Woodley Ram

21 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I wouldn’t argue with you my friend; I’d never win.

For what worth this is my additional take.  It is only since Quantumna took charge that the Club’s accounts have been brought up to date - probably only in draft format, and with amortisation reworked on a straight line method consistent with the other 71 clubs in the league. I think Morris and Pearce were still fiddle arsing around in September getting their administration ducks in line and really were not interested anymore trying to dig themselves out of the huge hole they had created. Morris indicated in his interview something like ‘mumble, £4m, mumble mumble’ as our overspend if we accepted straight line amortisation, but that figure took no account of future seasons. I can’t believe we didn’t lose a significant figure after the Frank Lampard season, and probably the season after before COVID came along to take its additional toll.

I suspect the EFL has now laid the charges on the table based on those draft figures and Quantumna have considered the best option. I highly doubt another 6 months minimum disciplinary and appeal process is going to be attractive to any potential buyer, or and secured or preferred creditor. If Kirchner, or any other buyer, wants Derby come what may, then they want a quick purchase so they can plan for the next season and a half.

I am no EFL apologist, but the pelters they are getting when this all really falls at Morris’s door still continues to amaze me. He chose to put the club into Administration not to save us point deductions, but to trigger a sale. He wanted to get out, and retain the multi-millions he still has in investments, property, etc.

You are right, this is at Mels and Pearces door not the EFL. We need to wait until the FFP information is out there as nobody knows the figures. The only thing I would like to see from the EFL is consistency of punishment and I have a feeling Reading and others will get away more favourably. The example of this was SWFC and the overdue wages. 
 

people want the club to be made an example of and all I ask is that any punishment is appropriate and consistent 

1 hour ago, NottsRammy said:

Unless its makes you go bust if it doesnt happen ? . 

Agree, depends how deep the owners pockets areIf you spend money you don’t have and you go bust, you are a right Mel Morris.

lets put this into context.-12 really hard not to be relegated

additional -3 defiantly relegated

additional -9 makes no difference

additional -50 makes no difference

One note here, if you over spend, do it big and I mean by 10's of millions if not more because all you will get is -9 points. I think there is even more incentive to really overspend now. if buying a £60m strike force and a £20m midfielder will probably get you to the prem go for it. it will only cost 9 points if it dosnt happen

1 hour ago, alexxxxx said:

Exactly my thoughts reggie. Efl wont have to prove a thing or show their working. Just bully you until 'justice has been done.' 

Also the 3pts suspended is just pointless. 

That we s the whole point of them being suspended ? lol

15 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

How have we gone to appealing the 12, to adjourning the 12 to only getting a further 3 and not 9.

To 21. 

Would love an explanation.

No point in accepting 3 points suspended, might as well take the lot now, also get any other skeletons out. Prepare for next year and forget about this one. 
 

I think we need to build something similar for L1 and the Championship. Some big aggressive lads down the spine of our team, laced with some speed merchants and a touch of know how. 

6 minutes ago, angieram said:

But you're the ones who are reading all that stuff and talking about him on here. That's what he wants.

Do us all a favour, just ignore him.

 

good point.....me included 

30 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I know, Norwich isn't 4 hours ahead of the east Midlands. Some would say significantly behind the east Midlands.....

 

I don't think Mr Pop is ahead of anything or anyone. He is stuck in a parallel universe   

15 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I've a fair idea he lives abroad, possibly somewhere East, maybe 4+ hours ahead of us - a few clues, particularly the fact that his posts are often after midnight our time. I'm thinking maybe somewhere sad ageing blokes go to exploit young women. I think, therefore, it's unlikely that he gets down the 'Gate' much these days. 

bit naughty @Crewton you need to take the exploit young women comment back. That's not an appropriate label to give anyone

15 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Nope. What has crippled the Club over the last few years is the competence of the Club’s executive. 

I agree, poor administration by Mel and Pearce. they thought they had found a secret formula for FFP, that's why were some what opaque with their explanation to the EFL. They didn't lie about it but could have been clearer and the EFL should have the expertise to have understood what they were doing.  

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

The great thing about the Nixon tweet and the Athletic article is that they've got the saddoes at OTIB absolutely soiling themselves. Indignation is running at an all-time high and Mr Ploppy has burst his inflatable friend in rage.

More news stories like that please everyone.

Unfortunately they have beaten themselves into a rage. They have no more information than we do but they keep coming up with reasons why we should be made an example of. 

With points deductions, yes I can see why administration gets you -12 and then you get further points for being over the FFP limits (although I don't see why pop thinks we should get more than Reading despite them being overspent by 10 times more( it alleged that we are only £4m over)).

Not sure if I understand the call for points deductions for not paying HMRC, being late for paying transfer fees and being late putting in accounts. Isn't the HMRC payment and transfer fee (singular) part of the admin deduction, anyway show me where anyone else has received a points deduction for that?   

Re putting in the accounts late, I'm not sure how we could have done that without agreeing the re-amortised accounts first (the originals were submitted). The last two years were unlikely to be above FFP limits as the major costs had been eradicated. Anyway what other club has had points deductions for not producing their accounts....none, they get a transfer embargo until they do...Coventry et al. 

So in conclusion

Yes to the admin deduction (unless their is a legal reason to overturn (FM)) and appropriate FFP deductions based on the Birmingham scale and no to deductions for the others.

It all really needs to be based on facts and we don't have many to go on

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Under those circumstances, play our strongest team against Boro, and bring myself and the Memsahib in as centre backs* against any 'rivals' of theirs.

