Kernow Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 The gap between the top of the Championship and the bottom of the PL really isn't that big. How many of the teams in the bottom half of the PL would definitely be good enough to finish in the top two? There wouldn't be many I'd be comfortable betting a large sum on. Boro, Hull and Sunderland came down. Boro are below us in the league, Hull have flirted with relegation for most of the season and Sunderland are all but down. Newcastle, Brighton and Hudds went up. Newcastle are now just about top-half, Brighton and Huddersfield both with a very good chance of survival. None have been eaten up by this step up in quality. The team that takes us up this season, if we do indeed go up, will clearly be nowhere near the same one tasked with the choice of keeping us up. We'll be boosted by a huge sum of a cash and have the ability to attract players we would previously have had no chance in getting in the Championship. Take the money, build a younger squad of real talent and see what happens. If we do go up and come straight back down, I'd be pretty confident that we'd be in a much stronger position to gain promotion in 2019/20 than if we spend next season in the Championship and don't go up then either. I think people are still too scarred from 2007/08. That won't happen again, to us or to anyone. This team is far too good in comparison to that team. The league is far more equal for any team that goes up to be that bad again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 As I understand it m-elvis the pelvis believes we have too high a wage bill - he's probably right although those figures were to 16/17 and some hefty earners have gone off the wage bill this year with a few to follow this summer. I would defo like to be in the prem next year as if not it sounds like we may have a squad a year older than it already is -and that is generally pretty old and a number of youngsters who are unlikely to pull up any trees . This equals a few midtable finishes or worse. I don't want to watch championship football forever 15 years out of 16 is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 42 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: As I understand it m-elvis the pelvis believes we have too high a wage bill - he's probably right although those figures were to 16/17 and some hefty earners have gone off the wage bill this year with a few to follow this summer. I would defo like to be in the prem next year as if not it sounds like we may have a squad a year older than it already is -and that is generally pretty old and a number of youngsters who are unlikely to pull up any trees . This equals a few midtable finishes or worse. I don't want to watch championship football forever 15 years out of 16 is enough. We also recruited quite a few players, who I suspect expected to be paid. How do you know our youngsters are unlikely to pull up any trees? Did you expect Jeff Hendrick to pull up any trees when he was in the Academy (and look at him now, and some were virtually saying he was average when we sold him)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, ramblur said: We also recruited quite a few players, who I suspect expected to be paid. How do you know our youngsters are unlikely to pull up any trees? Did you expect Jeff Hendrick to pull up any trees when he was in the Academy (and look at him now, and some were virtually saying he was average when we sold him)? Always liked Hendrick so yes I did expect him to play well in the first team . A midfielder who could play left and right footed with a good engine . very under rated when he was here and I was very disappointed we sold him . In the last nine months we have shipped out the three of the five highest earners as I understand it in Hughes, Ince and Martin -one on loan . Plus freed up Bent, Russell,Camara, blackman, Butterfield Shackell and Brysons wages . The wages we freed up in January alone plus money for Russell should pay Jeromes fee and wages till the summer. So yes i'm sure they are getting paid but we will still have a jolly old saving on wages over the last financial year.. I don't think our youngsters will pull up any trees because Bennett is likely to get a testimonial before he plays fifty first team games, Max lowe has potential but misses more games with hamstrings than a player twice his age. Callum guy may make a decent league one player but if he was going to do it here, he would have by now . Elsnik and Thomas are the most likely to make a fist of it but neither have an immediate he will improve impact like Hughes, Huddlestone or the afore mentioned Hendrick so can't see them propelling us to the top of the table . Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertRam Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Nobody can choose when they get promoted - that's the problem. So you have to take it when it comes round. After saying that, Wolves seem to have assured themselves a trip up, after a big spend, when everyone reckons its not possible. I had already decided that our 13/14 team just needed 3/4 good prem players to survive, and look what happened in 14/15 - we were'nt able to kick on and improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritty Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Always liked Hendrick so yes I did expect him to play well in the first team . A midfielder who could play left and right footed with a good engine . very under rated when he was here and I was very disappointed we sold him . In the last nine months we have shipped out the three of the five highest earners as I understand it in Hughes, Ince and Martin -one on loan . Plus freed up Bent, Russell,Camara, blackman, Butterfield Shackell and Brysons wages . The wages we freed up in January alone plus money for Russell should pay Jeromes fee and wages till the summer. So yes i'm sure they are getting paid but we will still have a jolly old saving on wages over the last financial year.. I don't think our youngsters will pull up any trees because Bennett is likely to get a testimonial before he plays fifty first team games, Max lowe has potential but misses more games with hamstrings than a player twice his age. Callum guy may make a decent league one player but if he was going to do it here, he would have by now . Elsnik and Thomas are the most likely to make a fist of it but neither have an immediate he will improve impact like Hughes, Huddlestone or the afore mentioned Hendrick so can't see them propelling us to the top of the table . Cheers We've had almost as many incomings as outgoings. Ledley, Huddlestone, Lawrence and Davies won't be on less than Hughes, Bryson, Butterfield, Ince etc. We signed players who played in the Prem. Your stuff on the youngsters is unnecessarily bleak. Yes; the truth is that few youngsters make it. Some do and sometimes it's the ones who didn't shine until they got a chance. We don't know which players will or will not prove good enough. To write them all off now is ott. There's enough sparks for me, to see if one of them can light a fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokidoki Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: As I understand it m-elvis the pelvis believes we have too high a wage bill I detect that a certain owner is now losing the thrill of running a pet football club and these are the first signs of his boredom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 