Derby County v Aston Villa Match Thread

[Marriot Ram99]

47 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

"The ref was a joke, but no-one laughed". Said by my daughter after today's match.

No matter what will be said about how we played or didn't play, today's match was hugely influenced by the match officials, who were awful throughout the entire game. 

The first half was pretty well balanced, with Derby looking more threatening, while not being at their best. Knowing that we usually come out for the second half and up our game, I was OK about things at half time. Second half, and it was Villa who upped the tempo, and we struggled to match them. I felt that we needed to hold them for about 10 minutes or so and up our tempo, but we didn't go up the gear or two we needed to. The game turned on three, no four appalling refereeing decisions one after another. Marriott was bashed to the ground, right in front of the t w a t (this is the only way to beat the autocorrect) in black - nothing given. We attacked and their left back dived near his own corner flag, right in front of the ref's assistant - free kick to Villa. Another Derby attack, and their no. 14 dived in his own penalty area. There was no contact, but - free-kick to Villa. From that they broke and were given no, gifted another free-kick, and the first goal flowed from that. Villa had been the better side in the second half, but at that point the Rams' heads went down, almost as though they had decided "What's the point of competing, he'll only give them another free-kick". The next two goals were inevitable - to come out after the interval lethargically and remain lethargic, and then let their heads go down was very poor.

It is the first time that I have seen the Derby players en masse surrounding the ref time and time again - we simply don't do this. Individual players were having a go at him throughout the match as well, again, something which we don't do. It was missing from Villa which surprised me now that John Terry is there. The nastiness which made much of his game was there though. However, we shouldn't let our heads go down like that, no matter how bad the ref is. And even though we couldn't match the pace of Villa after the restart, we should have fought our way back into it, but never did.

IN his RD post-match interview Frank said that the substitution was aimed at toughening up the midfield. He went 3 at the back, pushing the spare defender into midfield, but almost immediately we lost Mason Bennett, and had to revert back to 4 at the back. So the midfield didn't get strengthened because of an injury, not because of poor tactics

Frank identified the problem as complacency in his RD after-match interview, and there was a lot of sloppy play throughout the team. Biggest let down was Tom Lawrence, who simply didn't seem bothered for much of the match, and produced virtually nothing apart from a couple of shots. Tom Huddlestone was off the pace for much of the match, but that was because he was carrying a bad injury for much of the match. He played a ball from the edge of the centre circle and was caught with a nasty wack on the calf'ankle area, and had an ice pack strapped on it after the match. It happened right in front of the ref who acknowledged Tom's appeal, but let play go on, and then refused to deal with the offender afterwards. We did give Jack "sit down on the floor and I'll get a free-kick" Grealish quite a kicking so that at least the free-kicks he kept being gifted were at least earned in some way. It might also be that Tom Huddlestone was given such a kicking because he clattered Grealish virtually straight from the kick-off!

Another problem was our tendency for zonal marking. So many times a Villa player passed to a team-mate, with the Derby player having to react and try and run across to the man who had received the ball. But he was already late because the ball was already being played to another team mate who was standing in space, because the Derby player who should have been marking him was actually a few yards away marking the zone. But nobody passes to a zone, they pass to a team-mate, so our approach allows the opposition to zip the ball from man to man quickly and effectively.

Today should serve as a wake up call, but we shouldn't have been dozing off. Despite Villa being the better side in the second half, that was largely because we let them. They were beatable. However, at the start of the season we had no expectations of being where we are in the league, so we are still miles ahead of ourselves. We have maybe found out how to beat a bus-parking, negative team (Birmingham City), something which has been difficult for us for years, but we still have to work out how to beat the ref.

I am sure that Frank and Jody will put the international break to good use and we will come back the better for it. And we will have a few injuries cleared up as well, so COME ON YOU RAMS.

we had no expectations of being 6th? maybe it's just me being over optimistic and thinking our players are better than they are , but I expected us to be challenging for 2nd with the quality players we  have going forward, if Rowett got us 6th why would we expect a midtable finish with quality loan players?

[MuespachRam]

10 hours ago, CHCDerby said:

You plonker. 

I suppose you didn’t enjoy the performances since Sheff Utd. 

This league is what it is, TOUGH. 

The league is rubbish...and it has been for ages, is is just getting worse and worse. 

 

[DavesaRam]

There were loads of different expectations, but then there always are!

I was in the group who didn't expect even the play-offs when Frank and Jody first arrived. We would be happy just to see a positive approach to how we played and a mid-table position, probably just outside the play-offs. Things did change when we started bringing players in, but we still had the complete unknown of Lampard's first outing as manager. How could anyone know how that would go? And for several matches, many of us weren't bothered about the result so long as we were prepared to have a go, and we were making progress.

There are also many people on here who were smarter, or even more blind-faith than me who expected us to be there or there abouts. I love the variation we get on these forums, and I love where we have ended up so far. And I love being able to look to the future with confidence. Its brilliant!

