UEFA Euro 2024 Thread

[TomTom92]

6 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

 

                     

Care to expand?

[Premier ram]

4 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Care to expand?

Southgates damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t with people like you isn’t he , fans are demanding changes , he makes changes , fans moan they are the wrong changes, in what way is his treatment of those players a disgrace, how about looking at the facts , we are unbeaten , we are top of the group , we have qualified for knockouts what more do you want

          Let’s see how the tournament pans out before we start sending the manager and players to the gallows

[TomTom92]

14 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

Southgates damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t with people like you isn’t he , fans are demanding changes , he makes changes , fans moan they are the wrong changes, in what way is his treatment of those players a disgrace, how about looking at the facts , we are unbeaten , we are top of the group , we have qualified for knockouts what more do you want

          Let’s see how the tournament pans out before we start sending the manager and players to the gallows

Its not just about the last two matches. 

Our recent form, friendlies or not have been pretty underwhelming. Personally I think he got France wrong in 2022. Obviously he's doing something wrong seeing as the majority of fans seem disgruntled. 

We may well win it like Portugal did, playing dreary football and relying on pennos etc. Good for Southgate if we do. But if i had to put my mortgage on the outcome it wouldn't be us making the last 4 never mind winning it. 

Edited Tuesday at 09:29 by TomTom92

[Srg]

27 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

Southgates damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t with people like you isn’t he , fans are demanding changes , he makes changes , fans moan they are the wrong changes, in what way is his treatment of those players a disgrace, how about looking at the facts , we are unbeaten , we are top of the group , we have qualified for knockouts what more do you want

          Let’s see how the tournament pans out before we start sending the manager and players to the gallows

Have had this very argument for so long now.

top of the group, qualified etc. - yes, we know, in a weak group, with nothing about us which suggests we could go as far as this group of players should be able to. So what are we meant to do? Happy clap until we go out? Isn't that just playing hindsight?

Now, I disagree with the word "disgrace", but tactically poor, cautious, scared, safe etc are all words you could use. The guy is harping on about a Kalvin Phillips problem for crying out loud, the lad was never good to begin with, and he didn't even play him in Qatar... so what's he saying exactly?

He seems to lack the understanding of what squad he has selected. 90% of them want short passes to feet, and he wonders why we get sucked in deep and can't get in behind. He also only took 1 left back, and he's still not fit. Laughable.

[Ambitious]

I do feel for Southgate. I know his time has come and this is his last tournament regardless, but people do genuinely believe that he should be doing in 5 weeks what it takes top managers to do in 47 weeks of the year. 

Coaching in international management isn't important, it really isn't. The more complexity you try and bring to the system, the slower and more second guessing will be made by the players. They simply don't have the time to work on it and iron out the deficiencies. 

Foden playing left midfield is a prime example: the way he plays the position is so very unique and the movements he makes aren't typical for a player in that position. He's then got players who he doesn't play with trying to forecast his movements and where/how he wants the ball playing to him. In all of this, we simply don't have a fit/comptent left back to call upon so we're stuck with a right back filling in a gap that can't go on the outside. It slows the game down and quickly the ball is being played as everyone's not really on the same page.

Yet, if Southgate went into the game with Foden on the bench and Gordon playing left midfield then he would've been hammered for not playing the strongest players available to him. Bellingham has matured into an attacking midfielder, yet some anticipate that he can just drop into a deeper role and allow Rice to cover the opposition. DESPITE ALL THIS, we're constantly told (and well aware) that our defence is our weakest point so the obvious thing to do is to make them more vulnerable, right? Well, according to the majority of England supporters it is anyway. 

Southgate has his faults, I think he's made a lot of mistakes, but the biggest he's made for this tournament is trying to appease the cries of the England fans and avoided picking his 'favourites' to go with the form players. Unfortunately, players tend to be in form for various different reasons and taking them out of an environment where they are producing their good form and throwing them into a brand new one is unlikely to get the same results. 

He just needs to address the imbalance in the team, first and foremost, rather than worry about what players are in the starting XI. If I was going to think outside the box: 

Pickford

Walker    Guehi   Stones

Trent      Rice        Wharton      Saka

Bellingham     Foden

Kane

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

Ironically I think Southgate would trust bringing Grealish on more than Gordon.

Not every team has stunk the joint out like us. Plus by all accounts it’s the same front 4 today allegedly. Clearly bringing in Gallagher will make the world of difference.

Looking at it there will only be 2 teams capable of taking 9 points from the group stages and only 2 teams capable of taking 7 points, maybe we haven't 'stunk the joint out' as much as people are making out but guess we will know more after tonight. 

Playing Gallagher will give a completely outlook to the team, unless you see him and TAA as similar sort of players.

[TomTom92]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Looking at it there will only be 2 teams capable of taking 9 points from the group stages and only 2 teams capable of taking 7 points, maybe we haven't 'stunk the joint out' as much as people are making out but guess we will know more after tonight. 

Playing Gallagher will give a completely outlook to the team, unless you see him and TAA as similar sort of players.

