The Politics Thread 2019

[ariotofmyown]

36 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Yeah but all the brains are with us..

Little and medium Angry can do the physical stuff.

I never though you were over 80. Fair play.

[Comrade 86]

Remainer posts opinion - Brexiter demands 'evidence' - remainer provides links - Brexiter dismisses citations as opinions whilst spending the balance of their time posting their own opinions as facts without attempting to substantiate their own claims. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Where's the evidence that other than a couple of I'm alright Jacks on here, the majority will benefit from leaving the EU? Three years on and I've still seen nothing. By all means chat a load of rubbish if you like but don't then take others to task because you believe they are doing the same. That's hot air, not a debate.

[Angry Ram]

8 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Remainer posts opinion - Brexiter demands 'evidence' - remainer provides links - Brexiter dismisses citations as opinions whilst spending the balance of their time posting their own opinions as facts without attempting to substantiate their own claims. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Where's the evidence that other than a couple of I'm alright Jacks on here, the majority will benefit from leaving the EU? Three years on and I've still seen nothing. By all means chat a load of rubbish if you like but don't then take others to task because you believe they are doing the same. That's hot air, not a debate.

A Remainer posts an opinion as fact and then can’t support it unless they produce another opinion link. Yadda, yadda, yadda. 
Welcome to hell. 
Your comments are equally true for both sides of this argument. 
 

[ariotofmyown]

41 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

A Remainer posts an opinion as fact and then can’t support it unless they produce another opinion link. Yadda, yadda, yadda. 
Welcome to hell. 
Your comments are equally true for both sides of this argument. 
 

We can probably all agree that no one really knows the answers as the situation is highly complex. Unfortunately, Cameron decided to ask an uniformed electorate to decide and then we had a hopeless and anti-thinking campaign typical of our times.

One of my main reasons for been pro-remain was by looking at the characters on both sides of the debate.

Farage, Johnson, IDS, Mogg, David Davies, Liam Fox, Pritti Patel, Dominic Rabb were/are people who I very rarely agree with. Obviously they are all rightish Tories, but Corbyn was clearly more Leave focused too. My main worry was that Brexit was only ever going to be a right wing Tory Brexit and the ideals of those who voted from a non-right wing perspective would never be reached.

Whilst Cameron and Osbourne were cleary poor champions of Remain, most the politicians I had time for were/are on this side. Ken Clarke, Mickey Hestletine, Justine Greening, John Major, 'Red' Ed Milliband, Keir Starmer, Jess Philips, Caroline Lucas, Harriet Harman.

I shudder if that Brexit mob speak for 52% of the country and based on recent General Elections, they clearly don't. But somehow, these ERG act they are representing a huge majority of the country. Not perhaps half of that 52%.

I'm sick of been told that the British people are sick of Brexit and just want it done regardless. This withdrawal agreement is just the start. What actually happens after the supposedly short transition period is anyones guess. If the right wing are deciding this, god help us.

[Angry Ram]

49 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

We can probably all agree that no one really knows the answers as the situation is highly complex. Unfortunately, Cameron decided to ask an uniformed electorate to decide and then we had a hopeless and anti-thinking campaign typical of our times.

One of my main reasons for been pro-remain was by looking at the characters on both sides of the debate.

Farage, Johnson, IDS, Mogg, David Davies, Liam Fox, Pritti Patel, Dominic Rabb were/are people who I very rarely agree with. Obviously they are all rightish Tories, but Corbyn was clearly more Leave focused too. My main worry was that Brexit was only ever going to be a right wing Tory Brexit and the ideals of those who voted from a non-right wing perspective would never be reached.

Whilst Cameron and Osbourne were cleary poor champions of Remain, most the politicians I had time for were/are on this side. Ken Clarke, Mickey Hestletine, Justine Greening, John Major, 'Red' Ed Milliband, Keir Starmer, Jess Philips, Caroline Lucas, Harriet Harman.

I shudder if that Brexit mob speak for 52% of the country and based on recent General Elections, they clearly don't. But somehow, these ERG act they are representing a huge majority of the country. Not perhaps half of that 52%.

I'm sick of been told that the British people are sick of Brexit and just want it done regardless. This withdrawal agreement is just the start. What actually happens after the supposedly short transition period is anyones guess. If the right wing are deciding this, god help us.

If and that’s a big word nowadays, the polls are to be believed, this Brexit mob does speak for 52% of the country.. 

And even more of a worry for people, who are worried about this, is that after the next GE it might just worse from your perspective.. Way to go Mr Corbyn..

We could trade names of people who potentially be in power from either side.. I agree with some on your list, but the ting to your yang is equally worrying..

 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

17 hours ago, Norman said:

And its promotion of austerity measures on the poorest. 

