Official: Will Hughes joins Watford

[Ninos]

34 minutes ago, r4derby said:

I get what you're saying here, but surely you see the irony in you saying that was the most frustrating post...

Evey chance you get, there's a dig at one of several players you don't like. Martin and Butterfield are two DCFC players under contract, turned up for preseason ready to knuckle down and work for the team. New season, new start for all players. Shame you can't just back the team and players

How do you know he's ready to knuckle down ? Interview ? We will see.

You can't just make magic from dirt. I just hope Rowett sees it. I was looking at jota highlights of when they played against us -4-0 defeat. Rumour of getting him prob false but That goal by jota - when we lose the ball the first player that goes to challenge just basically gives up, pretends to tackle but doesn't - and guess who it was - shocking really and he does it again and again. Was he deliberately not trying? He's taking the mick playing for us. Seriously. So Im not going to just gloss over posts which attempt to frame a so far utterly worthless player in the same breath as our two best, most entertaining and effective players. 

[Curtains]

 

[Leicester Ram]

Butterfield looked comfortable in the 10 role away at Birmingham this season and despite it going down as the keepers he effectively grabbed a goal too. 

I'd rather see Vydra there linking up with Martin/Nugent but Butterfield gives us a more creative option there.

If he starts to get a more aggressive killer instinct with his passing then he could show why he was a) decent in 15/16 and b) Huddersfield's POTY in 14/15 playing as a CAM.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

9 minutes ago, curtains said:

 

Our new #10 maybe, good montage that @curtains

[Warren Hobhead]

1 hour ago, curtains said:

 

Further forward like that this year please Mr Rowett. Linking with CM again. 

 

Big season for so many players, Butters especially. Hope he embraces this opportunity.

[Animal is a Ram]

Butterfield is a good player to have as Hughes has departed. Doesn't quite have the same technical ability or intelligence, but more goal threat.

Hope he can keep his discipline in check, one of only 2 Rams to be sent off last season. Doesn't quite pick up as many silly yellows as our kid did though - the only Ram to hit double figures in the same period.

[Wolfie20]

6 hours ago, Ninos said:

Embrace this time of transition ? You sound like a Forest fan taking the mick. This must rank as the most frustrating post I've seen on here, maybe ever.

Steve Martin is closer to Ron Howard than  Steve Howard is to Chris Martin. Battering rams don't fall over when breathed upon.

Next, Butterfield Express himself ? Jacob Butterfield? For real? Replace Will Hughes? For real ? Did you not see him play this past season? I can't think of a more negative wasteful footballer. He's the poster child for all that's wrong with our transfer dealings. Remember which team got rid of him? Where is that team headed now? Rather we take our chances on Elsnik. Bryson is far far better, far more positive.  May as well go with Maddison, Irvine, even Johnson in the role at this point, try to bully opposition midfields. Hughes creative and harrying style is irreplaceable at this level, unless we look abroad and unearth a magician midfielder. Don't diminish what we've really lost here. We've lost the two most exciting productive footballers we have, to the premier league. 

 

 

Wrong! Far more frustrating have been the silly posts criticising Martin - they've been downright absurd.

There's no doubt that Butterfield has the talent - when he was at Barnsley he gave the best performance by any visiting midfield player I've seen since we moved to Pride Park. We've hardly ever played him in his ideal position - as a link player just behind the central striker (which is where Will should have always played for us).

Given a chance in the right role he could prove to be our most influential player next season.

[ramblur]

On 6/26/2017 at 19:14, ramblur said:

Hmm,may have to revisit that bit. The accounting convention of conservatism dictates that you shouldn't anticipate profits that might not materialise (as in add ons re outgoing transfers),but on the other hand you should try to reflect all possible liabilities,thus painting a more 'gloomy' than 'optimistic' view of the accounts.The reason for this is that it's better to have a pleasant surprise,rather than a nasty shock.

I've noticed that the note 'Contingent Liabilities' in the accounts only deals with our potential liabilities to other clubs in terms of sell on clauses,and quantifies the maximum amount that might be paid. I'm sure we must have add on arrangements (incoming transfers) with other clubs that aren't related to sell on clauses. This makes me think that these must be provided for in the accounts.

As far as the sell on elements go,these can only occur (obviously) if we receive transfer fees,so there is no 'shock' involved there-just receiving less money than we would have without such clause,but something we'd always have been aware of.

