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Alan Nixon summer 2017

RiddingsRam

By RiddingsRam
in Transfer Forum

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Mistaram

Mistaram

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, John Doe said:

This isn’t directly aimed at you necessarily, more generally all to those who think this about Lawrence and Kent. 

How many times have you seen these players LIVE in order to make the judgement that they are so much better than what we currently have, and are going to make this huge impact at our club?

What are you, and others, basing your opinion on that these players are so much better than what we have?  In what way would they fit in to the system Rowett wants to play better than the current players?  What attributes do these players have, that our current players don’t have, that will significantly improve our fortunes in the way you foresee?

I am genuinely curious, because I have seen both of these players live only twice (all last season), and couldn’t give you an answer to any of the above, as 90 minutes (Lawrence) and 105 minutes (Kent) is not really enough for me, personally, to have an informed view?

Lawrence had, based on reports, a good season at Ipswich last year.  However, in the two games I saw live, he was a sub in the game at PP, making a decent, if not spectacular impact, and in the game at Portman Road he, along with most of the Ipswich side, was utter gash and was yanked off at HT.  If I were to judge signing him based on these two performances, I would say no.  Even more so for the £7m+ price tag being thrown about.

As for Kent, again I have only seen him a couple of times live.  He had a brief cameo in the game at PP, although he did standout in the game at Oakwell.  Again, if I were to base this signing on, arguably, this single performance, I would probably say yes?  However, from memory, I could give you single game performances by our current players (Weimann – play-off 2nd leg v Hull 15/16, Russell v Bolton at home 15/16), which would be at least on a par, if not better, than the Kent performance.  So basing any signing on a single performance is risky.

Now, I would imagine Rowett and his staff will have watched these players many more times than this, so I will trust their judgement.  But I would suggest the average Rams fan won’t have seen these players LIVE any more than I have, so am interested to understand how they reach their opinion on these players?

Yes agree with you I have only seen thee two the same times as you have although I did see Kent against Inter for Liverpool on tele he was outstanding you don't give a player a 5year contract if he's no good Will they fit in the way Rowett wants to play well I've watched 15of his matches and I still couldn't tell you how he wants to play I think most fans don't really mind who comes in because they must be an improvement on some of the current squad 

 

 

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Derbados said:

I think yesterday concerned Rowett more than he was letting on, I think initially he was only looking at Lawrence but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he brings a couple more on top of that in after yesterday's showing.

Same old faces letting the manager down yet again

Mac could have told him that!

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John Doe

John Doe

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Is it not obvious for Lawrence in particular? We're lacking goals and he was one of the top scoring wingers in this league last season. No one knows if he'll suit the system we play unless they've watched him a lot, but at the minute the wingers we currently have don't even suit it properly, so he can't be much worse. And I think most would agree that the reported £7 million fee is way too much, particularly for a player in the last year of his contract, but after seeing little to no change in the opening two games from recent seasons, many (not me) are quite happy for us to overpay just so they can see some change.

As for Kent, the fact so many teams are linked with him and Liverpool appeared insistent he got a new long term deal would suggest he has the talent. Many Liverpool fans wanted him to stay and feature for them in the cups rather than go out on loan, so that's another good indication he's quite good.

At this level it's rare for many/any of the fans to have seen a lot of potential signings because they're either being signed from fellow Football League clubs who are only on TV 5 or 6 times a season, or are struggling for game time at Premier League clubs. So usually we have to go off of stats and opposing fan's opinions.

For me Cam, not totally.  I’m not saying Lawrence is not a good player, nor a player without potential, just that I’ve not seen enough of him, or indeed Ipswich (and how they played), to gauge whether he would be a good fit for us or not.  In 14/15 and 15/16, Johnny Russell was one of the top scoring wingers in the league.  He’s not anymore, so who’s to say Lawrence will continue to be as a Derby player?  Not saying he will or won’t, just no guarantees.  This is why, as a fan, you trust the manager has seen enough of the player to make that judgement.

Regarding Kent.  As I said in the original post, from what I saw at Oakwell, Kent is clearly a talent and Liverpool handing him a 5-year extension would suggest as much.  I was just trying to play devil’s advocate and offer the opinion that it is risky to base any player judgement on a single appearance.

You are correct, also, in what you say in the last paragraph.  That is why I was curious as to what opinions were being based on.  For me, stats/opinions only tell part of the story.  I would say that Jesse Lingaard's stats weren't great for us in his loan spell, and my overriding opinion when he went back was that he wouldn't make it at Man Utd.

