UEFA Euro 2024 Thread

[Ram-Alf]

"England expects every man to do his duty"

The above in bold has been like this for almost 60 years, 1970, England 2 West Germany 3 after being 2-0 up Alf Ramsey took off our talisman Bobby Charlton, We had Peter Osgood (the Cat) in goal who wasn't at his best as Gordon Banks was ill...some say nobbled 😬

Since that day we have failed, We've had the players unfortunately we've failed in the Manager department. Managers since Alf Ramsey

Joe Mercer...Uncle Joe

Don Revie...Bailed to Saudi

Ron Greenwood...Mr nice guy...instead of a certain Brian Clough

Bobby Robson...Tried and tried like the spider but never got there

Graham Taylor...Do I not like orange

Terry Venables...Xmas tree brought a new dimension to our game

Glenn Hoddle...The bible brought him down

Howard Wilkinson...😂 good god

Kevin Keegan...Found international football to complicated

Peter Taylor...Managed the 1 game...what could have been aye 😁

Sven-Göran Eriksson...loved the weather girl and smooched with the Beckhams...star struck

Steve McClaren...That rainy day at Wembley killed him

Fabio Capello...Struggled with the English media

Stuart Pearce...If he'd have scored that penalty he'd be our manager still 😁

Roy Hodgson...Only lost 8 games in the 4 years, Very steady...🤷‍♂️

Sam Allardyce...Never go out for a meal with someone you don't know 😉

Gareth Southgate... only lost 15 from 93...but i've never taken to him...sugar n spice 😬

[Walkley Ram]

Defending Southgate is this summer's defending Warne....

Southgate has had an average time as manager. His win % means nothing as we have more meaningless internationals now than ever. He's had easy routes through tournaments, which all came to an end once we faced a reasonable team. I can't remember beating anyone worth beating in a tournament besides Germany? Having said that, you can only beat the teams in front of you.

His defining legacy (assuming he won't win this tournament) will be doing well with the most gifted set of players we've had in decades. He's done a great job overcoming club rivalries in the camp. But his insistence on playing his way, when it's clear that he needs to try a plan B is infuriating.

He dug his heels in last night and didn't make any of the changes that most fans and pundits were calling for. When he did finally make those changes, we looked a different team, but it was far too late. It's absolutely infuriating. And you know none of the players who made a difference last night will start next game.

[TimRam]

If the alternative to winning is final or semi final, I'd take that over finishing bottom of a first group stage table.

Edited Wednesday at 10:39 by TimRam

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Walkley Ram said:

Defending Southgate is this summer's defending Warne....

Southgate has had an average time as manager. His win % means nothing as we have more meaningless internationals now than ever. He's had easy routes through tournaments, which all came to an end once we faced a reasonable team. I can't remember beating anyone worth beating in a tournament besides Germany? Having said that, you can only beat the teams in front of you.

His defining legacy (assuming he won't win this tournament) will be doing well with the most gifted set of players we've had in decades. He's done a great job overcoming club rivalries in the camp. But his insistence on playing his way, when it's clear that he needs to try a plan B is infuriating.

He dug his heels in last night and didn't make any of the changes that most fans and pundits were calling for. When he did finally make those changes, we looked a different team, but it was far too late. It's absolutely infuriating. And you know none of the players who made a difference last night will start next game.

Hopefully, those that defend Southgate, just like those that defended Warne, will be left to reap the rewards, whilst the others will be left to keep repeating meaningless points...

[cannable]

Once more, with feeling; we have lots of good #10s/wingers, Rice and Kane. This is not some Uber generational England squad that should be sweeping all before it.

[TomTom92]

15 minutes ago, cannable said:

Once more, with feeling; we have lots of good #10s/wingers, Rice and Kane. This is not some Uber generational England squad that should be sweeping all before it.

No but we should be making a better show of this tournament.

We've been one of the most boring teams to watch and with the talent we have thats unacceptable. 

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, cannable said:

Once more, with feeling; we have lots of good #10s/wingers, Rice and Kane. This is not some Uber generational England squad that should be sweeping all before it.

12 of our 26 man squad play for teams that finished outside of the top 6.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

54 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

"England expects every man to do his duty"

The above in bold has been like this for almost 60 years, 1970, England 2 West Germany 3 after being 2-0 up Alf Ramsey took off our talisman Bobby Charlton, We had Peter Osgood (the Cat) in goal who wasn't at his best as Gordon Banks was ill...some say nobbled 😬

Since that day we have failed, We've had the players unfortunately we've failed in the Manager department. Managers since Alf Ramsey

Joe Mercer...Uncle Joe

Don Revie...Bailed to Saudi

Ron Greenwood...Mr nice guy...instead of a certain Brian Clough

Bobby Robson...Tried and tried like the spider but never got there

Graham Taylor...Do I not like orange

Terry Venables...Xmas tree brought a new dimension to our game

Glenn Hoddle...The bible brought him down

Howard Wilkinson...😂 good god

Kevin Keegan...Found international football to complicated

Peter Taylor...Managed the 1 game...what could have been aye 😁

Sven-Göran Eriksson...loved the weather girl and smooched with the Beckhams...star struck

