from the left to do a similar job. I like Claire Fox but she doesn't have sufficient recognition. One notable thing is that the Brexit Party is an amazing contrast to the TIG/Change people who appear amateurish by comparison. Richard Tice (Chair) is very impressive and might have something to do with that. Their social media is very slick and their message simple. As shown in their new broadcast. Democracy matters and the Brexit Party is the manifestation of a national grassroots uprising to defend it. I had thought I'd never vote again in an election as there wasn't any point, but I'll be voting for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: Democracy matters and the Brexit Party is the manifestation of a national grassroots uprising to defend it. I had thought I'd never vote again in an election as there wasn't any point, but I'll be voting for them. I'll be voting for them in the Euro Elections as they are the only real Brexit Party of note. If they fight a general election and include protecting free speech in their manifesto they will become very tempting to a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, maxjam said: I'll be voting for them in the Euro Elections as they are the only real Brexit Party of note. If they fight a general election and include protecting free speech in their manifesto they will become very tempting to a lot of people. They won't be doing one of those will they? Nigel has spoken. They'd have people believe its because the term is risible and associated with lies and betrayal by the "traditional" parties. A cynic might think its because they really don't have anything much to say outside of the Brexit soundbites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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