The Politics Thread 2019

[WhiteHorseRam]

10 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

To summarise before I check out of this thread for a while, I don't think any of the parties that are currently large enough to form any sort of government are fit for purpose. Westminster has become an absolute race to the bottom where empathy and fact have been chucked out of the window. It's a pattern repeating itself all over the world and it's a scary series of events. 

If you think brexit was done with your best interests at heart you are probably wrong.

If you think the Conservative government will be true to their word on the environment, the NHS and workers rights once brexit is done you are probably wrong. 

If you think Corbyn is some sort of magical bullet to sort all this out you are probably wrong.

They are an absolute shower the lot of them, we are in desperate need of a hard reset or at the very least a new viable alternative to both parties which are more interested in their own agendas and/or infighting than they are in actually doing their jobs in service to the people of our country.

The system is fine, has worked for ages and is the model for many around the world.

The problem is both main parties have been taken over by fringe idiots.

Somewhere there is a parallel universe in which Ruth Davidson is leading the Tory Govt and Dan Jarvis is leader of the opposition. Most likely we have  just concluded a BREXIT deal which will give each UK citizen a free Spanish holiday and Fiat if they want it.

[Tamworthram]

Perhaps this has already been covered, I haven't read through 341 pages of comments, but if the leavers are so convinced that it is the will of the country to leave, a betrayal of democracy to have a second referendum because the public have already spoken, and it's now time to deliver what the electorate voted for why are they opposed to having another referendum as surely they know the outcome would be the same?

They must fear/suspect that the outcome a second time around would be very different.

[Stive Pesley]

It’s certainly interesting to see how the media have reported Boris Johnson sending the extenstion letter

He was adamant that he would not send it, he said he’d rather “die in a ditch” than send it.

Then he sends it.

In any normal times this would be reported as a humiliation, an embarrassing climb down, the PM doing the one thing he said he wouldn’t do

Instead the media describe him as defiant because he “didn’t sign it”

The media manipulation is astounding

[GboroRam]

14 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

It’s certainly interesting to see how the media have reported Boris Johnson sending the extenstion letter

He was adamant that he would not send it, he said he’d rather “die in a ditch” than send it.

Then he sends it.

In any normal times this would be reported as a humiliation, an embarrassing climb down, the PM doing the one thing he said he wouldn’t do

Instead the media describe him as defiant because he “didn’t sign it”

The media manipulation is astounding

Maybe he got someone else to put it in the letterbox?

[maxjam]

18 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

It’s certainly interesting to see how the media have reported Boris Johnson sending the extenstion letter

He was adamant that he would not send it, he said he’d rather “die in a ditch” than send it.

Then he sends it.

In any normal times this would be reported as a humiliation, an embarrassing climb down, the PM doing the one thing he said he wouldn’t do

Instead the media describe him as defiant because he “didn’t sign it”

The media manipulation is astounding

Maybe its because he didn't have an alternative?

Can't get Brexit through Parliament, denied a General Election and no one wants a second referendum.  

We're stuck in this never ending loop until something gives or the next General Election comes round.

[GboroRam]

7 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Maybe its because he didn't have an alternative?

Can't get Brexit through Parliament, denied a General Election and no one wants a second referendum.  

We're stuck in this never ending loop until something gives or the next General Election comes round.

If we get the extension that's been asked for, maybe the general election becomes possible.

[maxjam]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

If we get the extension that's been asked for, maybe the general election becomes possible.

Something needs to happen, its gridlocked atm. 

Around 300 MPs keep trying to leave, around 320 MPs keep blocking them - unless something changes we're stuck as we are until the next GE. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

To quote Dominic Raab: 

"The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music."

Thus speaks the voice of privilege. And these are the people that accuse us of "hating our country".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained?wprov=sfla1

Wasn't a report released a few months ago saying the UK works the most hours in Europe?

[A Ram for All Seasons]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Wasn't a report released a few months ago saying the UK works the most hours in Europe?

