No midfield control again…

[Jram]

43 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

I was replying to a comment which was as good as saying that Warne is fantastic and does nothing wrong, and that he is all we need.

I do rate Warne tbf. Nice bloke, seems to have put together a squad with decent quality for this level and good character. He could use the academy more for me but that’s most managers really 

Mind you, I would be a fan of any manager who’d put in this position. We’re fourth. We will lose games and we will play badly before now and May. So will Man City. So will Bolton.

 

[robglosta]

21 hours ago, Grumpy Git said:

Did anyone notice Bird receive a pass in the last 5 minutes, only to give it straight back to the same player like it was a live hand-grenade?

That’s the bravery we’ve been crying out for and Warne has been talking about. Why not drive forward and create chaos in their box or shoot? The issue is it needs to be brave early on to take the game by the scruff of the next and show initiative. I’ve lost count of the amount of passive first halves we’ve had where we just don’t do the brave, aggressive and more risky work to set the tone with lots of game time left (E.g not after 70 when we’ve conceded). 

[Van der MoodHoover]

11 hours ago, MadAmster said:

When, apart from his prolonged stint at left back, has Sibley had a long run in a single position? I agree with everybody who says he hasn't developed as we thought. however, we should also look at why and, IMO, Sibs isn't the problem. For him to push on I believe he needs to move and get a club with a manager who will play him in just the one role over a run of games. 

He did look lost when he came on. Didn't seem to know where he was supposed to be standing.

Where's the team pressing gone, when we hunted in packs? We currently seem to be a collection of individuals trying things in ones......

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, robglosta said:

That’s the bravery we’ve been crying out for and Warne has been talking about. Why not drive forward and create chaos in their box or shoot? The issue is it needs to be brave early on to take the game by the scruff of the next and show initiative. I’ve lost count of the amount of passive first halves we’ve had where we just don’t do the brave, aggressive and more risky work to set the tone with lots of game time left (E.g not after 70 when we’ve conceded). 

 Because Paul Warne has instructed him to only have two touches of the ball. So after one touch to control it, he’s only got one touch left, either hoof it out to the wing or pass it back again. 🙄

Warne’s insistence on his one and only way of playing is under-using. NO: WASTING the players he has got, and is turning them into poor players.

[Duracell]

Does anyone have any midfield control at this level? I feel like I’ve not watched enough other teams to answer that question.

I get little satisfaction from watching this team play and if we go up and want to stay up, we’re going to need to change a lot about the way we play.

But the fact we’re in contention to go up automatically speaks volumes about both the quality and style of play at this level. 

Most goals seem to come from turnovers in possession from unforced errors. Patterns of play are much less structured and it’s rarer to see teams put lots of passes together. I’m not old enough to have seen us play in the third tier and I’ve had a hard time recalibrating what “good” looks like.

 

[i-Ram]

15 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I did make it up, its probably closer to 95%.

There were numerous times last night when simple passes were put straight out of play, nothing to do with fast forward play, just a lack of care with the ball, thats not on the manager.

Which of our players are not capable of playing fast football in your opinion?

Sorry, only just got round to seeing this. I don’t think many of our players are suited to playing Warne’s style of football in truth. Bird is technically our best footballer and could play fast football with those on the same wavelength. After that I am struggling.  CBT and NML are match winners in this league, and benefit from fast delivery but both are hit and miss in terms of performance, and in front of goal, and you certainly can’t rely on them to retain the ball. Collins and Sibley neither. If you bypass midfield to get it forward quickly to those 4 more often than not it will be coming back just as quick. 

[europia]

On 23/01/2024 at 23:09, jimtastic56 said:

We have a week left in the window . I hope Warne sees what we all see - a massive hole in midfield . 

Actually I don't think that's likely. Unless there is one or two departures I don't see any significant incomings. The owner clearly isn't going to let the budget get out of control. I totally agree with that stance, considering the clubs financial position. 

[BaaLocks]

12 hours ago, Jram said:

We’ve lost two games in three months and we’re three points off top though? We’ve just paid a transfer fee for the first time in three years. I think any criticism of Warne is just deeply unfair. I happen to agree Hourihane is a liability off the ball but he does create a lot of chances, particularly from set pieces, so I’m willing to accept Warne has decided to take that pay off. 

• We've taken one point in two games against two teams that have managed a combined 7 points out of 24 before they played us
• We've failed to score in three of our last four games, we didn't even manage a shot on goal in our last match
• We've lost leading positions in two of the last nine games, ones where we had points on the board until the 94th and 98th minute

As for Hourihane creating chances, besides jumping on one late one against Burton he is a complete liability. Not since Gary Teale have I seen a Derby player so unable to justify his position in a starting line up. Not sure what pay off that means Warne has agreed to, but it isn't one I feel comfortable accepting without comment.

[Dcfcsr92]

3 hours ago, Duracell said:

Does anyone have any midfield control at this level? I feel like I’ve not watched enough other teams to answer that question.

I get little satisfaction from watching this team play and if we go up and want to stay up, we’re going to need to change a lot about the way we play.

But the fact we’re in contention to go up automatically speaks volumes about both the quality and style of play at this level. 

Most goals seem to come from turnovers in possession from unforced errors. Patterns of play are much less structured and it’s rarer to see teams put lots of passes together. I’m not old enough to have seen us play in the third tier and I’ve had a hard time recalibrating what “good” looks like.

