Boycie Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 15 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Surely you're not comparing Chelsea to Sheffield United Daveo? Tell me when was the last time Sheffield United were successful? Even Rynny (who I like) quoted that they had the best budget in league one, an easy line to throw out but they actually had the fourth biggest budget in league one (the transfer fees he generated himself) Damn you Daveo, you won the bet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 2 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said: He won several promotions with Burton, which is why they have gone for him. He didn't take Derby up but he did advance us up the League , just very very slowly... Too slow for Sam Rush and some of the fans. as I say , I think it will be interesting now cos he should have the chance to prove himself which he never had the time at sheff u and came into a horrible mess when he joined us. I wish him well. Sure we are playing better football now than when nige was in charge. There's many reasons for that, not least the £20 million plus we've paid in transfer fees for new players since he left. Burton have not often made bad choices with their managers, Rowett, JFH Have done well as did Clough. Actually, at times, the football we played under Nigel was superb. It's just then he seemed to panic and suddenly go all negative. That was the big frustration; he kept getting into promising situations and then bottling it. I've often thought that if Nigel could visit a hypnotist and rid himself of his negativity he'd be a really top drawer manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 2 minutes ago, Daveo said: Comparing them loosely. You expect Chelsea to be in the top 5, you would expect Sheffield United to be in the top 5 in League 1. The squads both clubs have/had were more than capable of achieving those positions. I'm not saying Clough did a bad job at Sheff Utd but he didn't go in there and transform them from relegation candidates to promotion candidates like it's being made out. As I said earlier they finished in the play offs for the last 2 seasons previous. He inherited a squad that were playing badly that's all. Ultimately the the target was promotion which he failed. Adkins will go the same if they fail to go up this season. That's a very loose connection at best, Chelsea have been Champions of England the season before, Sheffield United were in the fourth season in League One and had never done better than play offs. Target first season couldn't possibly have been promotion surely? if it was then it just shows how deluded football fans are. They'd won one game in 11 I think and were in the bottom 4. Target second season was promotion (either automatic or through the play offs) , I'm fine to concede that, but not to the extent that some are saying in terms of budget and the like. There were 3 teams with higher budgets than Sheffield United so based on budget he should have finished fourth, he finished fifth Fine margins, they were a few minutes away from Wembley in the play offs. Both the home and away legs, people tend to forget they conceded a last minute goal in the home leg, if they draw that they're through. Then they're a Louis Reed finish away from dumping Spurs out in the Capital One cup semi final. he was clean through and blazed over, 12 inches lower and they knock Spurs out. This is going to be a fairly big test, Burton have got a ten point cushion on 6th place and the league one play offs, you'd expect him to be able to hold out for that, automatics might be a bridge too far, but the play offs are a reasonable target, if he misses out on those, then I'd say this season would be a failure for him. Interesting appointment that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I would have said play offs in his first season @ronnieronalde as it was only 3 months in, plenty of time left to sort things out. Second season promotion through play offs or automatics. Burton's would have been stay up going into the season, despite the current league position I think it would be unfair to change that target. I wouldn't say missing out on the play offs would be a failure as such but questions would be asked. He's got a tough job on his hands that's for sure, be a few in the dressing room sad to see Jimmy gone, needs to get in there and get them going, try not to make any drastic changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zag zig Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 5 hours ago, Paul71 said: Good Luck to him, Burton appear to be a very well run club that work within their means and think Nigel is a good fit. Dont care what people thought of his time at derby, his job to stablise and develop us worked. He had laid the foundations for what we are seeing today. I for one, whilst think he may have took us as far as possible, do feel grateful to him for the job he did on limited funds - and i really hope we see burton in the championship next season. I'm in the good luck camp too, kind of have a soft spot for the Brewers and went to see them for the 1st time in ages against the Blades earlier this year, chiefly because of all the ex Rams playing. To say they are well run is a matter of opinion on the evidence that night, their football was well organised and I think they have progressed by virtue of 2 talented young coaches with an appetite and passion to inspire their teams to perform consistently well. They have one of the best defences in the league, but never really looked like scoring that night. Mind Conor Sammons air shot form 5 yards out, in on goal, did bring back memories and a laugh According to mates they sometimes lack the killer touch of a decent striker for that level; suspect that is much down to the finances needed for one. So on this basis I'm not sure what Nigel will honestly add to them. Ben Robinson has been a pretty shrewd judge so far and over exceeded many expectations for a club of their size and support according to my chums. Back on the well run tag, being open to debate, that night we didn't have tickets, but none were required. Got to the ground at 7.20 and there was a queue of Hundred or so fans outside and it took us until 10 minutes after the game had started to get to the front! Ben was wandering around with tickets in his hand, the cashiers were asking daft questions like what's your surname, first name, err just give us the bloody ticket duck. Personally on a gate of just over 5,000 and 1,800 were from Sheffield, to me it just summed it up their "success" had caught them by surprise. Their football was ok, I expected an hoof fest, yet saw as entertaining 0-0 as a neutral I'm ever likely to watch. Do I feel they will fall away a bit if Nigel goes there? Yes, as much because of the set up and I can't see him adding much more to their style of play. I'd be happy to be proved wrong though and wish him well. One thing for certain even more Derby fans will look out for their results whatever their view of Clough. (b.t.w Jill Gallone not included in that, once a Ram, always a Ram in my book, she was just plastic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 22 minutes ago, Boycie said: Damn you Daveo, you won the bet again. What do you want me to do Boycie? I comment on Derby and you ban me. I comment on Clough cos it's what I know. In case you've missed it, you banning me for no reason has stopped me from posting on any other topic, so cheers for that. When the site admin is a wum, it's pretty tough around here and you and Daveo are not the only one winning your bets by the way. I win