Transfer rumours

[TomTom92]

56 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Collins was derided left, right and centre at the beginning of last season. When he got injured many said that that was the season finished because we no longer had a striker. He went from being the early scapegoat to being the messiah. Just perhaps he can do something similar this season too?

No chance and I say that with upmost respect for his endeavours last season.

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

I think we need to be looking even further afield, like the far east for example

Norwich?

[Eoghan1884]

We were being linked to Victor Adeboyejo on deadline day, well thank god we didn’t get him. He’s after injuring his back and neck from a sneeze. No im not joking he sneezed too hard and is now out injured. 

[Eoghan1884]

Just now, Eoghan1884 said:

We were being linked to Victor Adeboyejo on deadline day, well thank god we didn’t get him. He’s after injuring his back and neck from a sneeze. No im not joking he sneezed too hard and is now out injured. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cwywj70wjq2o.amp

[Leicester Ram]

On 04/09/2024 at 19:10, TomTom92 said:

No chance and I say that with upmost respect for his endeavours last season.

Boro was a bit of a wake up call, you looked at what their strikers were doing that game and at the other end of the pitch Collo was falling over.

He will serve us well as a sub when we need a goal though, I think whatever league he is in he will be a threat from set pieces.

But if he’s starting games, we’re in trouble.

[jono]

On 03/09/2024 at 20:39, Tyler Durden said:

This has been alluded to elsewhere so apologies if repeating other posters but the issue for me wasn't the lack of finances or unwillingness to pay stupid fees.

The issue was that we have and still are despite the above fishing in the same pool as other clubs with far greater financial muscle then ourselves so of course we will lose out.

That's the most disappointing thing for me as basically we were destined for failure choosing this root before we even started. I would have thought it extremely naive of anyone at the club not to believe that a player of any quality would not have other potential suitors. 

Until we get extra financial backing, start producing home grown strikers or start actually looking further afield then this tale of woe is going to be extended indefinitely which is self inflicted, and for me not acceptable. 

Sorry, don’t get your point. You start by saying it’s not finance and end by saying until we get extra financial backing. So despite anything it’s about money. 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 hours ago, jono said:

Sorry, don’t get your point. You start by saying it’s not finance and end by saying until we get extra financial backing. So despite anything it’s about money. 

Or you could read the whole sentence: "...start producing home grown strikers or start actually looking further afield then this tale of woe is going to be extended indefinitely"

[MadAmster]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Or you could read the whole sentence: "...start producing home grown strikers or start actually looking further afield then this tale of woe is going to be extended indefinitely"

Daj is still with us and in the matchday squad. We brought Zetterstrom and Kenzo in from abroad. The Academy is starting to get improved results and we have 4 or 5 young uns away on age group international duty. With the odd exception, I think it could be 2 to 3 years before we see regular 1st teamers arriving from the Moor Farm production line. Let's build sustainably. That's what David clowes is aiming to do and I am patient enough to let him do the build his way as it's his money that has taken us from the brink to a position of hope.

[AutoWindscreens]

On 04/09/2024 at 19:10, TomTom92 said:

No chance and I say that with upmost respect for his endeavours last season.

It depends on the game and the oppo. Yates was superb against Bristol, but at Watford it felt like he couldn't get hold of anything, and I actually thought we looked better after Collins came on.

[Ghost of Clough]

17 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Daj is still with us and in the matchday squad. We brought Zetterstrom and Kenzo in from abroad. The Academy is starting to get improved results and we have 4 or 5 young uns away on age group international duty. With the odd exception, I think it could be 2 to 3 years before we see regular 1st teamers arriving from the Moor Farm production line. Let's build sustainably. That's what David clowes is aiming to do and I am patient enough to let him do the build his way as it's his money that has taken us from the brink to a position of hope.

The point made by @Tyler Durden (and many others, including myself), is that we could have done more in the foreign market to avoid competing with richer clubs for the same players. It has also been shown how Warne is reluctant to introduce yougnsters into the first team (odd minutes here and there). @jono chose to ignore those comments completely, and focus on the "Until we get extra financial backing..." part which preceded it.

On the foreign market
The club made an active decision not to look abroad for a forward. Instead, gambled on competing with other clubs for domestic based players. This was a gamble which ultimately failed, resulting in us to looking at other options.

On producing home grown players
Brown was an unused sub in 3 league games, then brought on in the last minute vs Bristol when 3-0 up. He also started on the bench vs Barrow, when it was the perfect opportunity for him to show the club what he can do. We gained nothing by giving Collins 60 minutes. We need to do better at giving our brightest talents more of an opportunity.
In 21/22, Thompson got 1521 minutes across 23 league games under Rooney. He then got only 160 minutes under Warne across 10 games in L1 (22/23), and was effectively pushed out the door by bringing in White. His game time only increased to 708 league minutes in 23/24

Minutes to others has also been extremely limited. Excluding games vs U21 sides, these are the minutes given to academy players under Warne in all competitions:
Cybulski - 90
Robinson - 45
Oduroh - 44
Aghatise - 14
Bardell - 14
Radcliffe - 11
Fapetu - 9
Weston - 6

For comparison, Ozoh got 183 mins for Palace before he got loaned to us. Chirewa got 152 mins for Wovles and Springett 240 mins for Norwich. All played the majority of those minutes in the PL. Whereas for us, Brown's the only academy player to have featured in the league under Warne (only 15 minutes!!!). Oduroh (19 mins) and Fapetu (7 mins) are the only other academy players to have featured in a competition other than the EFL Trophy.

