Premier League the most exciting in the world?

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

Side note: dishwater or ditchwater?

Dishwater.

[Alty_Ram]

I know that we are back within one tier of the PL but I can't say that I have any great urgency to get back in there. I don't know how you become competitive without spending either a shedload of money (and spend it well) or have really good business model like one or two of the smaller teams that have managed to get established (but they are the exception to the rule).

Otherwise it just looks like a 38 game season where you have to get the better of your clashes against the half dozen relegation fodder clubs around you and otherwise just accept regular rogerings from the likes of Man City while while pundits describe your 5-0 home defeat as "pathetic", "hopeless", "spineless" or whatever, despite the fact that your squad cost less than De Bryne's boots. I've watched quite a lot of games this year and the Sheff Utd games have just been relentlessly depressing and yet I fully expect them to be right up there in the Championship next year. 

This last year it's been nice to watch Derby games with a decent expectation of victory home or away, but for a whole bunch of clubs, the PL seems to be about trying to get 40 points or a point a game and hoping that there are 3 teams worse than you and getting put to the sword in most of the others. At least to be fair to them, Forest have had a go in most games and haven't been battered too often. Obviously our last effort in the PL re-defined abysmal, but this year Sheff Utd have just been awful and must be a really hard watch for their fans. They have just broken the 100 goals conceded milestone with still 2 games to go and that puts even our record to shame. So we never held the most goals conceded in a single PL game and now we don't even have the most goas conceded in a 38 game season. They are on 16 points which is only slightly better than our record breaking awful season. If there hadn't been some other really poor teams to steal points off then they might even have beaten it.

[Foreveram]

10 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

My understanding...

Originally "Ditchwater".  (As in 3 or 4 centuries back?).
More commonly "Dishwater" nowadays.

Outside of an NG postcode, ain't nobody doing their washing in a ditch any more!  👀

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have an NG postcode and a dishwasher, now all we need is some of that there electrickery  😳

[eddielewis]

I have barely watched an entire 90 mins of Prem football for the past two seasons. Maybe it was our turmoil of administration that has changed my thoughts about the game in general but when I do watch teams like Man Utd, Chelsea etc I just see how much they have spent on those players and how much they pay them every week and all I see are lazy/scared footballers who aren't willing to give their all because they are on a comfortable £150k+ a week. Most of the top 12/3 clubs are just soulless organisations who just milk their fans for all their worth and the inevitability of foreign regular season games will be the final straw for some die hard fans. 

I have found much more enjoyment in watching and following the Bundesliga and also the J league (which games have become accessible to watch for free on You-tube) where the atmosphere and sheer desire by both players and fans have not been diminished by greed.

 

 

[TigerTedd]

8 hours ago, Alty_Ram said:

but for a whole bunch of clubs, the PL seems to be about trying to get 40 points or a point a game and hoping that there are 3 teams worse than you and getting put to the sword in most of the others.

Be fair, Man Utd used to be good once. 

[Bris Vegas]

The PL is only good because of the top teams though.

I mean, nobody tunes in to watch Forest vs Crystal Palace or Bournemouth vs Wolves aside from fans of those clubs.

And it's also generally the bigger teams that end up with high scoring games. It's not often you find an Everton 4-4 Fulham or a Brentford 3-4 Luton firecracker.

On the one hand the Super League idea was ridiculous. But let's not kid ourselves, the PL only has a global audience because the top teams prop it up. They are the ones who attract the money.

If you get rid of the big teams, global audience in the English top flight (the remainder clubs) will die and we would be left with a league not too dissimilar to the Championship (or worse, as the money will dry up) - a competitive league lacking in top quality.

Edited May 6 by Bris Vegas

[DarkFruitsRam7]

9 hours ago, Alty_Ram said:

I know that we are back within one tier of the PL but I can't say that I have any great urgency to get back in there. I don't know how you become competitive without spending either a shedload of money (and spend it well) or have really good business model like one or two of the smaller teams that have managed to get established (but they are the exception to the rule).

Otherwise it just looks like a 38 game season where you have to get the better of your clashes against the half dozen relegation fodder clubs around you and otherwise just accept regular rogerings from the likes of Man City while while pundits describe your 5-0 home defeat as "pathetic", "hopeless", "spineless" or whatever, despite the fact that your squad cost less than De Bryne's boots. I've watched quite a lot of games this year and the Sheff Utd games have just been relentlessly depressing and yet I fully expect them to be right up there in the Championship next year. 

