Martin or Vydra

[cannable]

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said:

Yes I think they could complement each other, but we may never know if that's  true. 

I think they could effectively act as Bryson and Martin once did - except you're surrendering a little midfield control but preventing the opposition from pressing high. 

[EssendonRam]

8 hours ago, DC-1975 said:

I don't get the negativity surrounding Vydra, I thought he had a good game yesterday.

Once our midfield learn to read his runs, we'll benefit from him a lot more.

The two are completely different so not really comparable. 

I'd say that Vydras by far our best striker at present though, so we may as well get behind him.

Agree

[dcfcfan1]

Think martin and vydra would love to play alongside each other in a 4-3-3

[lushrams]

Vydra all day as CM plays for Fulham. Daft thread. 

[Steve How Hard?]

57 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

Vydra's here, Martin isn't. Why the question?

 

7 minutes ago, lushrams said:

Vydra all day as CM plays for Fulham. Daft thread. 

CM still a Derby County player so not as daft as u think. 

[brady1993]

Vydra not coming short and working with the midfield really hampered our attack yesterday. Particularly as Leeds were sat deep, leaving little space in behind, he needed to drop into pockets of space to pull defenders out of position. To make this high tempo, slick passing game really effective the centre forward really needs to get himself involved in the play more than Vydra currently is doing.

With that said, I do think he has the ability to grow into the role. He has good technique, is comfortable in possession and works damn hard. There are plenty of videos of when he was at Watford of him picking the ball up in midfield driving at the backline, playing a 1-2 of Deeny and scoring. That's what we need to see on a more regular basis from him. With McClaren coaching him I think there is a decent chance he will become what we need.

One final point is, we really don't have much of choice but to stick with him. Bent and Wilson are far far worse for not coming short when needed and neither work as hard as Vydra. So until January at least we have to stick with Vydra and hope through coaching we can adapt him to what is needed.

[Ninos]

7 hours ago, Phoenix said:

Vydra's here, Martin isn't. Why the question?

Here's why: Because some people are daring and would like to see new exotic countries and perhaps ride a prize racehorse in the French countryside whereas others are creatures of habit and keep returning to skeggy once a year to ride the same old beach donkey. 

[WoollyJumper]

16 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

BOOOOOOOOTH

Who's Booth?

[archied]

5 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Vydra not coming short and working with the midfield really hampered our attack yesterday. Particularly as Leeds were sat deep, leaving little space in behind, he needed to drop into pockets of space to pull defenders out of position. To make this high tempo, slick passing game really effective the centre forward really needs to get himself involved in the play more than Vydra currently is doing.

With that said, I do think he has the ability to grow into the role. He has good technique, is comfortable in possession and works damn hard. There are plenty of videos of when he was at Watford of him picking the ball up in midfield driving at the backline, playing a 1-2 of Deeny and scoring. That's what we need to see on a more regular basis from him. With McClaren coaching him I think there is a decent chance he will become what we need.

One final point is, we really don't have much of choice but to stick with him. Bent and Wilson are far far worse for not coming short when needed and neither work as hard as Vydra. So until January at least we have to stick with Vydra and hope through coaching we can adapt him to what is needed.

Think your first line brings a point up that people miss ,, you say as Leeds were sitting deep ,,,? I would say Leeds sat deep because the side we put out had pace and pushing up on us would have been very dangerous for them ,,, now if we had Martin in the side instead of vydra they may well have pushed up a bit on us ,, sides will always try to counter whatever team we put out in the best way they can it's then up to the players we put out there to pull them around and get the better of them ,, for me it's not a question of who's better ,Martin or vydra it's about the whole 10 outfield players being inteligent enough to use what we have on the field to beat the opposition

[toddy]

Everything evolves including Derby County, for me Vydra over Martin.

Vydra brings pace, energy up front but we have to be able to use this to our advantage against defences. Looking at Vydra's offside goal on Saturday, the ball through from Ince needed to be released a bit quicker, which really sums us up for the last 12 mths.

Under Mac first time around, we used to play much quicker, sort of one touch football, but we need energy and also the ball to be released so much quicker than it has been under Clement, Wassall and Pearson.

Vydra does remind me of Dean Sturridge, exciting to watch if we get the service right.

[RoyMac5]

43 minutes ago, toddy said:

Everything evolves including Derby County, for me Vydra over Martin.

And if Vydra (or a.n.other striker) gets injured, plays badly etc - you want to really on Bent or Wilson or Blackman or Weimann or Ince or Russell to be a goalscorer?

PS Martin first for me, for the goals AND assists and defending at corners/freekicks. But we need them both.

[Ninos]

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

And if Vydra (or a.n.other striker) gets injured, plays badly etc - you want to really on Bent or Wilson or Blackman or Weimann or Ince or Russell to be a goalscorer?