Steve McClaren...That rainy day at Wembley killed him

Fabio Capello...Struggled with the English media

Stuart Pearce...If he'd have scored that penalty he'd be our manager still 😁

Roy Hodgson...Only lost 8 games in the 4 years, Very steady...🤷‍♂️

Sam Allardyce...Never go out for a meal with someone you don't know 😉

Gareth Southgate... only lost 15 from 93...but i've never taken to him...sugar n spice 😬

30 years of hurt. Adding nearly another 30 means as much time has gone since and it seems like 5 minutes.  Knock off 30 years the other way and The Beatles were in the charts and it was 3 years till moon landing.    More depressing than a Graham Taylor touchline rant and more concerning than a draw with Denmark.  Times pushing, really should get off me arse and do something new. 😂   

[TomTom92]

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

12 of our 26 man squad play for teams that finished outside of the top 6.

Ironically the players that are starting and letting us down are the big time charlies.

But to have the players available to us that we do, the level of performances have been shocking. 

This squad may only be QF worthy, but i'd rather see us knocked out playing entertaining football and scoring goals as opposed to boring every man and his dog to tears. Same outcome but the level of support and feel good factor would be vastly different. 

[SSD]

If we have one ray of hope, at Euro 2020 (2021) we were average in the group stages. All of a sudden, once the pressure was on and the players had to get out of 2nd gear, we actually played really really well and made it to the final, which as we know we should have won. 

I do think Southgate has been very lucky in tournaments too. He's mainly avoided big sides until later in the knockout stages. 2018 World Cup we played Sweden, Columbia and Croatia in the knockouts, the easiest bloody route to the final yet Croatia's big lumps had our centre halves on toast. Euro 2021 we played the majority of the matches at Wembley. Qatar World Cup we managed to smash Iran and Wales, had an easy last 16 round against Senegal and then the French dumped us out. If we was in that Austria Netherlands France group, we'd have fallen away. Our group stage yet again is the easiest by a country mile and we still can't dominate.

Makes you wonder if we did have a manager who could actually get the most out of this squad.

Edited Wednesday at 12:03 by SSD

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, angieram said:

Netherlands were wide open at the back against Austria and they'll push forward in attack - I think we'd have a good chance of beating them.

I agree Angie, but I'm mindful that they adopted a very different style of play against the French, where they effectively throttled the game and in doing so, completely nullified the much vaunted French attack. I think it's likely they'll employ similar tactics against us rather than the more gung ho approach we saw against Austria. That said, I see Belgium lurking in the background too and that's a game I'd rather we avoid, at least until we show something more than we have. 

On a more general note, I've tried to remain supportive of Southgate, as I feel some of the criticism is way over the top, but I do wonder why he continues to persist with systems after they've proven sub-optimal. Particularly Foden and Bellingham who perhaps wrongly, I believe should be played in the positions in which they've prospered for their clubs.

[Ram-Alf]

20 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

30 years of hurt. Adding nearly another 30 means as much time has gone since and it seems like 5 minutes.  Knock off 30 years the other way and The Beatles were in the charts and it was 3 years till moon landing.    More depressing than a Graham Taylor touchline rant and more concerning than a draw with Denmark.  Times pushing, really should get off me arse and do something new. 😂   

I know where you're coming from Gee, I love my Country and Club, But with age comes a sense of reality and calmness, The FA in their wisdom go for what they perceive a "safe option", We've had England managers and a sprinkling of players constantly in the media and our leading sports journalists need a headline.

Under Venables we were nearly there, Under Southgate we were...but fortune favours the brave, We just don't seem to grasp the nettle and run at defenders..."who do not like it up em"

Never mind...a day on the lash on Sunday and another game of football 😉  

[Gabby'sThighs]

2 hours ago, Walkley Ram said:

His defining legacy (assuming he won't win this tournament) will be doing well with the most gifted set of players we've had in decades.

I hear this a lot but I also heard it a lot during the years when we had Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Campbell, Beckham, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Owen, Rooney, Gascoigne, Shearer, Seaman, etc.
Even the 2016 squad included Hart, Walker, Stones, Smalling, Cahill, Dele Alli, Barkley, Wilshere, Kane, Rooney, Sterling, Sturridge, Rashford, Vardy. And the 2016 team was crap but, on paper, those players were really good at the time.

We have players of a similar calibre now: some good, some very good, a couple of the best around. We've also got the usual group of players who are ageing out, or have had patchy domestic seasons, and are there based on reputation. And some talented youngsters who lack experience.

Edited Wednesday at 12:46 by Gabby'sThighs

[rynny]

The management has been poor and the players have been poor. This stat highlights the lack of attacking intent we have had.

[Bris Vegas]

5 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

This doesn't make a lot of sense.

You were saying that Argentina weren't any good and I was rewriting history to say they were. 

You also say that there is meaning behind England not beating a top 10 side, in a knockout match (but don't forget foreign soil). But you then list loads of unlucky matches, except you also include Lampards disallowed goal in a game England were dire in.