Feck it,I'm really tired now -should have kept my beak out of it 

Got a feeling I've talked rubbish here,as I can't work out the nuts and bolts of what I'm suggesting,and I'm not sure that valuing an asset at a 'cost',some of which might not materialise sits easily with 'Conservatism'. This needs some @Diag Ram input,methinks.

[EnigmaRam]

9 minutes ago, ramblur said:

Got a feeling I've talked rubbish here,as I can't work out the nuts and bolts of what I'm suggesting,and I'm not sure that valuing an asset at a 'cost',some of which might not materialise sits easily with 'Conservatism'. This needs some @Diag Ram input,methinks.

Yep, still not following!! ??

[ramblur]

2 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Yep, still not following!! ??

Unfortunately I've joined you. Football is so different to other industries in some respects.Not many value some employees on the balance sheet. I put my hand up and confess I just don't know on this issue.

[May Contain Nuts]

8 hours ago, Ninos said:

I can't think of a more negative wasteful footballer.

I'm not a great fan of Butterfield as I don't think he imposes himself on games, and his goalscoring in 2015/16 was occasionally hiding his overall performance level.

However, a player  is sometimes only as negative as the tactics of his manager.

Positive, forward thinking,  attacking play lead to him creating more chances than anyone else in the league at Huddersfield, as evidenced here.

He has the ability, but balance is key.

What he isn't is a 'box to box' midfielder, he just doesn't have the engine for that, but placed in a  team with a committed DM and allowed to get forward, he is perfectly capable of getting 7-10 goals for us this season

 

This video starts off pretty poorly, under Clement, but by the time Wassall got hold of him he was an important part of our attacking play

 

 

[EnigmaRam]

Butterfield is a bit meh for me. Never really warned to him but there's time for him now to step up. Can't even see where he fits in a 4231 or a 433

[PistoldPete2]

8 minutes ago, Coconut said:

I'm not a great fan of Butterfield as I don't think he imposes himself on games, and his goalscoring in 2015/16 was occasionally hiding his overall performance level.

However, a player  is sometimes only as negative as the tactics of his manager.

Positive, forward thinking,  attacking play lead to him creating more chances than anyone else in the league at Huddersfield, as evidenced here.

He has the ability, but balance is key.

What he isn't is a 'box to box' midfielder, he just doesn't have the engine for that, but placed in a  team with a committed DM and allowed to get forward, he is perfectly capable of getting 7-10 goals for us this season

 

This video starts off pretty poorly, under Clement, but by the time Wassall got hold of him he was an important part of our attacking play

 

 

In the picture butterfield is actually smiling. Ince is looking grumpy. Is there a picture of them both smiling?

[Ninos]

49 minutes ago, Coconut said:

I'm not a great fan of Butterfield as I don't think he imposes himself on games, and his goalscoring in 2015/16 was occasionally hiding his overall performance level.

However, a player  is sometimes only as negative as the tactics of his manager.

Positive, forward thinking,  attacking play lead to him creating more chances than anyone else in the league at Huddersfield, as evidenced here.

He has the ability, but balance is key.

What he isn't is a 'box to box' midfielder, he just doesn't have the engine for that, but placed in a  team with a committed DM and allowed to get forward, he is perfectly capable of getting 7-10 goals for us this season

 

This video starts off pretty poorly, under Clement, but by the time Wassall got hold of him he was an important part of our attacking play

 

 

What do I see there? Its okay but it's him -   Get the ball drop back, turn and launch a pass forward, coupled with a few nice long range goals. This is him at his very best so it's actually worrying.

First he can't tackle or head the ball. Let's get that out the way first. He's one of the worst players in the league without the ball.

Second, he cannot nor does he hardly ever dribble and beat a player at pace because he doesn't have the attacking ball skills nor the pace. He's super slow.

Third, he's no leader at all - quiet, uninspiring. He's totally unlikely to raise the game of any around him.

So what does he offer? He's solid with the ball under no or light pressure and he's capable of threading very good penetrating passes. Problem is that he's a fairly static player off the ball himself and dcfc have been so static up front for the past few seasons, it's been like watching statues (think Bent) - so no clever runners off the ball means he doesn't get many opps to thread anything. (He could benefit from the running of Vydra and nugent but they will unlikely be paired.) 

Finally, He likes to shoot and when on form can bag a few goals ... but ... his shot to goal ratio this past season must have been one of the worst in all the leagues. Someone do the stats and they'll see. He scored one deflected goal vs his old team, that was it. He's gotten worse since coming to us. 