Its more the level of performance that's concerned me. A draw against Denmark is fair game. 

Think Gallagher is an upgrade on Trent but personally i'd have started Wharton. Think our left side is dreadful without a recognised left back so disappointing for Gordon not to get a sniff.

[Srg]

31 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I do feel for Southgate. I know his time has come and this is his last tournament regardless, but people do genuinely believe that he should be doing in 5 weeks what it takes top managers to do in 47 weeks of the year. 

Coaching in international management isn't important, it really isn't. The more complexity you try and bring to the system, the slower and more second guessing will be made by the players. They simply don't have the time to work on it and iron out the deficiencies. 

Foden playing left midfield is a prime example: the way he plays the position is so very unique and the movements he makes aren't typical for a player in that position. He's then got players who he doesn't play with trying to forecast his movements and where/how he wants the ball playing to him. In all of this, we simply don't have a fit/comptent left back to call upon so we're stuck with a right back filling in a gap that can't go on the outside. It slows the game down and quickly the ball is being played as everyone's not really on the same page.

Yet, if Southgate went into the game with Foden on the bench and Gordon playing left midfield then he would've been hammered for not playing the strongest players available to him. Bellingham has matured into an attacking midfielder, yet some anticipate that he can just drop into a deeper role and allow Rice to cover the opposition. DESPITE ALL THIS, we're constantly told (and well aware) that our defence is our weakest point so the obvious thing to do is to make them more vulnerable, right? Well, according to the majority of England supporters it is anyway. 

Southgate has his faults, I think he's made a lot of mistakes, but the biggest he's made for this tournament is trying to appease the cries of the England fans and avoided picking his 'favourites' to go with the form players. Unfortunately, players tend to be in form for various different reasons and taking them out of an environment where they are producing their good form and throwing them into a brand new one is unlikely to get the same results. 

He just needs to address the imbalance in the team, first and foremost, rather than worry about what players are in the starting XI. If I was going to think outside the box: 

Pickford

Walker    Guehi   Stones

Trent      Rice        Wharton      Saka

Bellingham     Foden

Kane

Why are you taking one of the best right wingers in the league and putting him left wing back? This doesn't solve any of the issue of no one running beyond anyone. It's the same.

The only logical fixes are dropping Foden for Gordon (with Mainoo or Wharton for TAA), or bringing Bellingham backwards for TAA, moving Foden inside and putting Gordon on the left. You could play Bowen to achieve the same thing, but Saka is capable of going in behind more than Foden is.

[Alph]

England will score 5 today. If you don't put it on at the bookies then don't come crying on here. I can sense it

[Shipley Ram]

[The_Sheriff]

55 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I do feel for Southgate. I know his time has come and this is his last tournament regardless, but people do genuinely believe that he should be doing in 5 weeks what it takes top managers to do in 47 weeks of the year. 

Coaching in international management isn't important, it really isn't. The more complexity you try and bring to the system, the slower and more second guessing will be made by the players. They simply don't have the time to work on it and iron out the deficiencies. 

Foden playing left midfield is a prime example: the way he plays the position is so very unique and the movements he makes aren't typical for a player in that position. He's then got players who he doesn't play with trying to forecast his movements and where/how he wants the ball playing to him. In all of this, we simply don't have a fit/comptent left back to call upon so we're stuck with a right back filling in a gap that can't go on the outside. It slows the game down and quickly the ball is being played as everyone's not really on the same page.

Yet, if Southgate went into the game with Foden on the bench and Gordon playing left midfield then he would've been hammered for not playing the strongest players available to him. Bellingham has matured into an attacking midfielder, yet some anticipate that he can just drop into a deeper role and allow Rice to cover the opposition. DESPITE ALL THIS, we're constantly told (and well aware) that our defence is our weakest point so the obvious thing to do is to make them more vulnerable, right? Well, according to the majority of England supporters it is anyway. 

Southgate has his faults, I think he's made a lot of mistakes, but the biggest he's made for this tournament is trying to appease the cries of the England fans and avoided picking his 'favourites' to go with the form players. Unfortunately, players tend to be in form for various different reasons and taking them out of an environment where they are producing their good form and throwing them into a brand new one is unlikely to get the same results. 

He just needs to address the imbalance in the team, first and foremost, rather than worry about what players are in the starting XI. If I was going to think outside the box: 

Pickford

Walker    Guehi   Stones

Trent      Rice        Wharton      Saka

Bellingham     Foden

Kane

Saka as a wing back on the wrong side, stones on the wrong side... I think you are creating the imbalance you are trying to avoid.

Great post though with solid arguments 

 

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

... If I was going to think outside the box: 

Pickford

Walker    Guehi   Stones

Trent      Rice        Wharton      Saka

Bellingham     Foden

Kane

I think we need at least Pickford inside the box, otherwise we could be opening ourselves up for all sorts of problems!  😲

 

Oh... erm... hang on... 

[AndyinLiverpool]

2 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

Its not just about the last two matches. 

