TuffLuff Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, EnigmaRam said: I seem to remember a certain sissoko having a rubbish season in a relegated team then have a couple of Hal's decent games in an international tournament to go for £25 mil so it does make a difference. hes gone, Rowetts cocked up and we know it. As for last season, did he really have a bad season or was it more the majority of the team did, changing managers and styles hurt his game and made him look poor? It's hard to carry a team each and every game. put a proper DM behind him and a runner next to him and he is twice the player To be honest, I think all players would be twice the player if you out everything in place to suit them. Its like saying Darren Bent would be twice the striker if you put in a proper hold up player and an out and out winger on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 He's gone, ultimately we will gain more money for him in the future but he is now at an apparent higher level so our job is to get to the same higher level and you never know we may replace Watford and we could get him back playing for us. Our job now is promotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 4 hours ago, LazloW said: Yep, clearly after a good 88 mins or so against the german u21 team (the only game he was selected in) would have overriden the five years of scouting people have been doing on Will and doubled his value overnight. I doubt anybody would have known about him before last night and it would clearly have started a bidding war between Real and Barcelona for his services. Give over. Following his worst season for us Hendrick hit the crossbar twice in the Euros and was worth £10,500,000. You're naive if you're seriously poo-pooing the effect a performance in a tournament has on transfer values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Sparkle said: He's gone, ultimately we will gain more money for him in the future but he is now at an apparent higher level so our job is to get to the same higher level and you never know we may replace Watford and we could get him back playing for us. Our job now is promotion That was always our job. Looks less likely now that we sold our most talented player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 minute ago, cannable said: Following his worst season for us Hendrick hit the crossbar twice in the Euros and was worth £10,500,000. Yes that is true but he also had performed well against in big games against the likes of Brazil Argentina Italy France Germany at international level and certinatly performed well for us in local Derby's against forest and big games such as play offs so for me the fee of £10.5 million was a ball park figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Highgate said: That was always our job. Looks less likely now that we sold our most talented player. I will agree to differ on the promotion angle, a good recent example would be Billy Davies immediately selling Idiakez and player of the year Tommy Smith with the result of promotion and I don't think Rowett will play anything like Davies side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 40 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: To be honest, I think all players would be twice the player if you out everything in place to suit them. Its like saying Darren Bent would be twice the striker if you put in a proper hold up player and an out and out winger on the pitch. You say this like it's a bad thing? (Apologies if I'm misreading the intent behind your post, but this kind of point gets raised on here all of the time anyway, so don't take it personally if so.) I don't get the obsession with players being able to perform the same no matter what's going on around them. It's team game and no player plays in isolation - if you have a choice between setting the team up so players are 'twice the player' or not, it's really not a difficult decision, is it? McClaren's team worked so well because the pieces fit together - Eustace/Thorne gave Hughes and Bryson license to roam, Martin's hold up play gave Bryson and the wingers someone to pivot off, the midfield runners created space for Martin, we kept the ball well which meant out ball playing defenders weren't under pressure, and allowed them to actually play out from the back and so on and so on. Every player's skill-set complemented every other player's. Every player was doing what they are good at, and avoiding having to do what they're bad at. When Thorne, Eustace and Martin etc got injured, we lost all that, because Mascarell and Bent couldn't do the jobs that the guys they were replacing were doing. So players went from being 'twice the player' to fighting to even be allowed to do what they're good at. And the subsequent seasons have just been a litany of ridiculous tactical and transfer decisions - trying to play possession football with Shackell and Johnson in the team, asking Martin to 'run the channels' with no midfield support, playing long-ball up to Vydra, playing Bryson as a holding midfielder and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Deliberately avoided this thread last night because I could guess what would be being said. 2 good passes and an assist last night but that should not hide the fact that the midfield were awful. Arnold absolutely ran the show while our midfield chased shadows. Anyone who thinks our midfield came out of that game with any credit were not watching very closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 19 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: You say this like it's a bad thing? (Apologies if I'm misreading the intent behind your post, but this kind of point gets raised on here all of the time anyway, so don't take it personally if so.) I don't get the obsession with players being able to perform the same no matter what's going on around them. It's team game and no player plays in isolation - if you have a choice between setting the team up so players are 'twice the player' or not, it's really not a difficult decision, is it? McClaren's team worked so well because the pieces fit together - Eustace/Thorne gave Hughes and Bryson license to roam, Martin's hold up play gave Bryson and the wingers someone to pivot off, the midfield runners created space for Martin, we kept the ball well which meant out ball playing defenders weren't under pressure, and allowed them to actually play out from the back and so on and so on. Every player's skill-set complemented every other player's. Every player was doing what they are good at, and avoiding having to do what they're bad at. When Thorne, Eustace and Martin etc got injured, we lost all that, because Mascarell and Bent couldn't do the jobs that the guys they were replacing were doing. So players went from being 'twice the player' to fighting to even be allowed to do what they're good at. And the subsequent seasons have just been a litany of ridiculous tactical and