PS: despite yesterday, I am now fully expectant of automatics, even though it isn't guaranteed!

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, Remy the hare said:

Yep we luckily beat villa 2-0 last December in this fixture, having very little possession from memory using rowettball tactics.    We may not make the playoffs this season? But at least we definitely won’t capitulate in any fixture under frank like we did against Fulham back in May.  

A really strange time to post this on the back of a complete second half capitulation where we could easily have lost five or six nil.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

"The ref was a joke, but no-one laughed". Said by my daughter after today's match.

No matter what will be said about how we played or didn't play, today's match was hugely influenced by the match officials, who were awful throughout the entire game. 

The first half was pretty well balanced, with Derby looking more threatening, while not being at their best. Knowing that we usually come out for the second half and up our game, I was OK about things at half time. Second half, and it was Villa who upped the tempo, and we struggled to match them. I felt that we needed to hold them for about 10 minutes or so and up our tempo, but we didn't go up the gear or two we needed to. The game turned on three, no four appalling refereeing decisions one after another. Marriott was bashed to the ground, right in front of the t w a t (this is the only way to beat the autocorrect) in black - nothing given. We attacked and their left back dived near his own corner flag, right in front of the ref's assistant - free kick to Villa. Another Derby attack, and their no. 14 dived in his own penalty area. There was no contact, but - free-kick to Villa. From that they broke and were given no, gifted another free-kick, and the first goal flowed from that. Villa had been the better side in the second half, but at that point the Rams' heads went down, almost as though they had decided "What's the point of competing, he'll only give them another free-kick". The next two goals were inevitable - to come out after the interval lethargically and remain lethargic, and then let their heads go down was very poor.

It is the first time that I have seen the Derby players en masse surrounding the ref time and time again - we simply don't do this. Individual players were having a go at him throughout the match as well, again, something which we don't do. It was missing from Villa which surprised me now that John Terry is there. The nastiness which made much of his game was there though. However, we shouldn't let our heads go down like that, no matter how bad the ref is. And even though we couldn't match the pace of Villa after the restart, we should have fought our way back into it, but never did.

IN his RD post-match interview Frank said that the substitution was aimed at toughening up the midfield. He went 3 at the back, pushing the spare defender into midfield, but almost immediately we lost Mason Bennett, and had to revert back to 4 at the back. So the midfield didn't get strengthened because of an injury, not because of poor tactics.

You're kidding yourself if you think the referee had any bearing on the result yesterday. If one of his decisions led to the first goal then it only fast tracked the inevitable.

As for the Bennett injury affecting tactics, bringing FloJo on was just a like for like swap.

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, Curtains said:

Watch the Rugby on BBC 2 mate it’s more exciting than yesterday. 

Just ignore me. 

Like I say we played perfect footy yesterday. 

Lampard can do no wrong can he. 

Welcome back.

You've been very quiet in recent weeks...everything OK? 

[Remy the hare]

1 hour ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

we had no expectations of being 6th? maybe it's just me being over optimistic and thinking our players are better than they are , but I expected us to be challenging for 2nd with the quality players we  have going forward, if Rowett got us 6th why would we expect a midtable finish with quality loan players?

I don’t expect us to finish top 2, I honestly don’t, cos for frank and co to achieve that would be beyond mosts expectations at the start of the season. I thought the general consensus was he had a free hit this season?

The 4 games before villa were outstanding at times better than mac1 in my opinion. I really hope folk don’t start moaning if we’re not top 2 after Christmas. Let’s have a manager here for longer than 10 months, so he can build something please ?

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

IN his RD post-match interview Frank said that the substitution was aimed at toughening up the midfield...

...Tom Huddlestone was off the pace for much of the match, but that was because he was carrying a bad injury for much of the match.

Is this true? Why on earth didn't he bring Brad on?

[Remy the hare]

32 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

A really strange time to post this on the back of a complete second half capitulation where we could easily have lost five or six nil.

Do you think you become a poor side on one half of football then?

The point I’m making is I will take yesterday on the back of the last 4/5 games. 

[Millenniumram]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Is this true? Why on earth didn't he bring Brad on?

Unfortunately so, that’s my biggest criticism of frank on Saturday, hudd was hammered on the 5th minute (naturally got no support from Dr Xia himself with the whistle) and he could barely move after that. Wasn’t right at all and couldn’t exude any form of presence, should have gone off.

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, Remy the hare said:

Do you think you become a poor side on one half of football then?

The point I’m making is I will take yesterday on the back of the last 4/5 games. 

No didn't say that.

Just not sure how you can say a 2-0 defeat at Fulham was a capitulation yet 0-3 at home to Villa wasn't,  especially when it could quite easily have been 5 or 6.