mine every there's a Clough thread and the same suspects pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 43 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Surely you're not comparing Chelsea to Sheffield United Daveo? Tell me when was the last time Sheffield United were successful? Even Rynny (who I like) quoted that they had the best budget in league one, an easy line to throw out but they actually had the fourth biggest budget in league one (the transfer fees he generated himself) You are one of a few who do ronnie Ok so they may not have spent THE most but it was certainly available to him to do so. Don't forget he had signed players from both the prem and championship on permanent deals, not many teams in league 1 can say that. Top 2 was the target, play offs the consolation prize but ultimately the goal was promotion, he failed to deliver. I wanted Clough to be successful here, I really did, but at the end of it he reached his limit here when he finished 10th, and the thing that held him back was himself. We had a very good chance of reaching the play offs that season if he gambled for it. We were in a no lose situation where we could afford to lose a close game going for a win, games like Barnsley away, why substitute a striker for a defender with 5 mins to go after you have equalised? Why settle for a point? Hull away we were on top looking the most likely to win after we equalised but again played it safe (and we actually lost because of it) like Cornwall said his negativity held him back here, especially away. It was always a must not lose, I don't know whether that was because he is from around here and knew a lot of Derby fans and cared too much or what but that is how I felt in his last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Stop picking on Ronnie you lot even if it is entertaining. He has the connection with the Cloughs and will naturally defend them as would I and many others here, be it that thet were in Ronnie's shoes. After all everybody should defend their family and friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robglosta Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'd suggest Clough is a significant step down from James FH and Rowett. Time will tell, but I don't expect them to finish in the top two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Pete, there will always be opinions far removed from reality. Part of life's rich tapestry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 2 hours ago, maydrakin said: I did wonder if Barker might be brushing the dust off his shin pads! Coach would be a good shout - he'd be a better punt than bringing in the clueless mob Clough had under him at Derby. I wonder if Saul Deeney will be looking for a role?! Saul is currently as Basford United, who also have Eugen Bopp in their ranks. A nice trivia tit-bit there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 32 minutes ago, Cisse said: Stop picking on Ronnie you lot even if it is entertaining. He has the connection with the Cloughs and will naturally defend them as would I and many others here, be it that thet were in Ronnie's shoes. After all everybody should defend their family and friends. Who is picking on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 5 minutes ago, rynny said: Who is picking on him? Nobodies mentioned the book Sissy. chill winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 2 hours ago, MuespachRam said: Wow....just wow.... have you any idea at all where we would be without this Clueless person you slag off? some people. Good luck to him, can't wait to see him back in the Championship next season beating Forest again. why do people assume that Nigel and Nigel ONLY could've ran the club on a budget and anyone and everyone else would've somehow managed to some sort of disaster? There's no guarantee that another manager might not have got us promoted as easily as some suggest we might have been relegated. I wish Clough well going forward, mainly because of some sort of connection to him as a person. But I cannot abide his biography being misleading about his time at Derby. He was bang average, nothing better, nothing worse. I think he is one of those managers who will never get relegated or promoted. He could've done a better job at Newcastle than McClaren, but never a better job at Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: why do people assume that Nigel and Nigel ONLY could've ran the club on a budget and anyone and everyone else would've somehow managed to some sort of disaster? There's no guarantee that another manager might not have got us promoted as easily as some suggest we might have been relegated. I wish Clough well going forward, mainly because of some sort of connection to him as a person. But I cannot abide his biography being misleading about his time at Derby. He was bang average, nothing better, nothing worse. I think he is one of those managers who will never get relegated or promoted. He could've done a better job at Newcastle than McClaren, but never a better job at Derby. No-one has said that Nigel and Nigel ONLY coud've ran the club on a budger. Just that he did it and did it very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Clough did well first time around at Burton. Interestingly it was the cup replay at Man Yoo that made them a lot of money, but if I recall they should have won the original tie but for a shocking refereeing decision. Burton were probably happy, but even so... He did passably at Derby but the fans had voted with their feet and all optimism and excitement had leeched from the club. It was a shock when Sam pulled the trigger but hindsight suggests it was without doubt the right move. My Blunts mates hated his time there and his perceived stubbornness. They were devoid of centrebacks (or rather the ones in the squad were out of favour) and I was told the only centre half he was prepared to countenance bringing in was Barker. I was hoping he'd go to the gumps because it would have meant another mid-season managerial sacking and the opportunity for another "legend" to fail as manager. It's rather disappointing that our meek surrender at the Sh*tty Gound prevented that happening. So for the second time he's gone for a Burton. I'm in the never go back camp. When you're top of the league there's only one way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 9 hours ago, robglosta said: I'd suggest Clough is a significant step down from James FH and Rowett. Time will tell, but I don't expect them to finish in the top two. Massive step down. Rowett's got Birmingham challenging top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Why are people always at opposite ends of the spectrum on him? He did a good job of allowing the club to cut the wage budget, brought through a couple of very good academy players and kept us in the division in a difficult time. On the other side, when he did get money is made some shocking signings, played pretty inconsistent football at best and was completely limited. Thanks for allowing the club to steady itself and getting a bit of a foundation to move forward, but we were never going to challenge with you, and you probably stayed a bit longer than we needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 13 hours ago, Mafiabob said: That might prove difficult... Aren't they out this season? Good point. That would make it tricky. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Nobody in the history of the world has ever changed their opinion of Nigel Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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