I think the Tories are quite capable of doing that themselves without any help from the EU.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

11 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Remainer posts opinion - Brexiter demands 'evidence' - remainer provides links - Brexiter dismisses citations as opinions whilst spending the balance of their time posting their own opinions as facts without attempting to substantiate their own claims. Yadda, yadda, yadda

This is a football message board after all, so we're not likely to reach the pinnacle of enlightened discourse here.

Nevertheless, the level of discussion here is far higher than on the Mail and Express message boards. Some of the things that are posted there scare the poo out of me.

[WhiteHorseRam]

15 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

A civil war maybe?

Shouldn't even joke about that.

Civil war is about the worst thing that can happen to anyone, anything and any country.

Atrocities all over, foreign interventions, and little kids with arms and legs blown off, because they don't understand what's happening and can't run away in time.

Don't even joke about it.

[Norman]

1 hour ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I think the Tories are quite capable of doing that themselves without any help from the EU.

You can vote the Tories out if you wish. 

The EU promotes austerity. They admit as much. I have posted the evidence. 

In 30 or so years, if we do not leave, we will have to take the single currency. My opinion of course. But the single currency requires us long-term. Or it requires us not to be in the EU. 

[Norman]

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

If and that’s a big word nowadays, the polls are to be believed, this Brexit mob does speak for 52% of the country.. 

And even more of a worry for people, who are worried about this, is that after the next GE it might just worse from your perspective.. Way to go Mr Corbyn..

We could trade names of people who potentially be in power from either side.. I agree with some on your list, but the ting to your yang is equally worrying..

 

Marxist Mcdonell, Abacus Abbott, Communist Corbyn. The economy is safe. 

[GboroRam]

5 minutes ago, Norman said:

In 30 or so years, if we do not leave, we will have to take the single currency. My opinion of course. But the single currency requires us long-term. Or it requires us not to be in the EU. 

A common suggestion, yet I see no way it could be enforced. We have a veto so could block it indefinitely. 

If the EU were forcing it on us, I would understand a campaign to leave. But it isn't happening. Leaving because of something that is perceived as possible doesn't make sense to me.

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

Marxist Mcdonell, Abacus Abbott, Communist Corbyn. The economy is safe. 

Doesn't matter, there's the magic money tree we've been harvesting of late. Money ain't a problem.

[Angry Ram]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

Marxist Mcdonell, Abacus Abbott, Communist Corbyn. The economy is safe. 

Shudder.  ?

[Norman]

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

A common suggestion, yet I see no way it could be enforced. We have a veto so could block it indefinitely. 

If the EU were forcing it on us, I would understand a campaign to leave. But it isn't happening. Leaving because of something that is perceived as possible doesn't make sense to me.

Just something I see happening in the future. It didn't make me vote Leave, though. 

The EU cannot have us in the Union and out of the currency forever. 

Doesn't stop you voting for a poor Labour even though it is only because you perceive a Tory government will be bad for the economy. 

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Shudder.  ?

Yup, we can eleventy sixth hundreds extra police for 30k.

It adds up. Imagine if she stayed awake how potent an opposition force she would be. 

[Norman]

9 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Doesn't matter, there's the magic money tree we've been harvesting of late. Money ain't a problem.

Moan when there isn't public spending. Moan when there is. 

And it isn't quite on the same level of magic money, is it? 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

25 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

A common suggestion, yet I see no way it could be enforced. We have a veto so could block it indefinitely. 

If the EU were forcing it on us, I would understand a campaign to leave. But it isn't happening. Leaving because of something that is perceived as possible doesn't make sense to me.

The € was a big mistake and I don't think there are any serious economists on the left or the right would recommend joining it.

[ariotofmyown]

27 minutes ago, Norman said:

Marxist Mcdonell, Abacus Abbott, Communist Corbyn. The economy is safe. 

Not sure if you read the post that Angry Ram responded too, but I pointed out that there were lots of right wing Tory leavers I don't like as well as left wing Labour leavers that the likes of you don't like.

Thanks for backing me up by showing how most prominent leavers are not popular with large swathes of the electorate.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

18 minutes ago, Norman said:

Moan when there isn't public spending. Moan when there is. 

And it isn't quite on the same level of magic money, is it? 

No, because they'll forget about it immediately if they get into power again.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

Shouldn't even joke about that.

Civil war is about the worst thing that can happen to anyone, anything and any country.

Atrocities all over, foreign interventions, and little kids with arms and legs blown off, because they don't understand what's happening and can't run away in time.

Don't even joke about it.

Far point, but I'm just a nobody making weak jokes on DCFC fans forum.

When Farage says he will don khaki and get his rifle out if we don't leave, or Tory Brexiteers keep using war like analogies, then this generates feelings that move us towards a more violent outcome.

My 'joke' was meant to be a piss take of their outrageous comments.