Ramifications

What I meant was derby go play your football dont let wednesday boss it.

I know Peterboro have won more games than the Rams, but do they deserve to have a chance in the play-offs having lost a massive 17 matches. It would be a travesty if we fail on Sunday afternoon and the Posh nick it. I'm hoping we win at Wednesday, Peterboro result won't matter and Bristol Rovers beat Bolton. I fancy the Rams against Barnsley over 2 legs especially having the home game first.
So come on Derby, beat Wednesday and lets see where it takes us.

He was quite emotional on the lap of appreciation , hopefully we can give him the send off he deserves , victory at Wembley , you are a gentleman , a top player and a true Rams legend , thanks for everything Curtis

Í can’t see Collins scoring

There are two issues imo. First is commitment. Second is whether he or Smith is the better partner for Bird.  I’ve though Smith but now beginning to think it depends who we’re up against. In the play offs I worry we get overrun if we start with CH. 
 
His commitment until recently has been patchy and he goes on his holidays in defence (that has led directly to 5 or 6 goals against).  He’s a master at hiding. He’s been much more committed these last 3 games and to his credit has been an important part of how we are now functioning. Interesting to speculate what has led to the change ... 

Get in to the playoffs first then worry about it. 

I think I'm confused.
We haven't been playing 4-2-3-1, we've been playing 3 at the back?
 

This new formation is suiting himdown to the ground. His winning back of the ball has been exceptional in the last two games. 

Very disappointing if the manager is asking our players to time waste against Bristol Rovers. 

1-1
McGoldrick 

Glad to see that common sense is still prevailing in the actual poll.
In a years time, if we are no further forward, then in my opinion his position should be under threat.

1-1
McGoldrick 

Maybe the best way to motivate your players to perform on a Saturday is not to give an interview on the Friday saying the following: 
 
"It is no hidden fact that I like 3-5-2. I like to have two players in every position. I need two wing-backs. And I'll obviously get Tom Barkhuizen and Nat Mendez-Laing fitter, so they can do it more.
"But they need help. We need centre-backs, we need centre forwards, we need a lot, really. That's the truth."
There are a number of players out on that pitch (and sitting as underused subs) who either already know they aren't part of Warne's 3-5-2 plans or don't want to be. It showed today.
As a fan at every away game this season, I'm hearing a lot more discontent in the stands than I'm reading on here. We do the hard miles every week, pay out a shed-load of money and are bemused by what we're trying to acheive at the moment. There's no pattern, no cohesion and little to give us heart. I think we're entitled to criticise when it's due.
We sang our socks off in that second half as we wanted to get those lads over the line for what would have been a very undeserved victory. They looked disappointed and a bit sheepish when they came over to us at the end. Some of them didn't come over at all. I didn't notice Warne at all but I left about ten minutes after the end.
We're rapidly losing that togetherness that saw us through the toughest of times last year. Makes me feel sad. 

Well at last that match is over. It makes me want to go and break a few windows, or thump an old person in the face so at least the punishment of watching Derby play is somewhat justified. 
So we started by playing the ball on the grass, where Cloughie says it should be played, and we scored., But then what? Bristol upped their tempo after about 20 minutes and it was all over. And what we did was start to hoof the ball long - to the opposition. And then even passing the ball out of defence seemed difficult for us, and often went to the wrong player. On rare occasions we cocked up and played the ball on the floor and actually threatened, but only on very rare occasions.
Actually the ref was pretty ok 1st half, but the EFL must have had their man at Bristol, who popped into the refs changing room at half time because suddenly he was gifting cards out like it was a mass birthday party for Derby players. It actually wasn't a dirty game, with Derby looking the dirtiest because of clumsy challenges, and there was a remarkable lack of malice, which is surprising given who their manager is!
The penalty was give-able because there  player was impeded in the penalty area, but as many have said, is the type of penalty given against us, but never for us. It was certainly softer than the belt in the back given to Jason Knight on Monday! And would have been as soft as the one that could have been given when McGoldrick was pulled down a little earlier, and probably would have been given if he was playing for Bristol. Or any other club who isn't Derby County.
BUT: it wasn't the ref today, because Bristol deserved far more than they got, and we deserved diddly squat because of our dreadful performance, and sitting back once we had gone a goal up. Given that we need to improve our goal difference, sitting back was unforgiveable.
And surely the players themselves have got to have a good sit down and ask themselves what the heck they ere doing this afternoon. Even at League one levels, not being able to pass the ball to your own team-mates for nearly 90 minutes simply isn't good enough.
I shall miss the next home match, against Burton, because I will be at my son's wedding, so at least I will be having good time. I will keep you all in my thoughts, though!

1-1
McGoldrick 

I guess the danger will be for us to end up like Charlton, who by all accounts do look stuck in league 1. However, i acknowledge that their ownership issues are probably the main reason for this stagnation and with DC at the helm we shouldn't face this issue.
My personal opinion is that there's no time like the present but ultimately if we fail this season i see us going up in the next two. If we don't at that point then its time for panic. 