As demonstrated by pretty much every Cat 1 club, youngsters get a tast of the 1st team environment (100-300 mins), and are then either loaned out to continue their development, or they step up permanently to the first team.

I'll reiterate a previous point - Warne needs to do better at bridging the gap.

[MadAmster]

Every other Cat 1 club didn't have to virtually rebuild in the wake of administration. Oduroh turned out not to look good and was let go. Fapetu, IMO, did but he's also been let go. Will PW start blooding more young guns? I certainly hope so but I won't be holding my breath this season.

[Dex]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The point made by @Tyler Durden (and many others, including myself), is that we could have done more in the foreign market to avoid competing with richer clubs for the same players. It has also been shown how Warne is reluctant to introduce yougnsters into the first team (odd minutes here and there). @jono chose to ignore those comments completely, and focus on the "Until we get extra financial backing..." part which preceded it.

On the foreign market
The club made an active decision not to look abroad for a forward. Instead, gambled on competing with other clubs for domestic based players. This was a gamble which ultimately failed, resulting in us to looking at other options.

On producing home grown players
Brown was an unused sub in 3 league games, then brought on in the last minute vs Bristol when 3-0 up. He also started on the bench vs Barrow, when it was the perfect opportunity for him to show the club what he can do. We gained nothing by giving Collins 60 minutes. We need to do better at giving our brightest talents more of an opportunity.
In 21/22, Thompson got 1521 minutes across 23 league games under Rooney. He then got only 160 minutes under Warne across 10 games in L1 (22/23), and was effectively pushed out the door by bringing in White. His game time only increased to 708 league minutes in 23/24

Minutes to others has also been extremely limited. Excluding games vs U21 sides, these are the minutes given to academy players under Warne in all competitions:
Cybulski - 90
Robinson - 45
Oduroh - 44
Aghatise - 14
Bardell - 14
Radcliffe - 11
Fapetu - 9
Weston - 6

For comparison, Ozoh got 183 mins for Palace before he got loaned to us. Chirewa got 152 mins for Wovles and Springett 240 mins for Norwich. All played the majority of those minutes in the PL. Whereas for us, Brown's the only academy player to have featured in the league under Warne (only 15 minutes!!!). Oduroh (19 mins) and Fapetu (7 mins) are the only other academy players to have featured in a competition other than the EFL Trophy.

As demonstrated by pretty much every Cat 1 club, youngsters get a tast of the 1st team environment (100-300 mins), and are then either loaned out to continue their development, or they step up permanently to the first team.

I'll reiterate a previous point - Warne needs to do better at bridging the gap.

Really insightful data there, and it definitely tells a story.

The only thing I'd suggest counter to this in Warne's favour is that the job he had vs the job Rooney had were completely different and our appetite for risk was very much different.

 

Are you going to risk giving youth talent a go in the first team when you're pushing for promotion and risk finishing third, or when you literally can't play any other players and are practically relegated anyway? I don't think many Derby fans would have appreciated the long game in starting Oduroh over Nyambe or Wilson at the back end of last season when we were trying to make a gap over Bolton.

 

I suspect that if we have a good season in the Championship, and end up well out of the relegation zone so that it frees up some games where we can play youngsters 'risk free', Warne would take it. I'd be interested in knowing at what point in the season Ozoh, Chirewa and Springett picked up their time in the first team as I suspect it's when Palace, Wolves and Norwich had nothing much else to play for. I have done no research on this though, and I'll leave myself open to ridicule for being wrong 😄 - just a feeling.

 

Edit: Thought about it a bit more: I suppose even if they got minutes earlier in the season, those clubs haven't had as much riding on the outcome of the season as well established clubs in their respective leagues. Their academies also hadn't been ransacked and so they could be more certain that the players could come in and do a job. 

I think we're just in a place where the good youth players that would have come into our first team around about now were sold by Quantuma for 50p and a Twix, and it could be a year or two before we can redevelop a new batch of good youth players. At the same time, we "should" be able to establish ourselves as a Championship team that can afford to take the risk with a  youth player.

Edited September 6 by Dex

[Ghost of Clough]

58 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Every other Cat 1 club didn't have to virtually rebuild in the wake of administration. Oduroh turned out not to look good and was let go. Fapetu, IMO, did but he's also been let go. Will PW start blooding more young guns? I certainly hope so but I won't be holding my breath this season.