transfer decisions - trying to play possession football with Shackell and Johnson in the team, asking Martin to 'run the channels' with no midfield support, playing long-ball up to Vydra, playing Bryson as a holding midfielder and so on. I was admittingly playing a little devils advocate because we say 'well if he had this and this we'd get the best out of him' while we have never played to Bents strengths, but we just take to be not good enough. This is from someone who isn't a big Bent fan. Fully agree with everything else though really in that we need to make a unit which suits every players attributes. In fact I just made a thread on a similar note in that we need to build a unit and that might mean that we get rid of our more luxery players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, TuffLuff said: To be honest, I think all players would be twice the player if you out everything in place to suit them. Its like saying Darren Bent would be twice the striker if you put in a proper hold up player and an out and out winger on the pitch. Isn't that what you do and the manager should be doing? Getting the right mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Isn't that what you do and the manager should be doing? Getting the right mix? Yes, as I've already written I was playing a bit of devils advicate with it really. Trying to say you could say that for all the players in the team if you wanted to. Although I don't think getting the right mix will happen unless we get rid of some players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 49 minutes ago, Sparkle said: I will agree to differ on the promotion angle, a good recent example would be Billy Davies immediately selling Idiakez and player of the year Tommy Smith with the result of promotion and I don't think Rowett will play anything like Davies side. I hope you are right, but I'm not feeling too confident about it at the moment. We've taken a backward step in my opinion. Generally speaking, selling the best player at the club (particularly when they are so young and with years of potential improvement ahead of them) rarely benefits a club unless they receive a massive fee, which we seemed determined not to get by selling so early in the transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Highgate said: I hope you are right, but I'm not feeling too confident about it at the moment. We've taken a backward step in my opinion. Generally speaking, selling the best player at the club (particularly when they are so young and with years of potential improvement ahead of them) rarely benefits a club unless they receive a massive fee, which we seemed determined not to get by selling so early in the transfer window. The end of the clubs financial year (June) may have had something to do with that but we will see in the long run, anyway last year I was extremely uncomfortable with having Pearson as manager which proved to be right but I don't feel that way at all under Rowett and I am looking forward to the new season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, Sparkle said: The end of the clubs financial year (June) may have had something to do with that but we will see in the long run, anyway last year I was extremely uncomfortable with having Pearson as manager which proved to be right but I don't feel that way at all under Rowett and I am looking forward to the new season In a year which had already featured big profits on sales of players' regs + a large loan fee,if we needed a further big profit to stay within FFP, then we'd be in big,big trouble this year. I'd be fairly confident the Hughes sale had nothing to do with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 The great beauty of Brian&Peter's approach was that they were more interested in what players could do,rather than what they couldn't (Hinton couldn't tackle,but could pinpoint crosses and shoot with venom.O'Hare had no pace,but could get a ball under control and bring others into play),so they patiently picked up the pieces of their jigsaw until the picture was complete. Our problem is that we've probably got the pieces from 3 different jigsaws jumbled together,with none of them being complete. Gary has to be given time to complete his own jigsaw,and discard existing pieces that don't fit,whoever they may be.Whilst I might be disappointed about some things he might do,I'll only pass judgement well into the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, cannable said: Following his worst season for us Hendrick hit the crossbar twice in the Euros and was worth £10,500,000. You're naive if you're seriously poo-pooing the effect a performance in a tournament has on transfer values. Not sure I said that performance in a tournament couldn't have an effect on transfer value; I was saying that I don't think one performance in the u21s would have had any effect on Will's transfer value or the number of clubs who might be interested (was responding to various comments on here prior to my initial comment). I might be wrong. Guess we will never know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Highgate said: I hope you are right, but I'm not feeling too confident about it at the moment. We've taken a backward step in my opinion. Generally speaking, selling the best player at the club (particularly when they are so young and with years of potential improvement ahead of them) rarely benefits a club unless they receive a massive fee, which we seemed determined not to get by selling so early in the transfer window. But he didn't look anything like the best player at the club last year. None of the midfielders had good years and he was one of them. Ince was far and away our best player and has been consistently since he arrived. We will see this season just how much we miss Hughes or not. I don't think we will miss him. Because I didn't see him fitting into the system GR will go with. We may still lose Ince. Then, then we will be losing our best player and then I will be much more concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 10 hours ago, eddie said: It's been clear to anybody with half a brain that Will Hughes is a better player when there are better players around him. Watford will be a stepping-stone for him and I am sure that he will thrive in the Premier league. I would not bet against him ending up in Spain though - and sooner rather than later. Good to see you back @eddie, In the abscence of a decent cat we've had to put up with heads badly photoshopped onto different bodies (Quite funny though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 14 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said: Good to see you back @eddie, In the abscence of a decent cat we've had to put up with heads badly photoshopped onto different bodies (Quite funny though). Watch what you're saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said: Watch what you're saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.