It's a nice sentiment but standing still in football is going backwards in football.
A short stint in League One is fine of course - we've been here before and it isn't below us to take a dip to this level occasionally, but it is a massive rarity over the course of our 139 years of history. Mel Morris' idiocy might have threatened to wipe that out, but he didn't 'succeed'. Our place in the pyramid is higher than League One, and it shouldn't be something we just accept because of the actions of one man put us in danger.
It's all well and good saying we'll be happy watch Derby in whatever league we happen to be in but that theory hasn't really been tested, there have been so few spells in our history where we've actually been down here and it's never been for a sustained period of time. There isn't a single Derby supporter dead or alive who's experienced us truly being stuck at level 3.
Seeing just how poor the level of quality many of our opponents have possessed this season, the multitude of chances they've failed to create let alone take against us because none of their players have the ability to play a decisive pass / cross anywhere within 10 feet of a teammate etc, has actually seen me throw my palms up and let out a sigh of exasperation many times.
That's not a sigh of disappointment, obviously - I mainly feel for their fans having to watch such hopeless football week in week out and I've really not been able to feel any real sense of satisfaction or accomplishment when watching us beat those teams.
It's not the standard of opposition changing and affecting our ability to win that bothers me, it's the thought that the standard of our own players could fall to somewhere near that level  - and regularly lose to teams of that standard - as the norm.

My overall thoughts:
- The team selection immediately had me concerned, very inexperienced back three, and Barkhuizen at wing back scares the life out of me, I don’t know why we continue to do it, I can’t think of one good performance he’s had in the role, Sibley, who I’ll get back to, by no means had a blinder at Forest Green, but didn’t do anything to warrant being dropped for an out of form right footed winger, as much as he’s better centrally at least he provides a balance as a left footer at left wing back.
- Despite my initial concerns the first half performance was really good and I was impressed with how ballsy the set up was (credit to Warne), we attacked and got shots off and just weren’t finishing our opportunities, I thought the back three were good throughout, I always like the look of young Rooney, just hope he’s not out the squad again next game, how’s he meant to find any consistency or form if he drops out the next game every time he starts? Only 1-0 up at half time though you could see the second half from a mile off, and it felt as though the players thought it too, everyone was just waiting for an equaliser after the penalty shouts, speaking of, Jason Knight has to do so much better through on goal like that, if he’s as good as we think he is he needs to bring it down and get a shot off rather than ending up wide of the goal looking for a pen. The goal’s an absolute embarrassment, for someone of his build Mendez-Laing should never get out muscled that easily, then he’s too lazy to try and win the ball back, think Barkhuizen’s attempted block was pretty weak too but that might be harsh.
- Finally, the subs were bizarre, I hate making the point over and over because it comes across like I’m his fanboy or something, but at 1-1 and in need of a goal, what possesses you to bring on Max Bird and Harvey White (who’ve both played primarily DM for us, and have 1 league goal between the pair of them) ahead of Louie Sibley, who recently won us the game at Oxford with a brace, and when you do bring him on you give him 5 minutes at wing back to make a difference, it’s f****** mad, I honestly don’t get it, is there any reasonable explanation for that? Why is Knight a guaranteed starter every week whilst Sibley gets the scrap minutes playing at wing back? And why did we take Collins off while he was actually playing pretty well and then start delivering even more crosses with our only out and out number 9 off the pitch? Surely Dobbin could’ve played off of Mcgoldrick and Collins while we were pushing for the goal. So whilst you can’t blame Warne for missed opportunities, you can certainly question his in-game decision making and substitutions, which also came too late once again, it’s made worse that I feel as though we go over this every game and have the same debate every week. 
We need 4 points from these 2 away games, Burton could end up being our biggest game as for deciding if we can achieve playoffs or not.

I like Warne and hope he's successful.
I think he's been flexible in systems (442 vs 352) and in style (long ball rubbish against FGR and decent on the floor stuff vs MK) so I think he will change some things to get results.
I'm not sure if it's his philosophy or a lack of trust in the team - but we don't seem to do shutting  up shop / parking the bus / being hard to score against....ever. 
The open style of play has sort of contributed to this season being very enjoyable but, bloody hell, with goals scored against us on the counter attack, we've chucked some points away .

Scouting James Collins?

Knight was looking for it

@DavesaRam, here is Rosenior's full match record with result, shots and shots on target.
Oxford W 1-0   13-4
Charlton  L 1-0   13-7
Mansfield W 2-1   13-8
Barnsley W 2-1   7-2
Shrewsbury D 0-0   13-3
Fleetwood D 0-0   27-9
WBA W 1-0   19-6
Peterborough L 2-1   12-3
Grimsby W 3-1   17-5
Plymouth L 2-3   12-3
Lincoln L 2-0   10-5
Wycombe W 2-1   26-12
I can't see any games with no shots on target, and total shots is a lot better generally than we're seeing at the moment. And he didn't have McGoldrick for some of those games  either.
I don't mind people saying they didn't like Rosenior's style of play but please check out your facts before you say "with several matches producing no shots on target at all".
My stats from DCFC website, btw.
 