So why hasn't Thompson had more minutes in the league? Why has Robinson been sitting in the U21s for 2 years, despite getting his league debut under Rooney? He's even been on the bench in league games where we've been 3-0 up. Why wasn't Weston rewarded for his good performance in the EFL Trophy? The opportunities have been there, Warne just opted not to use them.

 

Edit: reply tagged on
 

11 minutes ago, Dex said:

Are you going to risk giving youth talent a go in the first team when you're pushing for promotion and risk finishing third

Unless you think bringing someone like Robinson on when 3-0 up with 30 mins to go is going to cost us points, then there has been several opportunities

Edited September 6 by Ghost of Clough

[Srg]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

So why hasn't Thompson had more minutes in the league? Why has Robinson been sitting in the U21s for 2 years, despite getting his league debut under Rooney? He's even been on the bench in league games where we've been 3-0 up. Why wasn't Weston rewarded for his good performance in the EFL Trophy? The opportunities have been there, Warne just opted not to use them.

 

Edit: reply tagged on
 

Unless you think bringing someone like Robinson on when 3-0 up with 30 mins to go is going to cost us points, then there has been several opportunities

I agree I want to see more youngsters, but with respect to Thommo, we know what he is at this point.

[Allen]

Must admit, other than reading the match reports and watching highlights on Rams TV, I know very little about the under age teams at the club. If anyone who watches the youngsters play could let us know who they feel could be pushing towards the first team squad (other than Daj), that would be much appreciated. I get the impression most of the more talented players are at least a season away from possibly being considered but hopefully I am wrong on that.

[brady1993]

23 minutes ago, Srg said:

I agree I want to see more youngsters, but with respect to Thommo, we know what he is at this point.

Do we though?

Because he looked good when he first broke through and with investment in him you'd have expected him to kick on from that point. However he's had less minutes since we got relegated than the season in which he broke through (and he only played the second half of that season really). And this is all at arguably critical years for development. 

[Srg]

5 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Do we though?

Because he looked good when he first broke through and with investment in him you'd have expected him to kick on from that point. However he's had less minutes since we got relegated than the season in which he broke through (and he only played the second half of that season really). And this is all at arguably critical years for development. 

I, personally, think we do. He's an undersized player who has games he can effect and some he can't. He's mainly improved things when we've lacked other players who can press like he can. I don't think he's starting Championship calibre, but he is a useful squad player.

[Dex]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

So why hasn't Thompson had more minutes in the league? Why has Robinson been sitting in the U21s for 2 years, despite getting his league debut under Rooney? He's even been on the bench in league games where we've been 3-0 up. Why wasn't Weston rewarded for his good performance in the EFL Trophy? The opportunities have been there, Warne just opted not to use them.

 

Edit: reply tagged on
 

Unless you think bringing someone like Robinson on when 3-0 up with 30 mins to go is going to cost us points, then there has been several opportunities

Without wanting to get dragged into a rabbit hole here, since January we have been 3 goals up 4 times. Of those, two of them we scored our third goal in the 85+ minute.

 

Feb 13th: Exeter City 0 - 3 Derby (Bird, 24'; NML 52'; Barkhuizen 62')

March 2nd: Derby 3-0 Port Vale (OG 5'; Gayle 44'; Sibs 58')

March 9th: Bristol Rovers 0-3 Derby (Gayle 55'; Barkhuizen 58'; Waghorn 89')

Derby 3-0 Leyton Orient (Wilson 10'; Bradley 18'; Bradley 86')

 

The rest of our games were draws, losses or a win by 1 goal (with the single exception of Fleetwood Town away on January 6th which we won 1-3).

It's not a lot to go for.

 

EDIT: And of course Carlisle at Home. No  idea how I missed that one 😄

Edited September 6 by Dex

[Ghost of Clough]

52 minutes ago, Srg said:

I agree I want to see more youngsters, but with respect to Thommo, we know what he is at this point.

Not good enough in our 1st season in L1 for more than the equivalent to two 90s? We loaned in White and gave him 539 minutes when we could have given them to Thompson (or Robinson). You can't tell me we would have been worse off.
Why loan in Springett for 2.5 90s, when we could have given those minutes to one of our own youngsters?

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, Dex said:

Without wanting to get dragged into a rabbit hole here, since January we have been 3 goals up 4 times. Of those, two of them we scored our third goal in the 85+ minute.

 

Feb 13th: Exeter City 0 - 3 Derby (Bird, 24'; NML 52'; Barkhuizen 62')

March 2nd: Derby 3-0 Port Vale (OG 5'; Gayle 44'; Sibs 58')

March 9th: Bristol Rovers 0-3 Derby (Gayle 55'; Barkhuizen 58'; Waghorn 89')

Derby 3-0 Leyton Orient (Wilson 10'; Bradley 18'; Bradley 86')

 

The rest of our games were draws, losses or a win by 1 goal (with the single exception of Fleetwood Town away on January 6th which we won 1-3).

It's not a lot to go for.

Why from January and ignoring the other season and a half under Warne?