Topical TALKING POINTS ;)

[Chester40]

The way you have expressed things is slightly confused and the nature of the ideas pretty random.

But ...I will give you an answer..

Firstly, Clough and Lampard. I see no link except both have famous Dad's. Beyond that.. not much. Frank is a league above Nigel in standard of playing career. Nigel could possibly be seen as riding his Dad's managerial coat-tails, Frank hardly so! Frank offered the promise of contacts in the game and raising our profile, Nigel did not. Frank is charismatic and an obvious manager, Nigel was not.   Nigel did pretty well but we will be his limit, Frank will go all the way.

Mount v Hughes...is actually an interesting  comparison. I think Mount is probably more adventurous, better at striking the ball, more physical and demanding of the ball, Hughes is a better dribbler maybe,, both have lovely touch and range if passing. But they are close...I think Mount will go on to do more in his career and we are lucky to have him.

[Alph]

Hughes is playing every game for Watford and they rate him. I don't know or care if he's as good as Mount. Pearson, the poster, always said all Hughes does is sideways passing and he can't tackle. Nothing would change his mind and I doubt anything will change yours. Hughes is a superb tackler and if you think that teams only need a playmaker at the front making assists then you'd be wrong. For a team that passes through the pitch there comes this need for a safe pair of feet that recognises the best ball to the best option. To assist the assist that assists the assist etc. 

You probably didn't rate Iniesta or Xavi. Do you think their careers were full of defence splitting passes? 

 

Lampard v Clough... I don't get it.

Clough had support by most when he arrived. Some called him non league

Lampard had support when he arrived. Some said Morris has lost the plot

Clough never won more games than he lost in a season. He was here 5 years and at least 3 times he built a young hungry team showing promise and 2 of them times he reverted to 442 survival mode. Clough would often be negative tactically. Especially when taken a lead and playing away. Our cup record wasn't very good

Lampard has had less than 20 games. He's building a young hungry team showing promise. He's won more than he's lost. He's not gone negative at all and hasn't let defeats change his plan. Our cup record is good. 

That's the difference so far. It might be time to let Nigel Clough go. McClaren came in and took us to a level none of us expected under Nigel. 

I like Nigel. But he's gone. He was good considering the circumstances but not great. Which is why he's not managing a good team in this league.

[NottsRammy]

Nope your all missing the point on Clough and Lampard , I agree totally on the tactics and everything im not talking about that . For me Clough was negative , but I would have liked to have seen a clough with money . Not easy being positive when your in the bargain basement for players  !!. But im not starting that off again.

Im talking about the actual time of HIRING  most people called clough if they did for lack of experience and his surname . Surely those same people are happy to see Frank here yet there principle has altered as he had no experience what so ever.

[Steve How Hard?]

Am I in a parallel universe or is there a competition for the most pointless thread of the weekend? Hard to choose between the two contenders so far. 

[Sith Happens]

20 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Nope your all missing the point on Clough and Lampard , I agree totally on the tactics and everything im not talking about that . For me Clough was negative , but I would have liked to have seen a clough with money . Not easy being positive when your in the bargain basement for players  !!. But im not starting that off again.

Im talking about the actual time of HIRING  most people called clough if they did for lack of experience and his surname . Surely those same people are happy to see Frank here yet there principle has altered as he had no experience what so ever.

I dont recall there being an outcry about cloughs lack of experience. I think most people saw him as the steadying the ship appointment he ultimately was. The inexperience jibes were more from that lot down the road.

 

[Angry Ram]

15 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I dont recall there being an outcry about cloughs lack of experience. I think most people saw him as the steadying the ship appointment he ultimately was. The inexperience jibes were more from that lot down the road.

 

Exactly.  

[r4derby]

41 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Nope your all missing the point on Clough and Lampard , I agree totally on the tactics and everything im not talking about that . For me Clough was negative , but I would have liked to have seen a clough with money . Not easy being positive when your in the bargain basement for players  !!. But im not starting that off again.

Im talking about the actual time of HIRING  most people called clough if they did for lack of experience and his surname . Surely those same people are happy to see Frank here yet there principle has altered as he had no experience what so ever.

I’m not sure who you’ve been talking to, because that seems a view from a very small sample size. Clough took over when we were way down the league after a calamatious Prem season the year before. We had a bloated expensive squad that wasn’t performing in the league and Nigel came in to steady things. Most people saw that and thought it was a good decision or at least worth a go.

Nigel took 4 seasons to get us in the top half of the table. That’s an awfully long time to do anything, regardless of the clubs situation.

Frank has come in fresh of lots of seasons battling at the right end but to a team that doesn’t have an identity. He has quickly gone about changing that. So much so that if our loan players leave, we will be able to go and find a player who fits our system to try and make sure there’s a consistency. And he’s doing a good job at it so far!

