Mostyn6 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said: We had our pants down again with Vydra. Not worth anywhere near the amount we paid. I said this about Anya, but what has the price got to do with anything? He's either good or he isn't. When you go for a steak in a nice restaurant, do you care about how much the restaurant paid for the ingredients? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: Apart from the fact that he did. Well the Ast Ref flagged him so technically he did not. Haven't seen the replay but IIRR Ince's ball to him was forward rather than backward suggesting Vydra was ahead of the ball ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Ask McClaren what he thinks. I'm betting his ponytail is on the Czech. Vydra is just getting warmed up. Martina is a spent force (and I use the word force very loosely) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Depends if either Vydra or the system can adapt. As with most of our signings since January 2015, he's no better or worse, just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BranstonRam Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Vydra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 12 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: I said this about Anya, but what has the price got to do with anything? He's either good or he isn't. When you go for a steak in a nice restaurant, do you care about how much the restaurant paid for the ingredients? I just don't think he's worth that amount, regardless of what system he is played in. Obviously it's not my money which has brought him here, but I just don't like seeing us pay such ridiculous sums. Was only ten years ago Reading produced the 106 team by buying the likes of Kevin Doyle and Shane Long for a combined 80k, Dave Kitson cost them 200k, Sidwell was a freebie. Leroy Lita at 1m was dubbed a big-money signing back then. English football has gone though in terms of finances. 8m is probabaly standard for a supposed decent Championship striker these days. As for Vydra's ability, I just feel he will need to adapt. I personally can't see us having such success in the 433 system with a forward who likes to run in behind, especially as our midfielders don't push right up. Maybe if we switched to 4231 and used Vydra how Southampton use Shane Long on his own it could work, but then we'd need two really mobile and reliable holding players. Could Thorne, Johnson and Hughes as an advanced AM work? I'm not sure. For me Johnson, Hughes and Butterfield isn't a mobile enough three to allow the centre-forward to play on the shoulder and not take up number 10 positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 20 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: I just don't think he's worth that amount, regardless of what system he is played in. Obviously it's not my money which has brought him here, but I just don't like seeing us pay such ridiculous sums. Was only ten years ago Reading produced the 106 team by buying the likes of Kevin Doyle and Shane Long for a combined 80k, Dave Kitson cost them 200k, Sidwell was a freebie. Leroy Lita at 1m was dubbed a big-money signing back then. English football has gone though in terms of finances. 8m is probabaly standard for a supposed decent Championship striker these days. As for Vydra's ability, I just feel he will need to adapt. I personally can't see us having such success in the 433 system with a forward who likes to run in behind, especially as our midfielders don't push right up. Maybe if we switched to 4231 and used Vydra how Southampton use Shane Long on his own it could work, but then we'd need two really mobile and reliable holding players. Could Thorne, Johnson and Hughes as an advanced AM work? I'm not sure. For me Johnson, Hughes and Butterfield isn't a mobile enough three to allow the centre-forward to play on the shoulder and not take up number 10 positions. Answered your own question there I guess? Didn't Sheff Weds play 433 with Foriestieri as their centre forward last year? Not too dissimilar to Vydra. I'd like to think that if we pushed Johnson further forward and played somebody else in the defensive role her could hold the ball up pretty well and it'd allow us to have Vydra on the shoulder with Johnson occupying the space between the lines that Vydra would create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Answered your own question there I guess? Didn't Sheff Weds play 433 with Foriestieri as their centre forward last year? Not too dissimilar to Vydra. I'd like to think that if we pushed Johnson further forward and played somebody else in the defensive role her could hold the ball up pretty well and it'd allow us to have Vydra on the shoulder with Johnson occupying the space between the lines that Vydra would create. They played Joao upfront, then Hooper as a lone centre-forward with Forestieri roaming around. I think they're very different players personally, as I see FF as a playmaker and Vydra as a striker. From what I've seen of Vydra, he doesn't strike me as a creative player or a link-up striker. His main attributes are running into space behind, very much in the mould of Darren Bent. Now, whether he can be coached into coming short I don't know. It is good to have the option of a player running in behind, but only if your midfielders are creative and hardworking enough to do more than one job. IMO, Bradley Johnson isn't mobile enough or quick enough with the ball at his feet to play a forward or advanced role in a possession-based team. He's at his best in our system playing as a holding midfielder, but even there I have reservations over him. Good game against Leeds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irobinson Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Vydra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: They played Joao upfront, then Hooper as a lone centre-forward with Forestieri roaming around. I think they're very different players personally, as I see FF as a playmaker and Vydra as a striker. From what I've seen of Vydra, he doesn't strike me as a creative player or a link-up striker. His main attributes are running into space behind, very much in the mould of Darren Bent. Now, whether he can be coached into coming short I don't know. It is good to have the option of a player running in behind, but only if your midfielders are creative and hardworking enough to do more than one job. IMO, Bradley Johnson isn't mobile enough or quick enough with the ball at his feet to play a forward or advanced role in a possession-based team. He's at his best in our system playing as a holding midfielder, but even there I have reservations over him. Good game against Leeds though. Fair enough. I think he could, I think he's definitely got a lot more technical ability than Bent, faster than Bent and fresher than Bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 5 hours ago, DCFC4LIFE said: Who do you think? Great thread,caused chaos in my house. Everyone's arguing about it. Vydra...Martin....both..Vydra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I'm definitely in the both camp for various reasons. Namely as a different option and to see how well they could work together. BRING HIM HOME Schteve. You know it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Knew this thread would be like this before I opened it, mostly reasoned arguements but some Chris Martin lovers who wouldn't except Lionel messi if he came to play upfront because he's " not a big hold up man". If vydra ain't worth 8 million in today's market then I'm blown. This is the same bloke that absolutely tore the championship to shreds twice in 3 years certainly not Darren bent mark 2. People need to realise Martin is past his best at this level, there comes a point when his fitness levels catch up with him, especially at the pace of the championship with the number of games, and sadly his time is up- his goalscoring record in 2016 proves this. He was a great great player in a team built to him but it's time to move on. Imo saying vydra can't play This system is absurd, yes he's better with a hold up man and I was apoplectic when we didn't sign a Martin replacement to go with him, but he's definately got the all round game to play the lone striker role with a little bit of work on how we play the ball to him- but it shouldn't be anything too different. Right now there's no arguement imo, Vydra is hugely better than Martin, especially now- there may have been an arguement a year or two ago but martins time is over, vydras best is still to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Vydra looks a very good player...his positioning is excellent.. he could have scored a couple more already this season from headers directly at the keeper and had another chance yesterday, however he gets into all the right places and with a bit more sharpness, think he will start scoring a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 The thing that does my head in most about the arguments against Martin is that they are all hypothetical. I keep reading about his fitness being an issue - never ran anyway? Chris Martin's game is all in his head and feet. He won't lose that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Vydra will come good, he is getting in all the right places and making the correct runs. Have faith in the lad he will come good and start banging them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Vydra's here, Martin isn't. Why the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Still both contracted to Derby County. Next question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Vydra. He is good in the air, he will improve holding up the ball, he will get more goals and he will run riot with counter attacks. Vydra is going to bring the best out of Ince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 6 hours ago, Sparkle said: Both for me Vydra makes the runs and Martin would be able to find him I really do think they would be good together whatever the formation used Yes I think they could complement each other, but we may never know if that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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