Woodley Ram

Quote

For the following campaign their accounts revealed total accumulated losses of £138m, while their most recent pre-tax loss was £93m over a three-year period.

This was taken from the Reading fans website 'hobnob anyone' . They talk about getting a 9 point deduction the same as the alleged one we will be getting for being £4m over. Birmingham received 7 points or being £13m over. Likewise Derby received a suspended 3 points for not paying wages for a couple of weeks yet Wednesday received 6 points suspended for a much greater offence    

I think the EFL need to be consistant in what they are giving out.

just a point here about our administration. It would seem that our losses are less than Readings and our income I would expect to be higher. Where we are dosnt make sense, if it does why are Reading not in the same place as us?

4 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I was thinking in financial terms the other EFL teams wouldn't have to think twice about electing us - as for a very high percentage of them, we're one of their most lucrative away days (and would also bring in a fair few choice "selected for TV matches" their way )

But yeah - ultimately who knows!

Darlington is an interesting one as they failed to agree a CVA and were liquidated in 2012. Not sure what rule this refers to exactly but

"A new club was immediately formed and moved to Blackwell Meadows stadium but the FA ruled that, as a new club, it must have a different playing name from the expelled club. The name chosen was Darlington 1883, and that club was placed in the Northern League Division One, the ninth tier of English football,"

They were already in the Conference though, so they moved to the bottom tier of Non-league

Rangers wiki page also says something interesting about CVA

"Charles Green agreed a deal with the administrators of The Rangers Football Club plc to purchase the company for £8.5 million if a proposed CVA was agreed or to purchase its business and assets for a £5.5million if the proposed CVA were to be rejected."

What this suggests is that if the club is cheaper to buy when in administration with a CVA - it will be even cheaper if the CVA can't be agreed. It's going to get interesting, if the club can be bought for several million pounds less but in L2 rather than L1, there may be potential investors who see that as a better option ?

 

 

 

wasnt that what Mel was saying, that he expects a buyer to come forward as they know they will get it cheaper in administration? I think (hope maybe) that we will get a new owner by January. My concern is any additional points that we are deducted.  If we can keep it to 16 (12 + 4 for being £4m over) we might have a chance. Any more than that and we are stuffed. Remember Reading will be joing us very soon at the bottom and it wouldnt suprise me if a couple more come our way.

10 hours ago, Crewton said:

We don't know how big Readings breach is, but I'm amazed it's not >£10m

I think its something like £70m, I know its a big figure. Im sure that some will be 'written off' by the EFL due to Covid but cannot see how they only get 9 points. On the points scale it should be at least 12. I think ours is a £4m overspend so should be 4 points not 12 -3 suspended.

I would think there are others, Stoke had a massive overspend they are putting down to Covid. I think if everyones books were put down on a table and treated the same way there would be a few on negative points at the moment.    

The EFL needs to be consistent with their judgements. DCFC getting 3 points suspended for paying players two weeks late and the Owls getting 6 points suspended for not paying at all or at least months late dosnt compare.

If the EFL play the P&S rules with a straight bat we will not be on our own at the bottom.

1 hour ago, JoetheRam said:

3 helicopters flew over Uttoxeter in formation earlier heading in the direction of Derby.

Could have been a consortium of Bamford, and them Bamfords from Stoke!

3 helicopters you say, that would be the adminstrators junior staff bring the pens, paper and calculators in 

2-0 blades, no FRGS

Duck the EFL

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

I'm not sure I've got anything that's worth putting in a raffle (the owd gal ain't as fit as she used to be) but I'd put cash in if the fund was properly administered. 

I tried not to use the administered word lol

12 hours ago, Andicis said:

Why will we face further deductions next year? 

it would all be in the same season, maybe not even this if we appeal

Im up for crowd funding but it would need to be run by someone of standing, lawyer, accountant etc. I would put £1,000 in.

Also I have a villa in Cyprus (where I am at the moment) If others could offer something I would put my villa up for 2 weeks holiday in a raffle (that would normaly cost £2k). if we could get others to donate things and have a giant raffle we might be able to get a sizable amount. some of the hotels and golf clubs could chip in?? 

7 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I'm finding it hard to believe that the club's payroll is "still" £30m p.a, given that the most expensive element, the first team squad has 23 players, and half of those are on £4,500 per week or less. 

The Athletic are usually pretty reliable, but that figure doesn't support the club's claim of "a viable business model" emerging. 

If it's true, I'd love to know how it's made up, but it's going to be carnage when an Administrator is appointed. 

its a lot less than that, 23 players on £4,500 is about  £7m, some like Lawrence are on a lot more and then you have Rooney etc. I would say well under £20m, perhaps as low as £15m 

I think at the moment it would be worth appealing any points deductions, it might delay the inevitable but also it might bring the EFL to the table and reduce them.

I think Mel said we were £4m over FFP. Birmingham were £13m over and received 7 points I think (5 deducted), we could use that as part of the appeal for less points.

Also use Covid as a reason for administration as the loss of £20m meant we couldnt service our debt.

Mind you, if we didnt have a couple of years of mad spending we would not be in this position.  I dont dislike Mel, his heart was in the right place and they do say supporters shouldnt own the club. However he cannot take aim at what other clubs have or dont have, this is about DCFC and what he did and didnt do. I think Stephen Pearce is getting away lightly here, as an accountant he should have been the voice of reason. In the end we are were we are due to them.

13 hours ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Usually the PFA will step in and help pay wages I think, also the Administrators, are not the clubs friends they are the equivalent of jackals who live off the corpses of companies that are ill,  "there is a place for them but it has not been dug yet"

agree with all of that and I like the description of the administrators 

1 hour ago, I know nuffin said:

Silly question. If we are in administration isn't it down to the administrators to pay the wages, even if it means using their own money until they can get what was the club's money in. 