9 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Always liked Hendrick so yes I did expect him to play well in the first team . A midfielder who could play left and right footed with a good engine . very under rated when he was here and I was very disappointed we sold him . In the last nine months we have shipped out the three of the five highest earners as I understand it in Hughes, Ince and Martin -one on loan . Plus freed up Bent, Russell,Camara, blackman, Butterfield Shackell and Brysons wages . The wages we freed up in January alone plus money for Russell should pay Jeromes fee and wages till the summer. So yes i'm sure they are getting paid but we will still have a jolly old saving on wages over the last financial year.. I don't think our youngsters will pull up any trees because Bennett is likely to get a testimonial before he plays fifty first team games, Max lowe has potential but misses more games with hamstrings than a player twice his age. Callum guy may make a decent league one player but if he was going to do it here, he would have by now . Elsnik and Thomas are the most likely to make a fist of it but neither have an immediate he will improve impact like Hughes, Huddlestone or the afore mentioned Hendrick so can't see them propelling us to the top of the table . Cheers 'I'd agree with your first paragraph, but would make the point that he (and Will) were allowed to develop into the players they became over a number of years. Circumstances allowed them to be given good runs when they first broke through, and they were allowed to make their mistakes and learn. Different circumstances also mean that our current crop of youngsters just don't get that same opportunity, so I'm not going to write anyone off that hasn't been given a fair crack of the whip. It must be soul destroying for young players (our players) to have to keep coming back from injuries (but also showing guts and determination), but I'm sure they must find some solace in your encouraging sarcasm , just as you might in mine. As far as the wages go, when comparing this year to 16/17, you've started with one major flaw. CM wasn't on our wage bill for most of 16/17, so rather than saving a half year's wages there, we gained one. As I'm feeling generous ( because we don't know what %age of his wages Burton are paying) I'll pair CM off with Benty, so they both disappear from your list. Again, being generous for a similar reason, I'll let you pair Shacks off with CJ. You could also pair JB off with Sam, so to then do a proper job we have to examine what's left. On the incoming side you've got Curtis,Tomx2, AW and JL, and as feisty pointed out there could be some high earners there, with them being on a full year's wage, or nearly. Now let's look at what's left of your list. You've got Will, Tom Ince, Camara, Bryson, Blackman and a half year of JR. Now show me where your great wage savings are. I find it too hard to call either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 12 hours ago, maxjam said: No offence taken, as I said I would love us to go up My concern is that Mel once said something along the lines of going up with the core of a squad we could build around whereas we have next to no one I'd play regularly in the Premiership at the moment. If we don't get promoted this season (which is looking increasingly likely imo) and given the growing financial restraints, I'd love us to properly scout and invest in youth which would enable us to fulfill Mel's dream in a couple of seasons time. If we do go up this season I can see us spending a fortune on mercenary players and sacking GR before Christmas. It's a bit of a romantic dream (and one that I share), but this League is hellish difficult to get out of, and the more teams that come down with these massive chute payments, the harder it's likely to get. Now I know you could say that relegated teams rarely go straight back up (and some even drop further), but the thing I've noticed is that the 3 years allow teams to come back strongly eventually, as per Fulham and Cardiff. If neither of Villa or Boro go up this year, they've both still got big payments coming their way in future years. I firmly believe we have to go up whenever we get the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I'm not bothered whether we go up or not. We learnt a painful lesson last time. we are not ready to compete, and would be better off trying to build a team rather than chasing a rainbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector was the best Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Honestly I’m not sure that I ever want to go up....so I will say yes we might as well go up his year as any other. The standard is so p1ss poor in the Championship and the Premiershite that I think the transition will be easy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 17 hours ago, Ambitious said: I'm going to play devils advocate here, but surely you can't trust Rowett in that case? In theory you don't want promotion because you believe that he will spend poorly and we will be much worse off for it. That's about the long and short of it I guess. Not just Rowett though, our whole player recruitment organisation seems completely haphazard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I understand the sentiment but you don't have a choice.........you play to win that's what sport is about! We may not be well prepared but could go up this season. We may be much better prepared next season and not go up. You don't choose the time you go up, good preparation or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Sam Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, curb said: That's about the long and short of it I guess. Not just Rowett though, our whole player recruitment organisation seems completely haphazard. good point, it goes back way before Rowett with the player recruitment problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Ram Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Not read the replies so this may have already been said. For me, promotion is very important. Not about staying up and competing, that would be an added bonus, but the fact that you can’t sustain a £7 million loss year on year regardless of who your chairman is. Promotion brings in enough money to secure our future for the next decade if used properly. For me that’s the reason to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 The bottom half of the prem is awful Id take the money and the chance at survival. Worse teams have gone up and survived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 On 09/04/2018 at 13:18, Rab a dab doo said: An opportunity for promotion is a bit like a bus, you don't know when the next one will come along. Unless you're at one of those bus stops with electronic signs telling you when the next bus will come along. Ignore me. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsy1884 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Money money and more money that is that only reason to go up. I don't get with teams going up and sacking the manager. Burnley have been a yoyo team with Dyche in charge but he has built them into a solid outfit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Derby Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I want us to go up so long as we get more than 11 points before Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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