GboroRam Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: This just simply isnt true though. https://www.conservatives.com/sharethefacts/2019/08/conservative-nhs-policy https://www.gov.uk/government/news/workers-rights-to-be-protected-in-uk-law https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/sajid-javid-spending-review-no-deal-brexit-election_uk_5d6fb7a8e4b0cdfe0578d1eb?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAG-GglE0ijhgR77tYdNDE6I3VsbCRX9RS8gZM_5-8hZlDiIpfGjEZegs1u8jDRGV7hHuvwQPFKSqCq32wE_8HlsyZ8yqrNrE6SAF-iFngbE6uTTaSVAmLDD_ZYTDMY2Iu8QKOPZt6G7H5t7fSc5cDeNC75KswXSq6U7YsqbodcY2 If you trust the Cons with the NHS then I've got a bridge for sale you may be interested in. Proposed cash injections have so far turned into reallocation of money from already committed budgets, or just outright lies. Even if money was proposed, it's to offset years of underspending. Workers rights to be protected in law, but rights to change them will pass to the same Tory government that saw the deaths of thousands after being declared fit for work. To be honest I don't believe in workers being given their rights - they need to stand up for them regardless of who proposes legislation. Being in the EU is no guarantee of good workers rights. I just trust Boris slightly less than the EU. Spending right now is increased as Boris needs to buy some support from the public. This is purely pre-General Election vote buying. And a promise to raise it by "at least inflation" is actually a promise not to cut. Which I don't believe anyway. If you want change, vote Labour. That's the only advice I can give you - both the Tories and Lib Dems have been the driving force behind all the nasty policies we've lived through over the last god knows how long. If you are happy with the situation as it is, go ahead and vote Tory. But sadly I think although most of the public are desperate for change (and in my opinion that's what the Brexit vote really said), they aren't prepared to fully support the only party trying to offer it. I hope a general election allows for the debate to widen out from Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, GboroRam said: If you trust the Cons with the NHS then I've got a bridge for sale you may be interested in. Proposed cash injections have so far turned into reallocation of money from already committed budgets, or just outright lies. Even if money was proposed, it's to offset years of underspending. Workers rights to be protected in law, but rights to change them will pass to the same Tory government that saw the deaths of thousands after being declared fit for work. To be honest I don't believe in workers being given their rights - they need to stand up for them regardless of who proposes legislation. Being in the EU is no guarantee of good workers rights. I just trust Boris slightly less than the EU. Spending right now is increased as Boris needs to buy some support from the public. This is purely pre-General Election vote buying. And a promise to raise it by "at least inflation" is actually a promise not to cut. Which I don't believe anyway. If you want change, vote Labour. That's the only advice I can give you - both the Tories and Lib Dems have been the driving force behind all the nasty policies we've lived through over the last god knows how long. If you are happy with the situation as it is, go ahead and vote Tory. But sadly I think although most of the public are desperate for change (and in my opinion that's what the Brexit vote really said), they aren't prepared to fully support the only party trying to offer it. I hope a general election allows for the debate to widen out from Brexit. It doesnt matter whether I trust the Conservatives or not, the statement you made was simply not true but rather than admit that you just move the topic on to your opinion. Its something I hear and see on a daily basis now, left attacks right with unsubstantiated claims, get called out on it but then just move the conversation on to something else. And then follow it up with a laughing emoji when you get called out on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: It doesnt matter whether I trust the Conservatives or not, the statement you made was simply not true but rather than admit that you just move the topic on to your opinion. Its something I hear and see on a daily basis now, left attacks right with unsubstantiated claims, get called out on it but then just move the conversation on to something else. Hahaha, that's classic! You've got a choice of three parties practically, and 2 of them were at the helm causing the mayhem that I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 minute ago, GboroRam said: Hahaha, that's classic! You've got a choice of three parties practically, and 2 of them were at the helm causing the mayhem that I'm talking about. No, what you was talking about was this:- "Labour currently is the only party talking about the things that really matter to ordinary people. The NHS, workers rights, austerity (get ready for that to make a reappearance after a GE should the Conservatives get back in with a decent majority) - everything of real value." Something which I proved to be wrong. Also, do you not remember the state the country had been left in by Labour before the Cons/Libs caused all the mayhem? Just in case you don't, here is a little recap:- https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/full_extent_of_gordon_brown_s_economic_failure_revealed_oasfuumxrgxytpganrmhizrj9kc# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 On 20/10/2019 at 19:32, GboroRam said: Well I'm sure all those at risk will finally see the silver lining. Ah, so you can vote to keep your working conditions, but I can't vote to improve mine. Says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 All Labour have to say is 'working conditions' and 'they are going to sell the NHS'. Both not possible by law. I've watched hours of parliamentary debate this week. Corbyn doesn't answer any questions on Brexit. Just trots out the same 2 lines above. Oh sorry, he made one point. He doesnt like the 15-60 quid export tax from NI to Britain. Didn't go into the ins and outs though. Appaling job of helping parliament hear the details of the agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, ketteringram said: Do you think the figure of 5,000 is too high, too low, or about right? Is the figure correct? You'd need to ask Farage, he's the one who quoted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The best thing about the 3 half years of Brexit deadlock is that it's prevented a Tory government from inflicting yet more misery on the country. Imagine all the extra damage they could have done. Thank god for Brexit. Also makes good TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Norman said: All Labour have to say is 'working conditions' and 'they are going to sell the NHS'. Both not possible by law. Yet. If the Tories get a majority at the GE then they will change the law - or at least watch them attempt to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 All in all we're screwed, Boris Johnson is just a maniac Jeremy Corbyn deffo has somet wrong wi him in his head Lib Dems are Lib Dems reckon the