Woodley Ram

10 hours ago, Crewton said:

"Fans have been back in grounds for nearly a year now" 

You used this "fact", and the club's subscription service, to suggest that the club's loss of revenue was short-lived when, in reality, its income has been significantly diminished since the first lockdown and hasn't recovered to its pre-pandemic level even now. 

We'll see in due course how other clubs have been affected, but I'll be amazed if most of the non-parachute payment clubs aren't carrying far more debt than they were 18 months ago, be that "soft" debt or the more problematic kind. 

2 months not nearly a year, we came back at the start of the new season in August

14 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I think Hmrc didn’t collect taxes in recognition of the COVID situation . And the reason for that was yes in part because the Government recognised the financial strain their policies were causing . 
 

how it comes about when a Company or an individual gets into financial difficulty is they pay bills they have to to avoid further financial disaster. Player wages we know are a good example .. miss those on a regular basis and you lose players , get thrown out of the league or whatever no one would buy the club and Hmrc would get paid nothing. 

to be honest , I am more concerned about shinner Nicholson losing his job than I am Hmrc getting 25 p in the pound or whatever.
 

 

they collected my VAT. The only thing that Derby could have done is apply for loans but they probably (like the £8.5m from the EFL) didnt qualify.

We owe VAT so we should pay it. Derby are no different than a lot of businesses that had to close over lockdown.

We need to do deals re the debts to reduce them and talk to the EFL about a possible reduction in the admin deduction based on Covid (or tell them we will appeal) and make the FFP one as small as possible.

Judging by what the Administrators are saying it sounds that (bar the debts) we are in a reasonable state to go forward.

The debts are the problem and an owner who has decided not to continue to financially support the club. Others such as Reading (bigger debts, bigger operating losses, less income etc) have the owner funding.

Im not having a go at Mel, he pumped in a vast portion of his income which in football terms is not great (I know to us it is) and for what ever reason he decided enough was enough.

Derby 1 - Swans 1, FRGS Stretton 

1 hour ago, Charlotte Ram said:

You don't claim VAT back on outputs i.e. sales, only on inputs i.e raw materials etc

good point and I am VAT registered, mine generally nets off, but I could see how theirs dosnt . I put all of mine in premium bonds and earn some winnings before my VAT return

9 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Don't forget there will be VAT on sales including season tickets 

you claim the VAT back

15 hours ago, SoneAluko said:

I’ve been lurking on this forum last hour being a Reading fan curious to see what people were saying then I remembered as you could probably tell by the username I set up an account to post something about a game we played, I think we won 4-2 having been 3-0 up. Was convinced we turned a corner with how good we had been lately at the time and that the playoff hangover was over, ended up surviving on goal difference. ?

Its actually as many as 13. 4 should be back this weekend. You can’t play a Warnock team and not get a few injuries. Southwood, Hoilett and Tetek all picked up injuries but are expected to be back for today. Dann is touch and go, but may be rushed to partner Josh Laurent at centre half.

The rest of the injuries are mainly within the central areas. Moore, Morrison, Holmes and McIntyre our centre halves are all injured at the moment, won’t be playing today. Rinomhota is touch and go, could be on the bench. Azeez and Joao are significant injuries that hurt us, again not back. Otherwise Araruna hasn’t been fit for ages and we all knew for a while Meite won’t be fit this season. 
 

If they were all fit I’d say only Joao and Holmes would warrant a place in the starting 11 at the minute. The summer signings have fit in really well, Drinkwater hasn’t headbutted someone yet and is very positively contributing so all looking very rosy in that regard. We’re all expecting to survive this season despite our points deduction, but expectations aren’t very high.

Also re points deduction, it’s looking like 6 deducted and 3 suspended according to one local journo. I still wouldn’t rule out a full points deduction however. 

Not sure how you get 6 points for being 10 of millions over but we get 9 for being 4m over, no disrespect as I live just outside reading but you shold get 12.

Allsop - 8, Came in didnt put a footwrong and made some decent saves

Byrne- 8, Attacked well, sometimes caught out but one of his best games this season 

Forsyth- 8, Goal and committed defending

Stearman- 7 He is not Jags but he does a steady job

Davies- 8, I feel better whan he is on the pitch, defesive masterclass

Shinnie- 9, I needed to have a lay down after watching him, he never stops, oppontants must hate playing against him 

Bird- 7, Had his good moments and is getting better

Morrison- 7, drifts in and out of games, should score more

Knight -8, another that dosnt give you a minutes rest, played well tonight

Lawrence- 8, was a threat all game, should have bagged one tonight

Baldock- 6, tries, runs, put needs to put it in the back of the net

Stretton -7 , This lad has goals in him, needs be more physical with defenders

2 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

It seems everybody in this forum agrees that the is vile and embarrassing behaviour at Bramall Lane by some Derby fans was unacceptable.

Of course a few won't really, but I highly doubt they will have the guts to say so in here.