 

* We're not much older than Phil Jagielka and Curtis Davies anyway.

in your 60's then ?

If true the Athletic tweet seems like a compromise and one I would accept. I don’t think we would over turn -15 points but at least we might ( due to the poor quality in the championship this year) have a glimmer of hope. 
 

we don’t have all of the information as to why we appealed the -12 points or our FFP score ( Mel said £4m). People might think they do but they don’t, information is limited.

Administration is a serious thing and it is right that clubs are penalised. It s also the right of a club to appeal based on the rules.

other clubs feel that on FFP we should receive a bigger penalty than Reading.  Their spending was Ona different scale to ours, their wage bill massive, their debt huge and their FFP overspent over 10 times ours ( and they have also sold their stadium).

-15 is a big penalty, in fact it might as well be -50 as to overturn it we would need to produce play off type performances and we don’t have the team or squad to do that. -15 also gives us an issue in January, do we try and bringin players to fight to stay in the championship or prepare for League 1.

Two easy games coming up, nailed on 6 points.....?

BBQ burgers v tempura satay flavoured mars bars....tough decision 

1 hour ago, alram said:

In what way were we cutting costs? Post lampard we signed rooney on huge wages, and almost over 10 million for bieliek and jozwiak. and please don't come to me saying it was in installments, you still have to pay it.

I JUST CANNOT BELIEVE people have actually brought the COVID BS. it is unbelievable to me people are that naive, and it's naive to think the authorities will be that way inclined too. we are the ONLY club that has gone into admin "because of covid", just happens that we were pissing away money the years before that - but that has nothing to do with it! It is like when we were the only club in the country to not sell season tickets "because of covid", you ever think there is more to it? it is widely laughed at across the football world that we are blaming it on covid.

for the love of god people, wake up! I am sick to death of all this off field nonsense and defending people that have no right to be defended. the club has been run into the ground, stop making excuses for them.

Millwall 2-1 Derby frgs CKR

A bit worried by the last two games, we rightly lost both but it was the manner that worries me.  We look lost in midfield, we really missed shinniesta last night. We are now starting to make mistakes at the back. 
 

we have got where we are on a wav of emotion and confidence and we need to continue to produce a siege mentality back to the wall performance every week. 
 

we need to stay in this until we can get some cavalry in come January as long as the FFP/ takeover is done and dusted

21 minutes ago, StarterForTen said:

If you chose to walk a tightrope over a canyon for a living and then, one day out of the blue, an unforecasted gust of wind causes you to fall, is it the freak and unforeseen weather that caused your death or the fact you were on a tightrope at the time it blew?

This is the crux of the appeal, in my opinion.

The effects of a viral pandemic is force majeur regardless of the position of the business before it hit.

Nice metaphor, but I think they will try and argue that the business was unsustainable prior to Covid-19 and if it wasn’t like other clubs it would have been ok.

personally I don’t think you can expect owners to put an extra £20m in the pot and if they don’t then say it’s their fault. 
as long as we can show but for Covid-19 we would have continued we should win the appeal 

but it’s never as simple as that in the EFL 
 

2 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

the reason Derby County Football Club went into administration is so so simple..... Mel Morris stopped putting in the money to keep them out of administration.....that is it, nothing else....If he was still pumping money into the club we would not be in administration.

That is correct. However he was normally expected to put in £8.5m per season and all of a sudden needed to put in £20m something he wasn't or could do. 

48 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

You genuinely think that your 450 season ticket a YEAR is paying anything towards the wages of the squad…?

out third choice goalie will be on 4 or 5 k a week…

 

 

It’s not just about the loss of season tickets, but tickets, hospitality, shirt sales and all of the ancillary things that go with match days. It could also to be as much about cash flow as the money. Season tickets bring in circa £8m up front and overall ticket sales around £16-18m. With the rest such as catering etc you can see how a £20m is plausible 

12 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

I would prefer that we pay the tax bill….because isn’t that what you are supposed to do, you know to keep things like the NHS running who are saving the lives of people we love…?

I would prefer that we paid all of our bills in full as that's the right thing to do. 

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

4 points for overspending in the 3 years to 2018 based on a standard amortisation policy.

EFL claim is for an additional 8 points for failing other years, minus 3 for accepting the deal on the table.

DCFC (or Mel) claim is that we shouldn't be punished for further periods due to the circumstances (ordinarily we'd have been punished for 2018 and then have time to address things for the 2019 period and beyond).

First time I have had this explained, thank you. So do you know the breakdown of the subsequent year over spend? Are we (Mel) saying that DCFC budgeted to be within FFP based on the original submitted accounts and could have altered them if we had chance. That seems a reasonable defence as long as we were within FFP with the old accounts    

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

No guesswork needed. They stated what penalties are in the SWFC case

So Reading, who think they will get 6 points should get 12 as they are over the £15m mark!

59 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Even if it is that. I think we'd stay up. Get to January in and around it, get some players in and we'll be fine.

I don't know the ins and outs. But is the points deduction for breaking FFP set at 9 points?

I was under the impression that it was determined by how much you have exceeded the limits by.

So for example a club that has gone over FFP by £5 million would not face the same points deduction as a club that exceeded it by £20 million.

Also on Mel's interview with Radio Derby they asked him that if they resubmitted the accounts would it mean that we would have fallen foul of FFP. To which Mel answered yes. Then I'm sure he said it would have equated to a 4 point deduction considering how much they exceeded FFP by.

Or have I completely dreamt this?

That’s what Mel said