Paul Warne

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

According to the interview, every club has lots of data available  - hence we're currently fighting with multiple other teams for the same players.  We're creating new systems to uncover players that are undervalued, maybe being played in the wrong system, whatever - can't remember I'd have to listen to the interview again.  I do recall Babat saying it wouldn't start to net results until next season however (not even the Jan transfer window).  Don't shoot the messenger.

👍 

[Barney1991]

4 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

Considering where we’re at in our rebuild, any manager would be struggling with managing skint Derby this season.

We haven’t done what Ipswich and now Birmingham are doing, spending big money in League One on young players to avoid FFP and have a Champioship ready squad made when you do get promoted. Ipswich spent 10 million in 2 years and Brum are breaking records for money spent in League One.

We couldn’t do that because of restrictions and, all things considered, did well to get promoted within two seasons of a full reset but you can see the impact it’s had now.

Considering how wretched the squad supposedly is, I think we’ve started the season fairly well. Blackburn was a wake up call, while Boro and Watford were both gutsy performances that were a big improvement. An EFL Cup Tie on a Tuesday night in Barrow is it’s own beast and people overreact to losing to a lower league side every time, even though it constantly happens every season to plenty of different teams. When you win it’s the magic of the cup and when you lose it’s an unmitigated failure. I don’t read too much into either.

I’m confident we’ll keep improving and I don’t believe Warne is setting them up to sit back every game. Yates just said in his interview that the lads ‘needed to be braver’ in the game against Watford and that’s where the current problem lies.

This squad needs to gel (midfield is entirely new and the attack may as well be) and I’m confident they will grow into the season. They are adapting to a new league and standard, there are lots of games to go and Warne is their man - they will improve, just as he has steadily improved us throughout his tenure. I think he’s a manager that regardless of what you think of his style of play, gets big results and gets the most out of his players.

Anyone Warne Out was wrong all last season and will never come to terms with a manager with his style of play.

I sympathise with them, I’ve been there myself. It’s never nice to want a managerial change that’s not coming but I hope you all at least enjoy moaning when we lose and moaning when we win.

Be honest what player do you feel warne has got hold of and improved. I’d say Mendez has improved and defensively we look sound but individually I struggle to ascertain an improvement 

 I watched Bristol city the other day and can already see what an improvement they’ve made of bird and knight in a free flowing attack minds team 

[Barney1991]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Allot of that wage bill though was taken up by players who were signed by Rosenior and others whose wages were set in the Mel Morris era. How much of it is taken up by Warne's signings?

Plymouth also built their squad over at least 3 seasons including a successful promotion campaign, with no EFL-imposed restrictions. I doubt anyone would argue that our £17m represented all-round VFM?

They also got in very decent loans the season they went up I think 5 while we got springett and the lad from Tottenham. 

[Ghost of Clough]

58 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Springett and White were signed because we could literally get no one else at the time.  We were going along reasonably well in PWs first season, flirting with the top 6 until the teams around us strengthened during the January window.  Our post-administration restrictions handcuffed us and we inevitably ran out of steam.

As for the rest of our 'misses', I can only assume we signed the best players we could given the financial restrictions of being a recently out of administration Lg1 team.  They did their job however and got us promoted.

As for our hits and the players PW improved that he inherited... *tumbleweed*

I highlighted the academy along with the recruitment dept as areas of the club that were gutted during administration and/or are going under going strengthening - these things take time that some people are unwilling to give.  You don't create a SIU and expect instantly results.

According to the interview, every club has lots of data available  - hence we're currently fighting with multiple other teams for the same players.  We're creating new systems to uncover players that are undervalued, maybe being played in the wrong system, whatever - can't remember I'd have to listen to the interview again.  I do recall Babat saying it wouldn't start to net results until next season however (not even the Jan transfer window).  Don't shoot the messenger.

We're 2 years out of administration, we've spent that entire time trying to rebuild a club and a squad on a budget.  We were wage capped to begin with in Lg1, now and how we're competing with teams that can offer considerably more in terms of transfer fees and wages.  I personally think the trajectory of the club is going just fine.  Assuming we retain our Championship status next season, I would hope to see a better standard of signing next summer followed by an improved league position. 