This last year it's been nice to watch Derby games with a decent expectation of victory home or away, but for a whole bunch of clubs, the PL seems to be about trying to get 40 points or a point a game and hoping that there are 3 teams worse than you and getting put to the sword in most of the others. At least to be fair to them, Forest have had a go in most games and haven't been battered too often. Obviously our last effort in the PL re-defined abysmal, but this year Sheff Utd have just been awful and must be a really hard watch for their fans. They have just broken the 100 goals conceded milestone with still 2 games to go and that puts even our record to shame. So we never held the most goals conceded in a single PL game and now we don't even have the most goas conceded in a 38 game season. They are on 16 points which is only slightly better than our record breaking awful season. If there hadn't been some other really poor teams to steal points off then they might even have beaten it.

This. I'm not one to moan about the Premier League too much, particularly as the title race has been genuinely exciting the last couple of years. But if you don't support a team with sufficient resources or a super-smart business model that allows you to compete in the top half, I can only think the experience is pretty much as you describe.

I always, always want Derby to do as well as we possibly can, and that includes wanting to see us play in the Premier League. If we were to get there, you wouldn't stop me dreaming of a European push one day, no matter how unlikely it seems.

But if we do go up from the Championship, it will be difficult to escape the thought that the following year will be a bit crap. Which is partly why the League One promotion was so joyful, because that thought didn't exist.

[Dimmu]

Definitely not. It's not even the most exciting league in England. I prefer the Championship.

[TigerTedd]

17 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

Definitely not. It's not even the most exciting league in England. I prefer the Championship.

A bit like AEW compared to WWE. The championship is ‘where footballers come to football’. 

I do wonder if there will be some sort of league / union split one day. 

it always reminds me of a time when I was a kid and I bought a premier league sticker album, and then went about 4 weeks pocket money, or about a fiver, on nothing but stickers for my album. And I got the football league stickers by mistake, not really knowing the difference. The football stickers, players etc. all seemed a lot more no nonsense, and a lot less razamataz with the football league stickers. 

at the time I liked the razamataz, I was young and foolish, but now, I just want to see Foyt all played in a compatible league where you’re never sure what might happen next. 
 

[TomTom92]

PL is just a very well marketed league in comparison to the rest of the worlds top leagues.

Pretty sure without fact checking that all the top leagues are dominated by the same few clubs. The PL is no different.

The sad part is, that due to inflation, the money and the amount it requires to take on a big team is so vast from the early 90's to now that only the mega rich can turn a team in to a force. Unfortunately FFP etc. has even stopped that now. Look at Newcastle, they're fighting at the right end, but they're a million miles away from winning the league in the next few years. 

Part of me thinks FFP should be scrapped and if a billionaire wants to buy the league then good for them. But i appreciate that no financial governance does lead itself for smaller clubs potentially going bust. 

Ultimately the PL is nowhere near the most entertaining league in England. Its very American but maybe the PL would thrive from having a league title and then a play off system to crown the overall season winner. Maybe even implement a relegation play off to drag more teams in to the jeopardy. However the latter suggestion won't ever happen whilst the money between the PL and the EFL is so vast. Close that gap and it will benefit all the teams in England bar the top 6. 

 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

42 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

PL is just a very well marketed league in comparison to the rest of the worlds top leagues.

Pretty sure without fact checking that all the top leagues are dominated by the same few clubs. The PL is no different.

The sad part is, that due to inflation, the money and the amount it requires to take on a big team is so vast from the early 90's to now that only the mega rich can turn a team in to a force. Unfortunately FFP etc. has even stopped that now. Look at Newcastle, they're fighting at the right end, but they're a million miles away from winning the league in the next few years. 

Part of me thinks FFP should be scrapped and if a billionaire wants to buy the league then good for them. But i appreciate that no financial governance does lead itself for smaller clubs potentially going bust. 

Ultimately the PL is nowhere near the most entertaining league in England. Its very American but maybe the PL would thrive from having a league title and then a play off system to crown the overall season winner. Maybe even implement a relegation play off to drag more teams in to the jeopardy. However the latter suggestion won't ever happen whilst the money between the PL and the EFL is so vast. Close that gap and it will benefit all the teams in England bar the top 6. 