A lot of people are growing to dislike us as much as Leeds were disliked in the 70s (and ever since tbf) and other clubs at various times like Millwall, Man U and Hope Valley Under-15s. Although the last one may be more personal tbf.

What Morris has been doing it entirely out of our control, but what those around us do, isn't.

For example, if a particular abusive chants start up, the majority could respond with something counter.

I don't mean Kumbaya, although that may very well work, or Imagine by John Lennon, although that too may work, but something like 'your're knobs and know you are etc'

Not that, clearly, that's lame, but something agreed on.

Plus, if fans en masse started filming the morons on their phones and the word had been put out that they'd be reporting to the club and/or Police it may help.

Obviously, I don't want anybody getting hurt, so be careful. And I'm happy to hold somebody's coat at the back if required.

Back in Cornwall that is.

We have to make these people thoroughly unwelcome because whereas they may not care when they're high or drunk, they will be after and/or before.

What they are doing is often illegal, and in all seriousness, it is up to us to do something about it if it's to change.

I almost want to adopt Millwalls chant of 'Nobody likes us and we don't care' but I'd be lying, I do care and I'd like Derby to be admired and respected rather than despised and mocked.

Use the passion, create a seige mentality and roar the Rams on. 

On 11/08/2021 at 17:11, hintonsboots said:

Glad he’s involved though in whatever role.

I think he will be for the chop, the administrators will not want his salary on the wage book

1-0 Derby Lawrence FRGS

7 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

On the billy sharp stuff not sure who started the song but it was sang often before the game and during so no complaints about him giving us stick afterwards. It wasn't just a few dodgy people singing it but the majority of the crowd. I was just stood there confused tbh as the vast majority of people were joining in and I had no idea why. My mate who is a blade was equally just confused by it all. 

On the game itself it's hard to tell. The first half was even and could have gone either way. Second half dictated by the red card. At first I felt Roos didn't deserve a red but i think on balance it pretty much is and we'd have been begging for it if it was the other way around. There were communication issues at the back for the entire second half that continued but got to consider ourselves unlucky we didn't ge a point. Not saying United didn't have chances they did but we could have gotten something. Good to see the fight is still there if nothing else. 

why do people have to be disrepectful in their chants, banter and having a go at a player is one thing but going beyond that is out of order. 

He is a good player Sharp no need for the nasty stuff. 

Thought we played well yesterday

come on you Rams, will be watching from Cyprus

4 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

No chance an appeal would work. If COVID was the sole reason were in administration it might have done, but COVID isnt the sole reason.

It'd be a waste of money to attempt it in my opinion.

Its worth a try. Covid has had an effect so maybe get a reduction. I suppose the question is would we be in administration if we had played to 26,000 every week? if not then appeal

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

I am disappointed that Mel hasn't committed to tightening the belt. If instead of increasing debts he'd forced a reduction in outgoings, the 1.5m quid a month he's putting in would drop. Surely the end game for all championship clubs has to be running costs below income? 

He could continue to fund the running costs until a buyer is found if there's a clear end to that cost. That's what I was presuming he meant when he said he'd fund us until a buyer was found. Each transfer window would mean a controlled reduction of higher cost players. But no, the costs haven't been addressed. 

If we were looking for a buyer, start by getting the balance sheet in order. Stop chasing the premiership dream. We gambled to the point of lunacy. 

There has been a dramatic reduction in the wage bill over the last couple of years so they have addressed spending. however the horse has bolted with the money already been spent leaving large debts 

11 minutes ago, islandram said:

rubbish Maguire and Gibson have no say efl are dealing with administrators not Morris now. we need to move on from this paper talk innuendo/clickbait rubbish and get our club sorted and as no one on here knows the full details why keep making things up does it help no. only thing that helps club is getting behind Wayne the team the club feel sorry for trusted hard working staff that lose jobs and look to future . don't whinge and whine about new prospective owners. i look at this way Middlesboro is still an awful place with or without Gibson. and we should applaud Wayne for dipping into his own pocket to help out. 

The EFL think we (the administrators) might appeal and I think we should. Covid is a factor and if we can show that the £8.5m would have kept us out of administration we will make a decent case for a reduction. They (EFL) said that Wigan appealed but were unsuccesful. I think with Covid our is a little different and a stronger case. Maybe they can deducte 6 points and give 6 for any other issues and leave us be.

2 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Ironically the biggest point in our favour is that EFL rules prevented us from accessing the additional £8M+ funding that was provided to every other Championship club - thereby making the impact of Covid far greater on us than anyone else. A pretty strong argument and one the EFL would find difficult to provide a valid arguement against....

im not sure they will be bothered, we didnt meet the criteria for the £8m end of for them. The Covid effect is intresting. They will need to bring out some rationale for this otherwise everyone will be deducted points. I havnt seen anything other than Stoke trying to pull a fast one  

20 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

One thing puzzles me .Do we want owners that just steady the ship ? . If i remember right unders gse didnt we use to moan alot about lack of funding and buying players , everything just became stale ? . Or do you want owners with pots of money who will prob gamble and again put us in the same pickle . The problem is as time goes by fickle fans forget and posts start appearing of nigel clough type football its boring , i would sooner us have a real go and go bust bar watch this drivel . 