 

I wasn't too worried when Rosenior was shown the door, although it seemed in some ways a harsh thing to do. However, although our football was easy on the eye, and we were in a good league position, on the whole we did seem rather toothless, with several matches producing no shots on target at all. Also we had been sussed - Rosenior was somewhat of a one-trick pony himself, and all the opposition had to do was press us hard and play a high line, then wait for the mistake and score from it. We saw this match after match, with no answer. Our away form was awful as well.
Come the Warne, and I was immediately taken with the way in which the team wanted to get the ball and move it quickly up the pitch - a massive boost after the incessant snooze-fests of the previous management style. Somehow we simply had more bite under Warne, and maybe it took teams a while to come to terms with us being different to what everybody had thought e were like.
Sadly we have now become predictable under Paul Warne, who has turned out to only have one trick in his stable, despite talking a good talk about adapting to what we have. It sounded great, but despite having a bit of a look, he has pretty much reneged on that apparent bit of promise. We benefitted early on by the much improved fitness of the players, with several matches being won or drawn with late goals, simply because we could keep going longer than the opposition.
Our good run coincided with us playing to our strengths, embracing a longer-ball style of play as well. But coupled with injuries to Max Bird, and to a lesser degree Jason Knight, we have shifted much more to a long ball  style. It isn't hoof-ball, just that when we get the ball, our first thought seems to be play the ball over the top and into the channels, and then whack a cross in. Unfortunately when we do try to play the ball through the middle we seem to have forgotten that the players feet are actually on or near the ground, so we inevitably play the ball "up and over", which gives our midfielders little hope of receiving the ball because they are not the beefcakes needed for that type of aerial football. So we have become disjointed
Most of us on this forum have cottoned on to the fact that our "flat out till you gass out" style has ripped the stamina out of the older players, and maybe is threatening bun out of the younger kids, exacerbated by the small squad size not allowing true rotation to keep the players fresh. But other teams have also "cottoned on" to the high energy nature of our play, typified by the match against Peterborough. It seemed that their tactical change left us standing cold. I am not so sure that it was a tactical "change", but simply a continuation of the pre-planned tactics - Play a holding, absorbing game  first half knowing we would hit them at a hundred miles an hour. Then in the second half, when we had blown ourselves out, bring on the quicker players in midfield and simply run straight through us. Although Warne didn't appear to try and address the change, maybe there was little he could do because all he had got were players who were drained from the exertions of the season's flat-outedness.
And then we have Warne's team selections and substitutions. He spoke early on about keeping the shirt of you play well, but it seemed the only player to actually keep his shirt regularly was Hourihane, for which he didn't even have to play well. He has had a good spell since coming back from injury, but that seems to have waned again. Compare that with Sibley - yes he got a bit of a run at right back, but that was because there was no one else available apart from Roberts, who had done OK there.  In his first start in his best position he ripped the opposition a new one and bagged a couple of goals. HE did keep his shirt, but had to wear it off the pitch - I don't even think he made it onto the bench! AND WE HAVEN'T SCORED A GOAL SINCE THEN! Well we would have done if the EFL had sent a referee to the last match, but that's another story! All he has had since then are a couple of cameos with 20 minutes to go, and with the game already gone. WE do tend to do this to our game changers, don't we?
Or think of White - recently he played the advanced midfielder role and had a great game, and he too was rewarded by being allowed to wear his shirt on the bench! And is Warne's tendency towards like-for like substitutions a sign of lack of squad depth, or only having one pony in the stable?
It may sound crazy, but despite the frustration, I have enjoyed Warne's tenure so far, and really think he needs a load more time, and the chance to bring in his own players. Then the expectation that he will produce the results we need and get us promoted. I am not worried by his record at Rotherham of promotion then relegation, simply because once promoted he didn't have the funds for building a championship side. He should get that at Derby. MY main concern is whether or not he can  operate outside of his preferred "long into the channels" style.
Only time will tell!

I would have given Rosenior all this season myself. Possibly next as well if he had come close to achieving promotion. 
Assuming we don't go up, still hopeful, I'd give Warne next season and if there's no improvement by the end of it, meaning finishing in a higher position than this season, bye bye. We should at least be expecting progress. We don't want to be in League One for five years. 
A poll I would like to see is asking the players, who did you enjoy playing your football under more. Rosenior or Warne? Because I know who I preferred to watch them playing it under. 

I totally agree that we do look tired, the result of having a very small squad. I think the other point is that teams have also “sussed” us out, being able to watch every match we play. They must know we are tired, have very little pace all over the pitch, and have a non-aggressive midfield they can run through with comparative ease. They also know that we do not react well to a team “getting in our faces”. 
 
I love watching the football we play when we are at our best - but to be successful over a long demanding season of 46 matches, you also need some steel. I don’t think we have that at our disposal at the moment, hence why we can’t react at times to other teams changing their tactics against us.
I also think that over time Paul Warne will acquire players with the aggression, pace and energy which are needed over a tough campaign.