Well, the UK is already exempt from the EU Working Time Directive which is designed to prevent people from having to work excessive hours. The aim of Brexit is to get rid of all other regulations so that Britain can become a sweatshop.

[GboroRam]

18 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Something needs to happen, its gridlocked atm. 

Around 300 MPs keep trying to leave, around 320 MPs keep blocking them - unless something changes we're stuck as we are until the next GE. 

Completely agree. I also think that no deal is the only way out because we can't agree a deal that suits enough people to get it through. Maybe that changes with a GE and a change in the majority makeup of parliament.

Unfortunately I think no deal with suit nobody, but de facto will be the only real way out. I just wish we'd focused for the last 3 years preparing the country for just that.

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 hour ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

To quote Dominic Raab: 

"The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music."

Thus speaks the voice of privilege. And these are the people that accuse us of "hating our country".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained?wprov=sfla1

My knowledge of the outside world is scant, much like Mr Raab himself, actually. But my impression of Indian children is that a great many of them simply aspire to be alive tomorrow.

[tomsdubs]

“I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing." - Dominic Raab 2018.

[Stive Pesley]

45 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Maybe its because he didn't have an alternative?

Can't get Brexit through Parliament, denied a General Election and no one wants a second referendum.  

We're stuck in this never ending loop until something gives or the next General Election comes round.

Don't disagree - but why would that influence the way the mainstream media report it?

I've seen it said that the No. 10 press office have effectively threatened to freeze out any new orgs/journalists who don't toe the line on how they want things reporting. Hence so few dissenting voices in the press about Boris Johnson, when he is clearly the largest clown of  PM we've ever had.

[Ghost of Clough]

36 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Well, the UK is already exempt from the EU Working Time Directive which is designed to prevent people from having to work excessive hours. The aim of Brexit is to get rid of all other regulations so that Britain can become a sweatshop.

Exempt? Employees still have to opt out meaning it’s down to choice if someone works more than 48 hours on a regular basis

[AndyinLiverpool]

The EU say the unsigned letter still counts. 
 

hahahahaha

[maxjam]

19 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Don't disagree - but why would that influence the way the mainstream media report it?

You'd have to be a total partisan hack to blame him for something that he's been blocked from doing at every turn surely?

Actually, what am I saying ?

[Stive Pesley]

6 minutes ago, maxjam said:

You'd have to be a total partisan hack to blame him for something that he's been blocked from doing at every turn surely?

Actually, what am I saying ?

I'm not actually suggesting that they blame him - because you're right. By law he had no choice. But to not report it as a humiliation or at the very least a personal embarassment is just weird

"PM says under no circumstances will he send letter, and would rather be dead in a ditch than send it - sends letter"

 

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Perhaps this has already been covered, I haven't read through 341 pages of comments, but if the leavers are so convinced that it is the will of the country to leave, a betrayal of democracy to have a second referendum because the public have already spoken, and it's now time to deliver what the electorate voted for why are they opposed to having another referendum as surely they know the outcome would be the same?

They must fear/suspect that the outcome a second time around would be very different.

Maybe the money used for also those illegal facebook ads has dries up? Or Cambridge Analytica scandal has shone a light on what they did? I assume they believe it made a big difference as they spent so much money last time.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Perhaps this has already been covered, I haven't read through 341 pages of comments, but if the leavers are so convinced that it is the will of the country to leave, a betrayal of democracy to have a second referendum because the public have already spoken, and it's now time to deliver what the electorate voted for why are they opposed to having another referendum as surely they know the outcome would be the same?

They must fear/suspect that the outcome a second time around would be very different.

I dont want another vote because it would set an awful precedent that says if you dont get the answer that you want it's quite acceptable to keep on voting until you do.

I think Leave would win by an even greater margin if the vote was held again because I believe there are enough honest decent people out there who believe in democracy.

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Maybe the money used for also those illegal facebook ads has dries up? Or Cambridge Analytica scandal has shone a light on what they did? I assume they believe it made a big difference as they spent so much money last time.

Or maybe we dont want the government spending millions of taxpayers money producing more leaflets to tell us we voted the wrong way?