A Ram for All Seasons Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, FindernRam said: You were still very young back in the day when our nationally run industries were a total shambles and irresponsible Unions brought us to the brink of ruin. Our new EEC "friends" were laughing at us and called us the sick man of Europe. I'm just about old enough to remember the 1964-1970 Wilson Labour government as a young boy. So many good things were happening then: sexual liberation, social emancipation, real anti-elitism a huge expansion in education that allowed a working class lad like me to study and get on in the world. The Beatles were still together and Brian Clough was just starting out as a young manager. Britain was the centre of a social and cultural revolution that was the envy of Europe. Contrast that with the nasty, venal, overpriviliged toffs in today's Tory party that want nothing more than to set the population up to be bled dry by the hedge funds and private equity, billionaires that pay them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said: "Our nationally run industries were a total shambles and irresponsible Unions brought us to the brink of ruin" I think the 500% increase in the price of crude oil caused by the Arab-Israeli war might have had something to do with it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 31 minutes ago, Norman said: Have you voted Labour all your life? I will be voting Conservative this election. But I'm not a Tory lad. And bears don't defecate in the woods. If you vote tory, extol tory policies, then by definition your a tory. Come on don't be shy, stand up for your convictions, be proud of what you are. Nobody think any worse of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, 1of4 said: And bears don't defecate in the woods. If you vote tory, extol tory policies, then by definition your a tory. Come on don't be shy, stand up for your convictions, be proud of what you are. Nobody think any worse of you. Well, I have only voted for Conservatives once before. Which is the same amount as Labour. So how can that be true? I'm 31, with no interest in politics until I was about 25/26. And I have said who I am voting for. Which would be standing up for my convictions. And I'm obviously not shy. What you think about me really doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Norman said: Have you voted Labour all your life? I will be voting Conservative this election. But I'm not a Tory lad. Yes, always voted Labour, the only time I hesitated was with Tony Blair leading the party but after 18 years of Tory rule we had very little choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Yes, always voted Labour, the only time I hesitated was with Tony Blair leading the party but after 18 years of Tory rule we had very little choice. So you did vote Tory then? Well 'Tory Light' maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, Paul71 said: So you did vote Tory then? Well 'Tory Light' maybe. I don’t think that’s what ‘hesitated’ means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, A Ram for All Seasons said: I'm just about old enough to remember the 1964-1970 Wilson Labour government as a young boy. So many good things were happening then: sexual liberation, social emancipation, real anti-elitism a huge expansion in education that allowed a working class lad like me to study and get on in the world. The Beatles were still together and Brian Clough was just starting out as a young manager. Britain was the centre of a social and cultural revolution that was the envy of Europe. Contrast that with the nasty, venal, overpriviliged toffs in today's Tory party that want nothing more than to set the population up to be bled dry by the hedge funds and private equity, billionaires that pay them. I don't think it's fair to tar every Tory MP with the Rees-Mogg brush. I'm pretty sure there are good and bad MP's on both sides of the house as, no doubt, there was back in the late 60's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: I don't think it's fair to tar every Tory MP with the Rees-Mogg brush. I'm pretty sure there are good and bad MP's on both sides of the house as, no doubt, there was back in the late 60's. There are a few decent Tory MPs, but they have absolutely nothing to say in today's Tory party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said: There are a few decent Tory MPs, but they have absolutely nothing to say in today's Tory party. Plus they have all left in the last 2 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Norman said: Well, I have only voted for Conservatives once before. Which is the same amount as Labour. So how can that be true? I'm 31, with no interest in politics until I was about 25/26. And I have said who I am voting for. Which would be standing up for my convictions. And I'm obviously not shy. What you think about me really doesn't matter. Interesting posts @Norman. Ignoring the personalities involved at the top of the various parties, what is it in the Tory manifesto/promises that leads you to vote for them over Labour? If it's purely a Brexit thing then fair enough. If this had been resolved already, would you still vote in the same way based on current pledges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 hours ago, A Ram for All Seasons said: I'm just about old enough to remember the 1964-1970 Wilson Labour government as a young boy. So many good things were happening then: sexual liberation, social emancipation, real anti-elitism a huge expansion in education that allowed a working class lad like me to study and get on in the world. The Beatles were still together and Brian Clough was just starting out as a young manager. Britain was the centre of a social and cultural revolution that was the envy of Europe. Contrast that with the nasty, venal, overpriviliged toffs in today's Tory party that want nothing more than to set the population up to be bled dry by the hedge funds and private equity, billionaires that pay them. Good response to weak historical analysis. Like the idea that Labour caused the global 2008 financial meltdown. Their main error was that they should have regulated the banks more, not less, but you never really hear that argument from the right weirdly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Angry Ram said: As someone from the opposite politically. Us Tory boys also face real hatred at the moment. I’ve been labelled just about everything from many sources.. Racist / Facist. I find it is sometimes the easiest route to pretend to be a socialist