 

 

I was with you until your last paragraph.

I'd rather reinvigorate the cup competitions than invent the NBA play offs (the NBA invented a cup this last season) and absolutely no to relegation play offs, they'll just end with teams who proved they should go down over a whole season having a get out of jail card.

I do agree with scrapping FFP as it currently exists. My thoughts are along the lines of controlling a clubs debt, as it's debts rather than spending that gets clubs in trouble.

[TomTom92]

2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I was with you until your last paragraph.

I'd rather reinvigorate the cup competitions than invent the NBA play offs (the NBA invented a cup this last season) and absolutely no to relegation play offs, they'll just end with teams who proved they should go down over a whole season having a get out of jail card.

I do agree with scrapping FFP as it currently exists. My thoughts are along the lines of controlling a clubs debt, as it's debts rather than spending that gets clubs in trouble.

I can survive without the play offs idea, was just a spur of the moment thought to keep most teams interested and something to play for until the very end. 

FWIW i'd have the bottom two automatically relegated and then 15th - 18th battling it out for the final drop. But ultimately i don't think the PL would ever trial something like this.

I'd be intrigued to see how we would reinvigorate the cup competitions. It may be a generational thing but i hold very little feelings towards the cup comps.

[Highgate]

4 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

I can survive without the play offs idea, was just a spur of the moment thought to keep most teams interested and something to play for until the very end. 

FWIW i'd have the bottom two automatically relegated and then 15th - 18th battling it out for the final drop. But ultimately i don't think the PL would ever trial something like this.

I'd be intrigued to see how we would reinvigorate the cup competitions. It may be a generational thing but i hold very little feelings towards the cup comps.

I think that's an excellent idea.... with European qualification and the relegation play-offs then every club would have something to play for towards the end of the season.  As you say, PL clubs would probably be against it though. 

[Bris Vegas]

Not sure how relegation playoffs could ever work. The two losers of semi-finals face off in a one off game at Wembley? That would be rewarding failure.

Not sure of any competition in the world where losers advance to a next stage (aside from WC 3rd/4th game). 

[TomTom92]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

Not sure how relegation playoffs could ever work. The two losers of semi-finals face off in a one off game at Wembley? That would be rewarding failure.

Not sure of any competition in the world where losers advance to a next stage (aside from WC 3rd/4th game). 

No need for Wembley, just whichever team finished higher in the regular season gets home advantage.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Given how 3rd in the championship having to go in the play offs is sometimes unjust, how the flip is giving 18th place a get out of jail chance v 15th place just?

I dislike the relegation play off in scotland where the team in the high division plays the winner of the play off in the division below, be crap all season and demonstrait you're not worth staying in the division, then get a one match let off.

You want a better idea? relegate 4 teams, that'll keep the lower half on their toes and make the championship more exxciting*

*well, it probably wouldn't I just vampirically suck relegation engery into my soul to feed my evil.

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

No need for Wembley, just whichever team finished higher in the regular season gets home advantage.

If it’s a one-off game between two teams with home advantage to the higher team that could work.

Could also give teams between 13th - 17th a reason to not just head to the beach in April if they have a 15 point gap over the relegation zone.

Teams like Wolves and Fulham this season are already on the beach.

[Turk Thrust]

On 06/05/2024 at 12:30, G STAR RAM said:

Dishwater.

I always knew it as Ditchwater so checked various online dictionaries including the OED,  which says

“Idioms. (as) dull as dishwater (US English) (British English (as) dull as ditchwater) “. Thought so

[Bobby]

The worst crimes with PL teams are the ones who are safely mid-table, not going to qualify for Europe and not going to go down, why do the put weakened teams out in the cups? It’s their best chance of silverware and a day out at Wembley for the fans but they sack it off in case it means they finish 14th instead of 12th. 🤷‍♂️

[roboto]

The money difference per league position in the EPL is probably greater than the sum of an FA Cup or League Cup win.

Plus, as you can see with team like Brighton and similar, a season in Europe can affect your league position if you don’t have the squad depth to cope with the fixture congestion and then you go back towards the lower end of the table.