I am more than happy with the success PW has bought us, especially given the conditions he's been working under and am very happy with the approach the club is taking to improve year on year.  Yes I would like to see better football at times and yes I would like to see additional investment come into the club, in the meantime however, slow and steady progress rather than boom and very nearly bust is a pleasant change.

Both a waste of money, which could have gone towards developing our own players instead. We signed White, only for Thompson to go out on loan. Even someone like Aghatise could have had the same impact as Springett's 200 minutes on the pitch. 

Out of our 12 most used players last season, only 2 were signed by Warne (Nelson and Wilson). If that doesn't show how poor our recruitment had been under Warne, then I don't know what will.

We're fighting with other clubs for the same players, because we've limited ourselves to a very narrow market.

'Wage capped' in L1, but still spent more on wages than all hit 1 club - £2m behind Ipswich, and £1.5m ahead of Sheff Weds- both paid out promotion bonuses. Teams getting promoted with half our wage budget just adds to how bad our recruitment has been compared with other clubs.

[maxjam]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Both a waste of money, which could have gone towards developing our own players instead. We signed White, only for Thompson to go out on loan. Even someone like Aghatise could have had the same impact as Springett's 200 minutes on the pitch. 

Out of our 12 most used players last season, only 2 were signed by Warne (Nelson and Wilson). If that doesn't show how poor our recruitment had been under Warne, then I don't know what will.

We're fighting with other clubs for the same players, because we've limited ourselves to a very narrow market.

'Wage capped' in L1, but still spent more on wages than all hit 1 club - £2m behind Ipswich, and £1.5m ahead of Sheff Weds- both paid out promotion bonuses. Teams getting promoted with half our wage budget just adds to how bad our recruitment has been compared with other clubs.

Do you think that we want to be signing older more injury prone players or do you think they were the only ones we could realistically sign given our transfer and wage budget?

Do you think that we have intentionally limited ourselves to a very narrow market, or do you think that financially its the only market we can shop in?

Ipswich spent a small fortune on young players and built for a couple of seasons.  We spent £350k on CBT and that wasn't even due until the end of season 2. 

There are valid counter arguments to all of your points but its really not worth it.  You don't like PW, I get it. 

[Ghost of Clough]

14 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Do you think that we want to be signing older more injury prone players or do you think they were the only ones we could realistically sign given our transfer and wage budget?

Do you think that we have intentionally limited ourselves to a very narrow market, or do you think that financially its the only market we can shop in?

Ipswich spent a small fortune on young players and built for a couple of seasons.  We spent £350k on CBT and that wasn't even due until the end of season 2. 

There are valid counter arguments to all of your points but its really not worth it.  You don't like PW, I get it. 

1. I think Warne chose those older players on higher wages as a 'sure bet' of going up, rather than opting for younger players 

2. I think it's a decision mlby the management team to shop in the domestic loan market as a less risky option than taking a punt on more than just 2 foreign players.

3. Ipswich doesn't really have much to do with this discussion. I only mentioned them as they were the only side to spend more on wages than us during our 2 seasons in L1. The comparison is with all of the clubs below us who spent there money more wisely.

[maxjam]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

1. I think Warne chose those older players on higher wages as a 'sure bet' of going up, rather than opting for younger players 

2. I think it's a decision mlby the management team to shop in the domestic loan market as a less risky option than taking a punt on more than just 2 foreign players.

3. Ipswich doesn't really have much to do with this discussion. I only mentioned them as they were the only side to spend more on wages than us during our 2 seasons in L1. The comparison is with all of the clubs below us who spent there money more wisely.

1.   So you're assuming to know what PW thought and DC had no input.  Weren't McGoldrick, Chester, Collins, Smith, Hourihane, NML, Barkuizen all here before PW arrived?

2.  Again, another assumption.  Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong.  We do however know that a SIU has been implemented for future transfers.

3.  Comparing us to virtually every other club of similar stature doesn't have much to do with the discussion.  How many started from a financially hamstrung position of 5 players and a gutted academy 2 weeks before the season started?

I get that you don't like PW, thats your prerogative.  I personally chose to believe the club has a plan to build in a slow but steady manner.  Unless DC generates some investment, I don't really see another way.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Out of our 12 most used players last season, only 2 were signed by Warne (Nelson and Wilson). If that doesn't show how poor our recruitment had been under Warne, then I don't know what will.