and a Remainer, especially in new company and where I can’t be arsed to get involved. That maybe just a London thing.. Unfortunately for you, many people who have similar political views to you are actually racist, with possible fascist sympathies too. The Right Wing papers with their 'traitor' and 'betrayal' narrative help stoke the nationalist flames, likewise the continual language of 'surrender' and other wartime phrases from the right. Does it concern you that plenty of the more moderate right wing Tories have left the party recently? These people aren't some left wing radicals. They have voted with the government on all sorts of right wing policies but the current situation is even too much for them. I also don't understand the extreme position of Lib Dems on Brexit. They just had to promise a 2nd referendum, but the immediate revoke of article 50 just seems like another thing to put off moderate voters. Labour position on Brexit seems like the best compromise to me, but gets loads of stick for 'sitting on the fence' by the same people who also keep telling us they are extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Interesting posts @Norman. Ignoring the personalities involved at the top of the various parties, what is it in the Tory manifesto/promises that leads you to vote for them over Labour? If it's purely a Brexit thing then fair enough. If this had been resolved already, would you still vote in the same way based on current pledges? Brexit, controlled immigration, the NHS, public services and minimum wage. Brexit - the only party willing to make it happen. Controlled immigration - Our services have never been so bad. The NHS is badly stretched despite bigger increases in funding than ever before. 300,000 extra people a year coming in will not help it one bit. NHS - It won't be part of any trade deal. The law would have to be changed or large parts privately sold off. Political suicide. Project Fear. Minimum Wage - you cant up the wage to 10 quid overnight. Lunacy for people in jobs like teaching, nursing, forces, Fire Brigade, Police Force, Prison Service. We all work Bank Holidays, nights, shifts, and for not much more than 10 quid an hour. So why would you do it? You'd have to up everyone's wages by 20 percent overnight too. Just ridiculous. I'm in favour of state owned energy. I think Labour have that right. But to bring the Mail back into state owned hands again? Have we not learned anything from sectors that need to have the motivation, competition, and advancement to keep up with technology, population and development? Royal Mail didn't adapt to the online world. Competitors did a fine job in offering a cheaper, faster, better service. And they still do. Royal Mail have only just got a standard tracking system for small businesses. They are way behind still, but are far better run than before. So therefore I am against the Broadband proposal etc. So basically, I, like most of the people I know are left with no choice but to vote Conservative. Labour should be massively up in the polls. There is so much to do and sort out yet Labour, as of now, has no idea on Brexit, immigration, what tax laws they will bring in to fund the broadband idea that is soooooo much in its infancy as an idea its laughable. What the knock on affects of brining in those laws will have on inward investment and jobs etc. They don't even know whether they will give the SNP a second referendum or not. Or when. No direction, no leadership, no proper opposition. Unelectable. I could go on, and I am going to get many replies from butt hurt Labour fan Bois trying to pick my post apart, but that is my opinion. I have no choice but to vote Conservative. The fault lies squarely with Momentum and Corbyn, Abbott etc. There are more reasons too, but I'm typing on a phone, ony day off, and the whole thing is starting to piss me off. Its a shambles of a parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Plus the hypocrisy of Labour voters who voted remain saying Brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for. Economical suicide they said. But are willling to vote a Labour manifesto in that has more holes than a colander. Can anyone, for the fourth time, answer me what laws Labour are going to changed so companies acting perfectly lawfully, such as Amazon and Google, are going to pay more tax? And how that will affect other inward investment? Because you can't vote for something you can't understand. That's what people have been telling the likes of me @G STAR RAM, @Angry Ram etc for years. It's just ********. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Norman said: Plus the hypocrisy of Labour voters who voted remain saying Brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for. Economical suicide they said. But are willling to vote a Labour manifesto in that has more holes than a colander Erm, the manifesto hasn't been published yet.. https://labour.org.uk/manifesto-2019/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said: Erm, the manifesto hasn't been published yet.. https://labour.org.uk/manifesto-2019/ Publically stated ideas then. Everything in my post will be in the manifesto. So make a point, instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, Norman said: Publically stated ideas then. Everything in my post will be in the manifesto. So make a point, instead Not sure it will. I wonder how many people actually know what's actually in a manifesto in the end. A good example from last time was the popular belief that labour would pay off student debts which was never in the manifesto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said: Does it concern you that plenty of the more moderate right wing Tories have left the party recently? These people aren't some left wing radicals. They have voted with the government on all sorts of right wing policies but the current situation is even too much for them. Does it concern you that plenty of the more moderate left wing Labour ministers have left the party recently? These people aren't some right wing radicals. They have voted with the government on all sorts of left wing policies but the current situation is even too much for them. Flippant comment I'll admit but its fairly obvious to see that both main parties are moving to the extremes. Depending upon how rose tinted your glasses are however you might only see this happening to one or the other. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50330007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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