 

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Sparkle

Sparkle

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, John Doe said:

For me Cam, not totally.  I’m not saying Lawrence is not a good player, nor a player without potential, just that I’ve not seen enough of him, or indeed Ipswich (and how they played), to gauge whether he would be a good fit for us or not.  In 14/15 and 15/16, Johnny Russell was one of the top scoring wingers in the league.  He’s not anymore, so who’s to say Lawrence will continue to be as a Derby player?  Not saying he will or won’t, just no guarantees.  This is why, as a fan, you trust the manager has seen enough of the player to make that judgement.

Regarding Kent.  As I said in the original post, from what I saw at Oakwell, Kent is clearly a talent and Liverpool handing him a 5-year extension would suggest as much.  I was just trying to play devil’s advocate and offer the opinion that it is risky to base any player judgement on a single appearance.

You are correct, also, in what you say in the last paragraph.  That is why I was curious as to what opinions were being based on.  For me, stats/opinions only tell part of the story.  I would say that Jesse Lingaard's stats weren't great for us in his loan spell, and my overriding opinion when he went back was that he wouldn't make it at Man Utd.

 

I agree with the lingard bit in fact I thought he made us worse as a team

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Ramarena

Ramarena

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, John Doe said:

This isn’t directly aimed at you necessarily, more generally all to those who think this about Lawrence and Kent. 

How many times have you seen these players LIVE in order to make the judgement that they are so much better than what we currently have, and are going to make this huge impact at our club?

What are you, and others, basing your opinion on that these players are so much better than what we have?  In what way would they fit in to the system Rowett wants to play better than the current players?  What attributes do these players have, that our current players don’t have, that will significantly improve our fortunes in the way you foresee?

I am genuinely curious, because I have seen both of these players live only twice (all last season), and couldn’t give you an answer to any of the above, as 90 minutes (Lawrence) and 105 minutes (Kent) is not really enough for me, personally, to have an informed view?

Lawrence had, based on reports, a good season at Ipswich last year.  However, in the two games I saw live, he was a sub in the game at PP, making a decent, if not spectacular impact, and in the game at Portman Road he, along with most of the Ipswich side, was utter gash and was yanked off at HT.  If I were to judge signing him based on these two performances, I would say no.  Even more so for the £7m+ price tag being thrown about.

As for Kent, again I have only seen him a couple of times live.  He had a brief cameo in the game at PP, although he did standout in the game at Oakwell.  Again, if I were to base this signing on, arguably, this single performance, I would probably say yes?  However, from memory, I could give you single game performances by our current players (Weimann – play-off 2nd leg v Hull 15/16, Russell v Bolton at home 15/16), which would be at least on a par, if not better, than the Kent performance.  So basing any signing on a single performance is risky.

Now, I would imagine Rowett and his staff will have watched these players many more times than this, so I will trust their judgement.  But I would suggest the average Rams fan won’t have seen these players LIVE any more than I have, so am interested to understand how they reach their opinion on these players?

Who the hell do you think you are coming on here and talking sense like that???????

 

bet you've never won the prem on football manager with an attitude like that!

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DCFC1388

DCFC1388

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Derbados said:

I think yesterday concerned Rowett more than he was letting on, I think initially he was only looking at Lawrence but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he brings a couple more on top of that in after yesterday's showing.

Same old faces letting the manager down yet again

I agree with this but I think outgoings will dictate the number of incomings, big 2 weeks to follow.

Ideally id expect Rowett would like 5 or 6 out whether loan or perm then 2 or 3 in as well as Lawrence

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Jimbo Ram

Jimbo Ram

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

I agree with this but I think outgoings will dictate the number of incomings, big 2 weeks to follow.

Ideally id expect Rowett would like 5 or 6 out whether loan or perm then 2 or 3 in as well as Lawrence

We need Lawrence, creative midfielder and speedy winger in, then as you say, try and get 45 or 6 out....

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Kyle guest

Kyle guest

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

I have Anya down as a very useful utility player who can fill in at LB, RB, LW or RW. We overpaid for him but I don't think it'd be wise to get rid.

Good utility man don't get me wrong but too small to play left back and right back imo, he can't even get on the bench at the minute either and if we were to sign Callum Mcmanaman he'd be even further down the pecking order

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