It seems where caught on a double edged sword , hoping the fans now understand what we are in for .

it depends if you want boom and bust, the boom of Mel's spending was exciting but its not nice when it ends 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tubthumping+lyrics&&view=detail&mid=819E9FD496FF364E5E79819E9FD496FF364E5E79&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dtubthumping%2Blyrics%26FORM%3DHDRSC3still tubthumping for me

"We'll be singin'

When we're winnin'

We'll be singin'

I get knocked down, but I get up again

You're never gonna keep me down

I get knocked down, but I get up again

You're never gonna keep me down"

'I' changed to 'we or us' of course  

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Can't compare Derby's loss of £20 million in revenue with the other 72 clubs, most of them lost nothing like that. Most of the bigger teams in the Championship had parachute money, or got Covid support money. We may be first into admin but we will not be the last.  

Thats what I think as well, the only difference might be (because our losses are minor compared with some others) is that we owe money to commercial enterprises and they owe it to their owner so pay little back.

We did get hit hard without the support money and the fact we had a bigger fanbase, and I can see Mel's point about parachute payments and smaller clubs lossing less. However the issue we have is servicing the debt and that is down to Mel and DCFC. Less debt more operating income left.

The decision making is also flawed, Keogh was always going to win a court case and I think treated badly and they should have known quickly if Rush should be sacked or not. This also cost money.

I think Mel is a true fan but very head strong and at DCFC made a number of rash decisions

6 hours ago, Red_ram said:

I just noticed this little mention and was gonna post too. Didn’t listen to everything today so didn’t know if I’d missed something, searched the forum and came up with nowt too.

So Sam Rush was oft painted as the villain of the piece. With Mel’s mask well and truly slipping and the fact they settled with Sam out of court, does that mean he wasn’t actually the problem?

After the events of 3 amigos, ‘the Americans’ were treated with a lot of scepticism throughout but did a good job all in all and Appleby always came across well. Wouldn’t mind him back involved at all.

Yes they stabilised the club, the EFL would like them, they are a steady hand, I also liked Glick when he was here, he even knew how to say 'Darby' and not 'Deerby' when he left. I have fond memories of these guys.

As an anti corruption specialist I would love to have a look under the EFL bonnet and see what they are up to.

1 hour ago, StarterForTen said:

From what I've read, what Stoke have done is a massive amortisation dump - throwing a huge (£80m?) player value write down into one year and claiming it as a COVID-related (and therefore outside of P&S limits) revaluation. That will then allow them to record reduced amortisation losses in later years - and higher profits if players are sold - leaving them with more head room for the sir seasonal P&S returns.

Is that really OK?

 

No, maybe we should ask Gibson to have a word with the EFL

1 hour ago, TooFarInToTurnRed said:

The EFL will have to tread really carefully how they treat us in these difficult times as I suspect that when clubs start publishing accounts for 20/21 over the coming months many may have breached the P&S loss limit due to COVID. If they then “relax” the rules to stop half the teams having embargoes and point deducted due to “unprecedented circumstances” but not for us then they are opening themselves up to a huge claim.

 

I think that’s going to happen, Stoke have already started the ball rolling on that with a massive loss due to COVID.   I think the factor will be if those clubs have to bring in the men in suits, if they don’t they might get away with it 

9 hours ago, Brammie Steve said:

Now that Derby have had to accept a 12 points deduction should there not be a vehicle whereby they can ask for any other “offences” to be taken into consideration?

Even serial criminals use this under English law so that sentences can run concurrently rather than endlessly consecutive as the EFL are doing in their relentless attempt to annihilate any trace of DCFC.

Im a bit unclear as to what offences we still have going on, the papers seem to think there are loads but the only one confirmed was the FFP/P&S where Mel said we were £4m over which is 4 points. Yet the papers go onabout 9 and 3 suspended.

10 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Nope, I'm not going along with that. It lets Morris off - well what else could he do?! The EFL is made up of the clubs in the leagues, don't like it then change it! Morris gambled with our clubs existence - let's pray he didn't get it really wrong.

Im with you on that, the parachute payments are there for a reason because costs in the prem are higher. I think what Mel was saying was about the impact of Covid. In that some clubs had money from parachute payments others were better because their overheads were less such as Wycombe.

Those clubs that dont fit into this such as Derby, the Gumps etc are more affected due to existing on gate receipts. Of course it dosnt help when your owner has spent all of the money and you have a large debt to service. Mel can say Covid stopped us servicing our debt but really its the fact we had the debt in the first place.

Our debt is smaller than others, Readings is I think £138m with wages of £40m and less money coming in than us. Stokes is also higher.  I think (guess) that their debt would be shareholders debt with smaller (peppercorn) repayments. Where as ours is to commercial organisations, hence much larger.