It's a question not a statement. Does anybody know

only if they can from the operating income  

At the moment our running costs are minimal, I have no idea how big the debt is. We need to keep going and fufil the league fixtures and make sure wages are paid. if we challenge the 12 points administration deduction (due to unforseen circumstances (Covid)) and challenge any FFP deduction then it is possible we can stay in the league and find a new owner before the January transfer window. Once the January window opens if we are still in administration our youngsters and better players will be sold for nothing.

I know that for a couple of years Mel played Russian roulette and lost but that is not the issue now. The issue is how soon can we get a new owner, how can we reduce any points deduction, how can we cover our current operating costs, how can we keep our better and younger players.

I have a season ticket and will go to the games to support Wayne and the team. I am also willing to put money into a crowd funding project to help with operating costs. With crowd funding it needs to be put together by someone with standing. I have invesstigated financial crime for the last 30+ years and I know how badly this can go wrong. It would be good if a local accounting or legal firm could take this on for us. I am willing to put in an least £1,000 maybe a bit  more 

This is a thought and I have no basis for it. What if the EFL knew that DCFC were going into administration and the 9 points + 3 suspended was for that not FFP.

Covid is very relevant as if we can show we are going into Administration due to Covid then we might not get -12 points as we could never have forseen or planned for it.

That said we have had a number of years of financial mismangement

I think on a short term basis, it costs a fortune to run a club. not everyone can keep putting in money every year. Im in untill we get new owners. we need to see if we need to pay wages and complete the season. 

so how much.....I would put £1,000 and more if needed  

15 hours ago, BobbyTheReadingFan said:

Hey All,

I heard this news earlier. I don't know much about the history of how you got to this stage but I know that it's due to mismanagement and really poor conduct by owners. I also heard Rooney earlier say he heard about the Administration when watching TV. 

I was gutted to hear this latest update. I like Derby - although that's not really the point at the minute...

I think the point that I wanted to make is that every single football fan really needs to take notice here. It could be there club next. It doesn't matter if they're your biggest rivals, you hate the club, etc.. it's more than that. I'm sick of seeing rich owners come in, playing at being a chairman, making poor decisions or taking risks and then putting the whole club in jeopardy. I'm also sick of the rest of the footballing world just ignore it and almost watch on with mild interest to see what happens. We're all football fans first and foremost and clubs like yours and others have been around well over a hundred years and form a huge part of the community. 

It's the fans that really suffer here. Not to mention the staff, those in back office roles, canteen staff, cleaners, car park attendants, maintainance people, etc... 

Anyway, I hope that there is some better news for you soon although I realise things look bleak. I know you're going to try to negotiate on the points deduction, either way hopefully there's some clarity and closure on that so you at least know where you stand and can focus on football. 

Great result today as well (at least that's one positive!) 

thanks for that, out of interest (woodley is woodley Reading), what is happening with Reading FFP issues, I seem to remember Reading being well over spent??

So some intresting facts and a lot still left unsaid.

I cannot see why Derby would be excluded from funds that were given due to Covid, Could the £8.5m held Administration at Bay?

It is true that in the Championship Derby would have been affected more than most due to their fanbase hence bigger losses, £20m is no suprise.

I dont think that we can blame the EFL for challenging us over the valuation (not the sale) of PP  as it was larger than everyone elses. So if we lost a new owner over it then .........  

I think Gibson's role in this and the pressure he was able to bring needs looking at. No one should be able to interfere with the workings of the EFL.

We are likely to have a 12 point deduction but we can show that it was exceptional circumstances so the EFL can be forgiving due to the circumstances that they had a part in.  

You can tell that the EFL feared this would happen, they have asked Mel to committ for the year and sked for a business plan.

Onto other clubs, the likes of Stoke and Reading have enourmous overspends and that cannot be all due to Covid. They must be waiting for a 12+ point deductions. Others must be struggling so I dont think we will be alone on minus points. 

I do feel that the EFL have things to answer here and it would not suprise me if that was in court. We well overspent for a couple of years but they (EFL) have not acted in an honourable and acceptable manner.

I dont think this is over yet  

1 minute ago, Gaspode said:

I thought 48 was our number?

we were relegated from the Prem with 11 points were we not.

I would love us to overcome this and stay up. 

there is a game on today........common you Rams. I shall be watching from Cyprus and I will cheer the Rams on loud and proud

19 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

Does it really matter?  We are going down anyway with the mandatory 12 point deduction? Another 9 or so points won't make any difference.

I think they will only give us an 11 point deduction after all 11 is our number ?

Stunned as I wake up in Cyprus this morning. 

I had a feeling something was up but wouldnt be alone in that, so could this be the 12 points with 3 suspended, if so that would be unfair on the likes of Wigan?

Lets hope we keep Wayne

That we dont get more than a 12 point deduction as there is a chance we could turn 12 points around.

Postive is that administration will clear a lot of the debts and I think the stadium is in Mel's name so shouldnt be part of it

We need new post Administration owners now, it would be good if this was part of the deal to bring them in.  

We need to really support them now.

21 hours ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

Swan dive.

ex swan dive

19 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

That's been a case from almost every outlet that has had anything to say about this process from start to finish a couple of years ago. It also, at least in my mind, is one of the reasons that so many fans of other clubs carry the perception that we are guilty beyond all possible doubt.

Not one news agency has taken a step back, done any reasonable analysis and published something close to the actual situation, at least not from what I have seen.

great post

surprised by the poor reporting by the BBC today (16th September) stating that our amortilisation left a residual amount at the end of contract when it didnt it ended as zero. Bad repporting from someone (BBC) I would have expected better from