I'm not sure why this knockout question is so hard to understand. Between 96 and 04, we lost 4 knockout matches from 5 tournaments, 2 on pens, one vs Brazil, one vs Argentina when Beckham got sent off. Small sample size, but a but unlucky.

From 06 to 16, we were dire. Terrible managers, over hyped and idiot celebrity players.

Under Southgate, a game vs Croatia we weren't quite good enough in, a pen loss vs Italy, then a close game vs France when we missed a pen too.

There ars fine margins in knockout games against the best teams. A couple more penalty wins and we could have been one of the most successful tournament sides in last 30 years.

We probably lack a little belief at key moments and it's a vicious circle now.

A lot of fine margins but one common denominator, we lost them all.

Like I said, you can see it as just a major coincidence or a completely pointless stat. 

I view it in a way that England have continuously failed every time we have played a decent side. I see Southgate’s tenure as exactly the same and until we beat a good side under him, I don’t see how he has faired any better than Sven.

[Mr. P]

9 minutes ago, rynny said:

The management has been poor and the players have been poor. This stat highlights the lack of attacking intent we have had.

That stat is glorious. 

[Bris Vegas]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

If a semi final, final and quarter final at International level isn't a track record them I'm not really sure what is.

Deschamps record in his first 3 tournaments was quarter final, final, final, so really not much difference to Southgate. 

Deschamps win percentage as France manager is 60.3% compared to Southgates 61.3%.

IMO Southgate hasn’t been any better than Sven.

England may have got further, but IMO that is because under Sven we played better opposition in an earlier round.

They both have a common denominator. Play a top ranked side and lose.

Sven lost 4 games over 3 major tournaments - Portugal x2, France and Brazil. One being a group game.

Southgate lost 4 games over 3 major tournaments - Belgium, Croatia, Italy and France. One being a group game.

You mentioned Deschamps not having a track record. But France beat 2014 WC winners Germany in 2016, they beat Argentina and Belgium en route to the final in 18. Even before winning the WC, they at least beat some top sides.

In my mind Southgate hasn’t recorded a single win over a top 10 ranked side at the WC or Euros. You may disagree.

[Gaspode]

Talksport suggesting that our own Lee Carsley might be in line to replace Southgate when he finally goes....

[G STAR RAM]

48 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

IMO Southgate hasn’t been any better than Sven.

England may have got further, but IMO that is because under Sven we played better opposition in an earlier round.

They both have a common denominator. Play a top ranked side and lose.

Sven lost 4 games over 3 major tournaments - Portugal x2, France and Brazil. One being a group game.

Southgate lost 4 games over 3 major tournaments - Belgium, Croatia, Italy and France. One being a group game.

You mentioned Deschamps not having a track record. But France beat 2014 WC winners Germany in 2016, they beat Argentina and Belgium en route to the final in 18. Even before winning the WC, they at least beat some top sides.

In my mind Southgate hasn’t recorded a single win over a top 10 ranked side at the WC or Euros. You may disagree.

I think that overlooks that Sven had a team full of world class players, I don't believe Southgate has, or has ever had.

[Srg]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think that overlooks that Sven had a team full of world class players, I don't believe Southgate has, or has ever had.

What? and I'm just going to copy Wikipedia here

 

Bellingham

IFFHS Men's World Team: 2023[144]

Golden Boy: 2023[7]

Globe Soccer Awards Emerging Player of the Year: 2023[145]

FIFA FIFPRO Men's World 11: 2023[146]

La Liga Player of the Month: August 2023,[66] October 2023[76]

La Liga Player of the Season: 2023–24[10]

La Liga Team of the Season: 2023–24[147]

Laureus World Breakthrough of the Year: 2024[85]

The Athletic European Player of the Season: 2023–24[148]

The Athletic European Young Player of the Season: 2023–24[148]

The Athletic European Men's Team of the Season: 2023–24[148]

UEFA Champions League Team of the Season: 2023–24[149]

UEFA Champions League Young Player of the Season: 2023–24[87]

 

Harry Kane

Bundesliga Goal of the Month: October 2023, November 2023, December 2023, February 2024, April 2024[376]

Bundesliga Team of the Season: 2023–24[377]

VDV Bundesliga Team of the Season: 2023–24[378]

UEFA Champions League top scorer: 2023–24[233]

UEFA Champions League Team of the Season: 2023–24[234]

European Golden Shoe: 2023–24[379]

IFFHS World's Best Top Division Goal Scorer: 2023[372]

IFFHS Men's World Team: 2023[373]

 

Phil Foden

FWA Footballer of the Year: 2023–24[155]

Premier League Player of the Season: 2023–24[1]

Manchester City Player of the Year: 2023–24[99]

UEFA Champions League Squad of the Season: 2020–21,[152] 2023–24[153]

 

Kyle Walker

FIFA Club World Cup Silver Ball: 2023[172]

FIFA FIFPro World XI: 2023[173]

Manchester City Captain

 

Could keep going here, but that is objective nonsense.