Bradley is in the top 12 including subs appearances and Nyambe and Ward might well have been had they not had serious injuries.

[Ghost of Clough]

14 minutes ago, maxjam said:

1.   So you're assuming to know what PW thought and DC had no input.  Weren't McGoldrick, Chester, Collins, Smith, Hourihane, NML, Barkuizen all here before PW arrived?

2.  Again, another assumption.  Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong.  We do however know that a SIU has been implemented for future transfers.

3.  Comparing us to virtually every other club of similar stature doesn't have much to do with the discussion.  How many started from a financially hamstrung position of 5 players and a gutted academy 2 weeks before the season started?

I get that you don't like PW, thats your prerogative.  I personally chose to believe the club has a plan to build in a slow but steady manner.  Unless DC generates some investment, I don't really see another way.

You asked me what I think. I told you. Now you're saying I shouldn't have those opinions because I've made an assumption.

 

13 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Bradley is in the top 12 including subs appearances and Nyambe and Ward might well have been had they not had serious injuries.

Minutes on the pitch

[maxjam]

39 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

You asked me what I think. I told you. Now you're saying I shouldn't have those opinions because I've made an assumption.

You're entitled to your opinions I just highlighted how I thought they were flawed. 

Your argument is seemingly based around assuming to know what PW and others are thinking, playing down the ramifications of administration and the fact the majority of the older players were signed before PW even arrived.

But I have no desire to continue arguing so heres to a somewhat successful deadline day 👍

[TomG]

Paul Warne has said that Derby are 'not Championship ready'.  Well, does anyone think that we will be Championship ready come 11pm tomorrow night?  Personally, I have my doubts!

[Carl Sagan]

24 minutes ago, TomG said:

Paul Warne has said that Derby are 'not Championship ready'.  Well, does anyone think that we will be Championship ready come 11pm tomorrow night?  Personally, I have my doubts!

It's Warne's job for us to be Championship-ready. The buck stops with him. If he believes he's failed in his job, I'm happy for him to walk. 

However, so far I'd say we've been competitive in every league game, albeit sometimes looking to be hanging on. But having Cashin back will make a big difference to our defence, and Yates available for selection should enhance the forward line. But our manager is extremely conservative in his picks, so we're not likely to change/improve much with him at the helm. And I don't think anything much will have changed by 11pm tomorrow night. 

What we've seen already is what we'll get most of the time. Whoever (if anyone) comes in, we will defend deep and surrender possession, hoping for a chance on the break or from a set-piece. 

It feels like a long season ahead. 

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

You asked me what I think. I told you. Now you're saying I shouldn't have those opinions because I've made an assumption.

 

Minutes on the pitch

Bradley 13th with 12 minutes less than Barkhuizen. Try telling me Nyambe and Adams weren't good signings.

I make no claim that the recruitment was a roaring success, but it was better than your rather simplistic benchmark suggests. He also got a very useful second-wind out of Korey Smith when many on here were screaming "get rid". 

[Andicis]

Something that gives me a little concern around Warne is just how little I think players are genuinely improving. Can anyone point to three players that have clearly improved under Warne's management? There just doesn't seem to be a huge amount of growth and I just feel like we are not getting everything out of what we have. I acknowledge we're in a tough spot with transfers, so that's exactly why we need to maximise output with tools available. 

Edited August 29 by Andicis

[Srg]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Something that gives me a little concern around Warne is just how little I think players are genuinely improving. Can anyone point to three players that have clearly improved under Warne's management? There just doesn't seem to be a huge amount of growth and I just feel like we are not getting everything out of what we have. I acknowledge we're in a tough spot with transfers, so that's exactly what we need to maximise output with tools available. 

Wilson, Mendez-Laing and, arguably, Max Bird. Admittedly, it’s damn hard when so many of your signings are old. They’re not exactly going to “improve”. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Srg said:

Wilson, Mendez-Laing and, arguably, Max Bird. Admittedly, it’s damn hard when so many of your signings are old. They’re not exactly going to “improve”. 

Yeah, don't disagree on the older signings. Just feels like we're in a perpetual cycle of plugging holes with journeymen on the way down and that we've got a void of players improving for us to either sell on or benefit from. 