Yes. Yes. Yes.Yes. A bag of mccoys flame grilled steak crisps up front would be an improvement.

PS Martin first for me, for the goals AND assists and defending at corners/freekicks. But we need them both.

No we don't. That's like saying Liverpool needed Benteke. No they didn't. You need to think outside the cat box.

 

[Mostyn6]

@Ninos Whilst I respect, as I have no alternative, cos I don't understand, your stance on not having faith in Chris Martin to take us forward. What do you think we'd have done without him in the last few years? Bearing in mind that there aren't many who can do the multi-faceted job he does out there.

I feel you go over the top for the attention when it comes to Martin, totally ignoring what he's given to the club.

[barnsley ram]

13 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Knew this thread would be like this before I opened it, mostly reasoned arguements but some Chris Martin lovers who wouldn't except Lionel messi if he came to play upfront because he's " not a big hold up man". If vydra ain't worth 8 million in today's market then I'm blown. This is the same bloke that absolutely tore the championship to shreds twice in 3 years certainly not Darren bent mark 2.

People need to realise Martin is past his best at this level, there comes a point when his fitness levels catch up with him, especially at the pace of the championship with the number of games, and sadly his time is up- his goalscoring record in 2016 proves this. He was a great great player in a team built to him but it's time to move on.

Imo saying vydra can't play This system is absurd, yes he's better with a hold up man and I was apoplectic when we didn't sign a Martin replacement to go with him, but he's definately got the all round game to play the lone striker role with a little bit of work on how we play the ball to him- but it shouldn't be anything too different. Right now there's no arguement imo, Vydra is hugely better than Martin, especially now- there may have been an arguement a year or two ago but martins time is over, vydras best is still to come

why does everyone have to put bent down when we mention other strikers none of them you have mentioned will get anywhere near his goal scoring record also played for england now past his best of course but lets show a little respect

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

@Ninos Whilst I respect, as I have no alternative, cos I don't understand, your stance on not having faith in Chris Martin to take us forward. What do you think we'd have done without him in the last few years? Bearing in mind that there aren't many who can do the multi-faceted job he does out there.

I feel you go over the top for the attention when it comes to Martin, totally ignoring what he's given to the club.

I know it is not goalscoreing but Martin is very good defensively at set pieces and we do look wide open especially if our centre halfs lose their man like Keogh did before half time when his man should have scored instead of hitting the bar, Vydra and Martin for me

[Phoenix]

4 hours ago, WoollyJumper said:

Who's Booth?

Summat to do with the Salvation Army I think.

[toddy]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

And if Vydra (or a.n.other striker) gets injured, plays badly etc - you want to really on Bent or Wilson or Blackman or Weimann or Ince or Russell to be a goalscorer?

PS Martin first for me, for the goals AND assists and defending at corners/freekicks. But we need them both.

You don't know whether Wilson or Weimann will be able to perform as a striker, all depends if Mac's coaching as a positive effect on either or both.

The question asked Vydra or Martin not both or an alternative, but if we are going down that route then I would bring in another pacey striker in January, one that could play in place of Vydra [if he gets injured like you suggested] but more importantly could play along side of him. Who I don't know, but in Mac I do trust.

Fans keep saying 4-3-3, so if this is the way to go,  I would to see a real front 3  - 3 pacey strikers up front Vydra/Ince/ plus another. Keep Weimann /Wilson as a temporary replacement for injuries.

Bring back Martin for his goals, what goals? what assists?

We are in 2016 not 2013/14

[Ninos]

8 minutes ago, barnsley ram said:

why does everyone have to put bent down when we mention other strikers none of them you have mentioned will get anywhere near his goal scoring record also played for england now past his best of course but lets show a little respect

True. Someone crunch the numbers and I'm guessing he has the best scoring rate per minute played or he's close. I don't think he gives his very best though which frustrates me about him martin Ince . At least Vydra works.

[toddy]

12 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I know it is not goalscoreing but Martin is very good defensively at set pieces and we do look wide open especially if our centre halfs lose their man like Keogh did before half time when his man should have scored instead of hitting the bar, Vydra and Martin for me

Not too sure we need to bring back a striker who is struggling to score, so he can defend set pieces. I would argue we would be better off getting those who's job it is to defend set pieces to get it right and bring a striker who's main job is to score goals.

 

[Stive Pesley]

I'd like them both please. I'm 100% sure that the McClaren situation/back to the Derby Way/4-3-3/Martin being incredibly unpopular at FFC situation makes his January return a serious consideration

Depends on whether Mel wants to gamble (I'm assuming we have already accounted for the money we'd get from Fulham), what the circumstances of his departure were (did he want to go, or was he pushed?) - lots of things

But having striking options and two natural finishers (3 including Bent) on the books is always going to be better than having one less right? Bit of competition for the places as well

Incidentally - Martin wouldn't have been offside for that second goal