[wingfieldram]

4 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Just a little sidenote, was late I to the ground yesterday and hadn’t eaten. Basically ran into my seat after 2-3 minutes played. After 20 mins and realised I hadn’t eaten anything all day, a break in play for an injury gave me the chance to rush downstairs and pick up my first ever match day pie. I tell you what, I know it’s pukka pies, but that Chicken Balti ain’t bad...pricey mind

The chicken balti pies are really nice....pity you cant buy them in the supermarkets.

[Remy the hare]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No didn't say that.

Just not sure how you can say a 2-0 defeat at Fulham was a capitulation yet 0-3 at home to Villa wasn't,  especially when it could quite easily have been 5 or 6.

The playoff semi at craven cottage epitomised everything about Rowett’s tenure in my opinion, negative, dull, boring, etc..

I will make my point again. I can take yesterday on the previous 4/5 games performance levels.  Anyone can have an off day. 

[DavesaRam]

39 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You're kidding yourself if you think the referee had any bearing on the result yesterday. If one of his decisions led to the first goal then it only fast tracked the inevitable.

As for the Bennett injury affecting tactics, bringing FloJo on was just a like for like swap.

The ref did have an influence on the result. Ultimately if we had scored first half the outcome should have been completely different. AS it happens, a major factor was that we didn't come out in the second half with a higher tempo. Even so, recent form should have said that we would fight back. The key point is that, although already being outplayed, not by a much superior side, as they were still beatable, our heads visibly went down at that point. Actually I could have accepted a 0 - 1 defeat, but it ended up being us wondering just how many Villa would get.

AS I said in my match comments, I have never, ever seen a Derby team surrounding the ref and hounding him time and time again. I expect that from a John terry team, and probably most of the Premiership prima donnas, but not a Derby team. There had to be something seriously wrong with the match official's performance. And this time, I am by no means the only one have a go at them. 

That we shouldn't have let the ref affect is not in question, but we did and effectively gave up. To me that is the result of a clear influence. G STAR RAM, you can disagree if you wish, that is the beauty of this forum.

Whichever way it looked, and whichever way we have viewed it, the future still looks great. COME ON YOU RAMS!!!!!

[europia]

On 10/11/2018 at 22:05, Tim Bucktoo said:

Maybe. Gary would’ve gone for a draw (although we somehow won last season - cracking team performance to be fair) and Nigel would’ve gone for a narrow defeat ?

First sub / tactical change seemed to change things but Villa were just better. I don’t especially rate Adomah but somehow he has a good game against us every time. 

Fair comment. I wasn't really suggesting that we play for a draw. Just a bit of pragmatism regarding team selection and then game management when we went 0-1 down. Not a criticism of Frank, who obviously wants to win every game. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

2 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

The league is rubbish...and it has been for ages, is is just getting worse and worse. 

 

You must watch too much Premier League and have not realised the gap between leagues has grown due to the money in that League. The league isn't rubbish at all, I think peoples expectations are too high.

[VulcanRam]

Grealish, Hourihane, Adomah, Kodija, Abraham, McGinn - they've got some real talent. I'd have all of those 5 at Derby. Second half yes we were all over the place, but they ripped us to pieces all over the pitch. I was impressed by them. 

Surprised not to see Johnson on, we were crying out for him at 0-0 when they were getting right on top of us. 

But not too concerned - we've been up and down for a while, looking ordinary in patches and looking amazing in patches. Unfortunately in a patch when we weren't on it yesterday, Villa took full advantage. All part of the game management learning for Frank and the players.

[ariotofmyown]

I thought we were de-railed a bit at the start of the 2nd half with lots of stoppages for injuries. I fully expected us to continue on from the last 5 mins of the 1st half when we were all over them.

The first 5-10 mins of the 2nd were just a succession of stoppages. I remember looking at the clock and it was down to about 37 mins and nothing at all had happened.  Mason went off on 51 mins too and our problems continued from there.

We maybe could hae done with Abrahams taking one of his 5 chances before they scored. When they did finally score, we were been run ragged and they twisted the knife. An earlier goal and they might have got more cagey and let us back in.

Villa Derby playoff final maybe? Lamps vs Terry. Would be an amazing atmosphere. Fair play to their fans yesterday, lots of songs. What the funk was that kum-bae-ah one all about though? Sounded like "on the pi ss, my lord, on the pi ss".

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

No didn't say that.

Just not sure how you can say a 2-0 defeat at Fulham was a capitulation yet 0-3 at home to Villa wasn't,  especially when it could quite easily have been 5 or 6.

Because at no point in time in the 2nd leg did we even try to win the game. Straight from the whistle we merely tried to not get beat. That's capitulation. Having a go and ending up losing is not.

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, 86 points said:

Because at no point in time in the 2nd leg did we even try to win the game. Straight from the whistle we merely tried to not get beat. That's capitulation. Having a go and ending up losing is not.

Playing devils advocate here but we didn't need to go to Fulham and win.