 

[Rev]

7 minutes ago, Ninos said:

What do I see there? Its okay but it's him -   Get the ball drop back, turn and launch a pass forward, coupled with a few nice long range goals. This is him at his very best so it's actually worrying.

First he can't tackle or head the ball. Let's get that out the way first. He's one of the worst players in the league without the ball.

Second, he cannot nor does he hardly ever dribble and beat a player at pace because he doesn't have the attacking ball skills nor the pace. He's super slow.

Third, he's no leader at all - quiet, uninspiring. He's totally unlikely to raise the game of any around him.

So what does he offer? He's solid with the ball under no or light pressure and he's capable of threading very good penetrating passes. Problem is that he's a fairly static player off the ball himself and dcfc have been so static up front for the past few seasons, it's been like watching statues (think Bent) - so no clever runners off the ball means he doesn't get many opps to thread anything. (He could benefit from the running of Vydra and nugent but they will unlikely be paired.) 

Finally, He likes to shoot and when on form can bag a few goals ... but ... his shot to goal ratio this past season must have been one of the worst in all the leagues. Someone do the stats and they'll see. He scored one deflected goal vs his old team, that was it. He's gotten worse since coming to us. 

 

He'll be fine, now he's got a super mobile target man in front of him to play off. 

Most goals from a midfielder in the league, season before last wasn't it?

[May Contain Nuts]

16 minutes ago, Ninos said:

What do I see there? Its okay but it's him -   Get the ball drop back, turn and launch a pass forward, coupled with a few nice long range goals. This is him at his very best so it's actually worrying.

First he can't tackle or head the ball. Let's get that out the way first. He's one of the worst players in the league without the ball.

Second, he cannot nor does he hardly ever dribble and beat a player at pace because he doesn't have the attacking ball skills nor the pace. He's super slow.

Third, he's no leader at all - quiet, uninspiring. He's totally unlikely to raise the game of any around him.

So what does he offer? He's solid with the ball under no or light pressure and he's capable of threading very good penetrating passes. Problem is that he's a fairly static player off the ball himself and dcfc have been so static up front for the past few seasons, it's been like watching statues (think Bent) - so no clever runners off the ball means he doesn't get many opps to thread anything. (He could benefit from the running of Vydra and nugent but they will unlikely be paired.) 

Finally, He likes to shoot and when on form can bag a few goals ... but ... his shot to goal ratio this past season must have been one of the worst in all the leagues. Someone do the stats and they'll see. He scored one deflected goal vs his old team, that was it. He's gotten worse since coming to us.

He has his limitations, which isn't something I would argue against because, as I said, I'm not his biggest fan.

...but your argument is that he's a "Wasteful, negative footballer"! not only that, but the most negative wasteful footballer you've ever seen! Do you not remember Paul Thirlwell!? Your point has been disproven and you've changed the argument to one about his overall play, and that's fine, but it's also beside the point.

You've also previously tried to claim that Bradley Johnson is a supemely talented footballer, and claimed that an untried and recently injured 20 year old youth team player should be our main, starting, LONE striker in a 4-3-3, and that you've had a few too many knocks to the head in your youth ( ) so.....

[r4derby]

I think what I like most is that this thread has become about 2 things - Butterfield and FFP, neither of which have are directly about Will Hughes. I know, I miss him too.

[Gritty]

All this stuff about players like Butterfield being rubbish is just OTT. 

Actually, I reckon just about all our players (including Blackman) are very good championship players when played in their favoured position and in a style of football that suits them.

The issue is that we are adopting a different style and that we have too many players being asked to play in a style that doesn't suit them.  I believe that if Hughes had stayed he wouldn't have been a regular for this reason (doesn't suit GR style).

Butterfield is excellent if we play to his strengths. Ditto Johnson (look at Norwich that year). Issue is we can't play to all their strengths right now as not all compatible.  So we need a different blend to suit GR style.

[Anag Ram]

I would say Butterfield's main strength is his shooting ability.

If he can recapture that then he's worth a start.

It's been there in the past but we've not seen it much at Derby

 

 

[Rab a dab doo]

Both Butterfield and Johnson were regular scorers for their previous  clubs as was Bryson for us. We have goals in our midfield players to supplement those from our forwards.It has always been our poor defending particularly at set pieces that has let us down.