[Ambitious]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Something that gives me a little concern around Warne is just how little I think players are genuinely improving. Can anyone point to three players that have clearly improved under Warne's management? There just doesn't seem to be a huge amount of growth and I just feel like we are not getting everything out of what we have. I acknowledge we're in a tough spot with transfers, so that's exactly what we need to maximise output with tools available. 

I'll give it a go - 

Marek Rodak
Semi Ajayi
Richard Wood
Michael Ihiekwe
Will Vaulks
Michael Smith
Kiefffer Moore
Ben Wiles
Ryan Manning
Daniel Iversen
Daniel Barlaser
Matt Crooks
Chiedozie Ogbene
Freddie Ladapo
Viktor Johansson
Wes Harding
Ryan Giles
Lewis Wing
Joe Wildsmith
Craig Forsyth
Eiran Cashin
Max Bird
David McGoldrick
Nathaniel Mendez-Laing
Kane Wilson
Ryan Nyambe
Curtis Nelson
Ebou Adams

[Srg]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Yeah, don't disagree on the older signings. Just feels like we're in a perpetual cycle of plugging holes with journeymen on the way down and that we've got a void of players improving for us to either sell on or benefit from. 

It’s just so difficult to know where to lay the “blame” for that.

I’ve made a few posts lamenting only signing 1 permanent outfield player below 28 this summer. I was expecting an influx of younger players who were still of a starting XI age this summer and it just really hasn’t happened. 

As you say, we’ll be perpetually turning over the squad and struggling to find any value as a selling club doing that.

Do we think the academy is that close to producing? Does Warne truly hate younger players that much? Or is the budget wrongly labelled as competitive? I’d say it’s probably closer to the latter with a smattering of mistrust of true youngsters when it’s a pressured environment - but it’s hard to say that completely when we aren’t seeing even 25/26 year olds coming either.  

Edited August 29 by Srg

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Srg said:

It’s just so difficult to know where to lay the “blame” for that.

I’ve made a few posts lamenting only signing 1 permanent outfield player below 28 this summer. I was expecting an influx of younger players who were still of a starting XI age this summer and it just really hasn’t happened. 

As you say, we’ll be perpetually turning over the squad and struggling to find any value as a selling club doing that.

Do we think the academy is that close to producing? Does Warne truly hate younger players that much? Or is the budget wrongly labelled as competitive? I’d say it’s probably closer to the latter with a smattering of mistrust of true youngsters when it’s a pressured environment - but it’s hard to say that completely when we aren’t seeing even 25/26 year olds coming either.  

Yeah, it's a symptom of a poorly run club or perhaps remnants of a previously poorly run club. Difficult to point and blame Warne on it, but I suppose it's more of an overall frustration/concern with the club as a whole.

I don't think Warne hates youngsters, but I do wonder how much trust he is truly willing to place in them. I have no idea if Dajaune Brown is "ready" but I would have liked to see Warne give him a proper go as a player with genuine prospects and potential to improve. 

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I'll give it a go - 

Marek Rodak
Semi Ajayi
Richard Wood
Michael Ihiekwe
Will Vaulks
Michael Smith
Kiefffer Moore
Ben Wiles
Ryan Manning
Daniel Iversen
Daniel Barlaser
Matt Crooks
Chiedozie Ogbene
Freddie Ladapo
Viktor Johansson
Wes Harding
Ryan Giles
Lewis Wing
Joe Wildsmith
Craig Forsyth
Eiran Cashin
Max Bird
David McGoldrick
Nathaniel Mendez-Laing
Kane Wilson
Ryan Nyambe
Curtis Nelson
Ebou Adams

Good effort - mostly meant at Derby but I have no reason to doubt any of the ones for other clubs. 

Would dispute a few highlighted for Derby mind, I'm not sure Fozzy has massively improved under Warne, he's been at a fairly consistently good level for quite a lot of years now, I'd say probably more of the same for him. 

Nelson is a difficult one to say he's improved, I'd certainly say Warne has gotten the most out of him but whether he has truly improved is less clear. 

Cashin is one I also wonder about. Obviously he was very strong the year we got relegated, but I have been a bit concerned that he has stagnated the last few years. He's still a good player, but I felt he was going to go pretty far and now it seems like he's just going to be a decent Championship player.