This is a weird time to try and be smug. We all support Derby and have all endured the ups and downs. Sure we don’t agree on things and have opinions on manager and players. But why try and rub others faces in it? At least do a better job of it if that’s your plan

[G STAR RAM]

51 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Nope your all missing the point on Clough and Lampard , I agree totally on the tactics and everything im not talking about that . For me Clough was negative , but I would have liked to have seen a clough with money . Not easy being positive when your in the bargain basement for players  !!. But im not starting that off again.

Im talking about the actual time of HIRING  most people called clough if they did for lack of experience and his surname . Surely those same people are happy to see Frank here yet there principle has altered as he had no experience what so ever.

You're completely re-writing history here.

I seem to remember NC getting a lot of support when he came in.

And why are you assuming that the ones that thought NC shouldn't have been appointed think FL should have?

[Rev]

Your first point was only topical before we'd seen Frank's team kick a ball.

Now we've seen what he can offer as a manager, it's like comparing a saville row suit with an off the peg one from Eagle centre market.

 

[eddie]

Looks like someone forgot to lock the loony bin gates last night.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Nigel Cough came in at a difficult ttime and overall did a decent job. Over that time we never had that much budget and even though we could've changed manager several times, its doubtful we'd have been much better off for it.

Both clough and lampard got a bit of leeway due to their names.

Hughes is an ever present in an upwardly mobile premier league midfield.

Mount is very good.

Non of these are particularly urgent ppoints of discussion.

 

[i-Ram]

46 minutes ago, eddie said:

Looks like someone forgot to lock the loony bin gates last night.

You got out just to post that. Pfft.

[Millenniumram]

balls thread, where’s that idiot who’s supposed to be doing the match thread to give us something to talk about?!

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness it’ll be up later once I’ve finished travelling and actually got some signal 

[King Kevin]

2 hours ago, NottsRammy said:

Nope not embarrassing whats difference between Frank and Nigel at least nigel had managed yet we accepted Frank like he was a god and he hasn't even managed .

 

Don't get me wrong im all for Frank but I was all for Nigel as well , I just wantto know whats the difference ?

After reading your post I would say you after ten pints .

[uttoxram75]

What a waste of the extra hour!

[Boycie]

I actually just checked if this member was posting from Mexico.

[Steve How Hard?]

19 minutes ago, Boycie said:

I actually just checked if this member was posting from Mexico.

It's nacho fault that you got it wrong.

[May Contain Nuts]

4 hours ago, NottsRammy said:

Puts his tin hat on ? .

I don't think it's a tin hat you need, maybe a more permanent solution, like a lobotomy?

[Wolfie20]

5 hours ago, NottsRammy said:

Nope not embarrassing whats difference between Frank and Nigel at least nigel had managed yet we accepted Frank like he was a god and he hasn't even managed .

 

Don't get me wrong im all for Frank but I was all for Nigel as well , I just wantto know whats the difference ?

Apart from their totally different philosophies on how football should be played, it's simple. For me the difference is with Lampard in charge I have hope we can be successful, with Clough I didn't.

[ronnieronalde]

I don't like these kind of threads because it usually results in Nige getting stick he doesn't really deserve.

Frank is doing a brilliant job, he's much more media friendly and has been incredibly popular within the game for a long time. His relationship with Chelsea, Man City and probably another half a dozen top flight managers is superb. He's just stopped playing, so his contact list is full. it's fresh and strong. He's also managing a club that is healthy, one that is pushing for the top flight and is a natural place for top clubs to send their young talent.

Nigel took over 10 years after his playing career had ended and he spent those ten years at non league level so naturally didn't have the top level contacts Frank clearly has. There was no way top flight clubs were sending loans to Burton Albion. He took over when Derby were in the poo and at that point going backwards rapidly.

Nige is a good manager, he'll likely not be recognised as anything better than steady, and there will always be those who just don't rate him at all, which I think is a bit unfortunate. There's an interesting podcast by Robbie savage with Will Hughes and Henry Winter, who are all very complimentary about Nigel. I was going to link it but probably no point. Peoples minds are well and truly made up and possibly the fact it comes from Robbie would act as a negative.

For what its worth I though Robbie Savage did a great job for Nige, I never understood the stick he got either. Not a world beater but a real leader and a real man on the pitch and in the dressing room.

Frank has come in and he looks to playing a really refreshing brand of football, he looks as if he trusts and possibly favours youth, which is also refreshing. I don't pay attention to his pre match and only listen to his post match if you're on TV, which is pretty much week in week out these days, but it's clear to me already that Frank has a REAL chance to go right to the very top of tree (sub quoting Peter Taylor there) he looks to have the entire package. He's bright, he's popular, he's still at that age where he has a real connection with the players and they clearly like what hes doing as well AND so far it looks like he wants to play a cracking brand of football.

I'm the last person in the world to say he's got a bit of BC about him. There's only ever going to be one Brian Clough BUT I could understand those who may be getting a little bit excited by what he;s done so far. Of course the squad Frank has inherited is helping. 

Nigel and Frank? No need to compare the two, favourably or unfavourably, totally different people, totally different circumstances and with Mel at the helm it's even a totally different club.

Enjoy him while he's here and keep your fingers crossed he carries on in the way he's started. It's all looking good.