Our recent form, friendlies or not have been pretty underwhelming. Personally I think he got France wrong in 2022. Obviously he's doing something wrong seeing as the majority of fans seem disgruntled. 

We may well win it like Portugal did, playing dreary football and relying on pennos etc. Good for Southgate if we do. But if i had to put my mortgage on the outcome it wouldn't be us making the last 4 never mind winning it. 

I wouldn't judge what is or isn't a majority based on the amount of noise produced.

[TomTom92]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I wouldn't judge what is or isn't a majority based on the amount of noise produced.

Not seeing many people defending Southgate.

Plus if the majority of English fans are happy with us being in the bottom 3 xG when we have our front 4 then thats good for them. But i imagine many are like me. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

Just now, TomTom92 said:

Not seeing many people defending Southgate.

Plus if the majority of English fans are happy with us being in the bottom 3 xG when we have our front 4 then thats good for them. But i imagine many are like me. 

Perhaps people don't want to get involved in an unseemly slanging match.

 

[Ambitious]

2 hours ago, Srg said:

Why are you taking one of the best right wingers in the league and putting him left wing back? This doesn't solve any of the issue of no one running beyond anyone. It's the same.

The only logical fixes are dropping Foden for Gordon (with Mainoo or Wharton for TAA), or bringing Bellingham backwards for TAA, moving Foden inside and putting Gordon on the left. You could play Bowen to achieve the same thing, but Saka is capable of going in behind more than Foden is.

Saka is a left footed winger, who started out as a left wing back and knows the position well. The reason he plays RW at Arsenal is because it suits Arteta's system and how he wants to play, but the system and personnel is very different for England so whilst he plays right wing at club level, he's still very capable on playing on the left and providing width. 

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Looking at it there will only be 2 teams capable of taking 9 points from the group stages and only 2 teams capable of taking 7 points, maybe we haven't 'stunk the joint out' as much as people are making out but guess we will know more after tonight. 

Yeah, I was just saying this earlier - a lot of the (on paper) better teams have struggled in the groups and there have been some pretty dull games. England are by no means the only team who have huffed and puffed their way through some scrappy performances

 

[Srg]

51 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Saka is a left footed winger, who started out as a left wing back and knows the position well. The reason he plays RW at Arsenal is because it suits Arteta's system and how he wants to play, but the system and personnel is very different for England so whilst he plays right wing at club level, he's still very capable on playing on the left and providing width. 

So what you're saying is... the position he plays his club which has made him the player he is now, with all the success and plaudits doesn't matter because before he was all that, he played a bit of left wing back? That would be Southgate logic, to be fair.

[Ambitious]

19 minutes ago, Srg said:

So what you're saying is... the position he plays his club which has made him the player he is now, with all the success and plaudits doesn't matter because before he was all that, he played a bit of left wing back? That would be Southgate logic, to be fair.

I do find that ironic, considering Southgate has been playing him right wing for England in a different system and personnel to the one he's used to with Arsenal and he's had little impact. A 'position' without highlighting the 'role' doesn't provide much context either. Arteta uses Havertz/Jesus as the central striker with both wide men playing as inverted wide forwards. Harry Kane plays very differently to both of those and wants the ball in a very different way. 

Saka, at least to my knowledge, is the only player within the squad who could play left wing without having to cut back on to his right foot. I know Gordon plays left wing, but is also right footed. As Trippier is also cutting back on to his right foot and struggling to provide width.  Ideally, you would have Saka right wing (of course) but you would also have a full-back providing width on the left hand side - something England don't have in their squad as Shaw is injured. 

I'd simply use Saka (left footed) and Trent (right footed) as the width and provide width. It means the opposition has to spread their defensive shape and space within the lines becomes less congested. It allows Bellingham and Foden to play between the lines and all being well: Saka and Trent become a good outlet to getting then ball into the box.

Edited Tuesday at 13:47 by Ambitious

[Srg]

Just now, Ambitious said:

I do find that ironic, considering Southgate has been playing him right wing for England in a different system and personnel to the one he's used to with Arsenal and he's had few little impact. A 'position' without highlighting the 'role' doesn't provide much context either. Arteta uses Havertz/Jesus as the central striker with both wide men playing as inverted wide forwards. Harry Kane plays very differently to both of those and wants the ball in a very different way. 

Saka, at least to my knowledge, is the only player within the squad who could play left wing without having to cut back on to his right foot. I know Gordon plays left wing, but is also right footed. As Trippier is also cutting back on to his right foot and struggling to provide width.  Ideally, you would have Saka right wing (of course) but you would also have a full-back providing width on the left hand side - something England don't have in their squad as Shaw is injured. 

I'd simply use Saka (left footed) and Trent (right footed) as the width and provide width. It means the opposition has to spread their defensive shape and space within the lines becomes less congested. It allows Bellingham and Foden to play between the lines and all being well: Saka and Trent become a good outlet to getting then ball into the box.

Cutting back isn't the problem, it's the willingness to run in behind and not be suckered in to wanting the ball to feet.