dcfcfans Party could do a better job than any of these folk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 37 minutes ago, Squid said: All in all we're screwed, Boris Johnson is just a maniac Jeremy Corbyn deffo has somet wrong wi him in his head Lib Dems are Lib Dems reckon the dcfcfans Party could do a better job than any of these folk Jesus Christ, just imagine us lot trying to run anything political. Would kick off after 2 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, Squid said: All in all we're screwed, Boris Johnson is just a maniac Jeremy Corbyn deffo has somet wrong wi him in his head Lib Dems are Lib Dems reckon the dcfcfans Party could do a better job than any of these folk Jo Swinson leader of the Stop Democracy Party. No. Jeremy Corbyn leader of the Labour party a politician stuck in an early seventies time warp. No. Bumbling Boris Johnson although embarrassing is better than the above. Let hope the EU believe in democracy and kick us out with no deal, but will never happen we are just a cash cow for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, GboroRam said: I hear a few people say that, but don't we have a middle-of-the-road party ready for people to vote for? Why would Labour benefit from trying to position itself in Lib Dem territory? Labour currently is the only party talking about the things that really matter to ordinary people. The NHS, workers rights, austerity (get ready for that to make a reappearance after a GE should the Conservatives get back in with a decent majority) - everything of real value. Brexit is the sideshow, but it's the sideshow with massive unknowns and potential to cause untold harm to those who don't have a lump of cash squirreled away. On the one side, there is the Deliveroo courier on his bike in the rain trying to earn enough on a zero-hours contract to pay his unregulated rent for his insecure tenancy in a buy-to-let former council block. On the other side, there is Deliveroo’s highest paid director last year who awarded himself a 57% increase in basic pay and £8.3m in share options. This is the sort of society the Conservatives want to see. Brexit is a means to achieving that aim by building a bonfire of even more deregulation, and it has to be considered in this context. Economists have predicted that Johnson's deal could reduce Britain’s per capita GDP by up to 7% over 10 years compared with remaining (prediction not fact), which will make things even worse. This why it Brexit needs to be resisted by all democratic means, starting by allowing enough time for proper debate in Parliament, submitting amendments and putting it to a people's vote. P.S. Before anybody tries to get their knickers in a twist, this is a statement of my personal personal opinion and does not purport to be an empirically derived statement of eternal truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said: The best thing about the 3 half years of Brexit deadlock is that it's prevented a Tory government from inflicting yet more misery on the country. Imagine all the extra damage they could have done. Thank god for Brexit. Also makes good TV. Government this government that. In my experience it's corporations and employers that are a far bigger problem. Unions today are useless. They care far more about elected officials than fighting day to day for their members on actual working conditions, pay, etc. Corporations care far more about virtue signalling than paying their employees more and treating them better. To top it off, it's almost enforced that employees must engage in unpaid community or charity work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Norman said: All Labour have to say is 'working conditions' and 'they are going to sell the NHS'. Both not possible by law. Not possible, yet the NHS is stealthily being sold off in bits and has been for years. You can't trust these Tories, and you can't trust the yellowish Tories going by the Lib Dem name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 51 minutes ago, cstand said: Jo Swinson leader of the Stop Democracy Party. No. Jeremy Corbyn leader of the Labour party a politician stuck in an early seventies time warp. No. Bumbling Boris Johnson although embarrassing is better than the above. Let hope the EU believe in democracy and kick us out with no deal, but will never happen we are just a cash cow for them. I struggle to see the appeal of a no deal situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 hours ago, GboroRam said: If you trust the Cons with the NHS then I've got a bridge for sale you may be interested in. Proposed cash injections have so far turned into reallocation of money from already committed budgets, or just outright lies. Even if money was proposed, it's to offset years of underspending. Workers rights to be protected in law, but rights to change them will pass to the same Tory government that saw the deaths of thousands after being declared fit for work. To be honest I don't believe in workers being given their rights - they need to stand up for them regardless of who proposes legislation. Being in the EU is no guarantee of good workers rights. I just trust Boris slightly less than the EU. Spending right now is increased as Boris needs to buy some support from the public. This is purely pre-General Election vote buying. And a promise to raise it by "at least inflation" is actually a promise not to cut. Which I don't believe anyway. If you want change, vote Labour. That's the only advice I can give you - both the Tories and Lib Dems have been the driving force behind all the nasty policies we've lived through over the last god knows how long. If you are happy with the situation as it is, go ahead and vote Tory. But sadly I think although most of the public are desperate for change (and in my opinion that's what the Brexit vote really said), they aren't prepared to fully support the only party trying to offer it. I hope a general election allows for the debate to widen out from Brexit. Voting for change is only good advice is that change will be better, everything taken into account, than things are now. The issue is that a lot of people, aren't convinced it will be. Sometimes, not just in politics, things are worse (or at least no better) than they were before. Change isn't always good and I'm saying that as a Change/Project Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Squid said: I struggle to see the appeal of a no deal situation... It finishes this whole fiasco? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, cstand said: Jeremy Corbyn leader of the Labour party a politician stuck in an early seventies time warp. Hang on - I thought things were better in the early seventies - before we joined the EU? In fact I've seen nothing but old farts telling me how great it was back then. Kids could play outdoors, a family could survive on one wage, you could buy a house for twice your annual salary, fewer cars on the road, jumpers for goal posts etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, Angry Ram said: It finishes this whole fiasco? ?? No deal brexit is not the end - it's just the start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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