 

Alot of teams when they come to derby as they know its our week point, if i was a manager i play through our heart as our midfield dont do enough!  Every team are looking to do it recently

[McMuffin]

[Jram]

9 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

• We've taken one point in two games against two teams that have managed a combined 7 points out of 24 before they played us
• We've failed to score in three of our last four games, we didn't even manage a shot on goal in our last match
• We've lost leading positions in two of the last nine games, ones where we had points on the board until the 94th and 98th minute

As for Hourihane creating chances, besides jumping on one late one against Burton he is a complete liability. Not since Gary Teale have I seen a Derby player so unable to justify his position in a starting line up. Not sure what pay off that means Warne has agreed to, but it isn't one I feel comfortable accepting without comment.

I’m going to be honest- the statistics you’ve used there are absolute nonsense. You could probably take any team in the world and pluck specific statistics like that which paint the team in a positive or negative light.  It’s silly

In spite of that, there has been a drop in form in the last few games but that’s fine 🤷‍♂️ there’s no need to overreact, it’s football. We were inevitably going to have bad periods in the season, like every team. Like Warne repeatedly says, football is random, sometimes things go for you, sometimes they don’t. 
 

I happen to agree about Hourihane, I probably wouldn’t have him in the team. But I think it’s fair to say 5 goals and 6 assists in the league is a good return for a deep lying midfield player. Warne has said a few times that he wants to win every game so presumably he’s willing to take the risk of Hourihane being a defensive weakness 

[i-Ram]

3 minutes ago, Jram said:

I happen to agree about Hourihane, I probably wouldn’t have him in the team. But I think it’s fair to say 5 goals and 6 assists in the league is a good return for a deep lying midfield player. Warne has said a few times that he wants to win every game so presumably he’s willing to take the risk of Hourihane being a defensive weakness 

Warne was also willing to take the risk of him being named captain. 

Edited January 25 by i-Ram

[TomTom92]

Hourihane is an enigma. 

IMO he was underwhelming last season but he got in the team of the year and his goals/assists tally was healthy for a centre mid. I'm also a big fan of players having a strong attacking threat to their game, so he ticks that box. 

Ultimately I think we need to bring another midfielder in. To either play in a 3 with Bird and CH or at the very least support one of them if PW insists on playing a 2. 

But it does seem according to PW comments that this won't be addressed until the summer. So let the chaos continue. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Hourihane is an enigma. 

IMO he was underwhelming last season but he got in the team of the year and his goals/assists tally was healthy for a centre mid. I'm also a big fan of players having a strong attacking threat to their game, so he ticks that box. 

Ultimately I think we need to bring another midfielder in. To either play in a 3 with Bird and CH or at the very least support one of them if PW insists on playing a 2. 

But it does seem according to PW comments that this won't be addressed until the summer. So let the chaos continue. 

Wrapped in a riddle?

Why did the players choose him as Captain? Why did Warne go along with it? What aren't we seeing.

[TomTom92]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Wrapped in a riddle?

Why did the players choose him as Captain? Why did Warne go along with it? What aren't we seeing.

Clearly must be a strong character in the dressing room. 

I do feel like if he's on big wages that he might be hard to move on and if he gets dropped then that could mess with the dynamic so PW has my sympathies in that regard. 

I think he can do a job for us, but just not in a 2 with a midfielder whose tidy but doesn't offer more than 6/10 most weeks.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, TomTom92 said:

Clearly must be a strong character in the dressing room. 

I do feel like if he's on big wages that he might be hard to move on and if he gets dropped then that could mess with the dynamic so PW has my sympathies in that regard. 

I think he can do a job for us, but just not in a 2 with a midfielder whose tidy but doesn't offer more than 6/10 most weeks.

Bigger than Bradley. More in total than Washy, TJJ and Bird - just random players. The point being why risk the success of the Club for one players wages?

This reminds me of Cocu and Rooney, fans said it was because he had to play him, Cocu said it was because he was a good player.

[Caerphilly Ram]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Wrapped in a riddle?

Why did the players choose him as Captain? Why did Warne go along with it? What aren't we seeing.

They are more informed than we are in that sense. They work with Hourihane every day, they know what he does and says in training, they’ll know more about how he interacts with them and the management etc.

So from the outside looking in people have questions, based on their observations in games and the like, but his colleagues have more contact with him, more knowledge of his leadership style and approach, and so made their decision (I assume) based on that.

He is an experienced player, who has played in the top flight and at international level so will bring some of that to the table also I suppose. 

Not sure I agree with it, but also….who else is there? Nelson has been a rock but doesn’t seem too much of a talker either. Bird and/or Cashin maybe? Collins temperament is maybe not right from what we see on match days. Bradley seemingly flatters to deceive. 

[Dcfcsr92]

4 hours ago, McMuffin said:

Cant say that about max bird hes the best thing since sliced bread! Thats going to have people turning in there graves 🤣 

[TomTom92]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Bigger than Bradley. More in total than Washy, TJJ and Bird - just random players. The point being why risk the success of the Club for one players wages?

This reminds me of Cocu and Rooney, fans said it was because he had to play him, Cocu said it was because he was a good player.

At the time of signing he was seen as a coup and maybe he wouldn't look as awkward in LR slow possession game.

Harsh to compare him to Rooney as he came back like Billy Bunter post lockdown. But agree its similar in the sense that maybe his status stops him being dropped. Especially when we don't have a natural replacement within in the squad.

[TomTom92]

9 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

They are more informed than we are in that sense. They work with Hourihane every day, they know what he does and says in training, they’ll know more about how he interacts with them and the management etc.

So from the outside looking in people have questions, based on their observations in games and the like, but his colleagues have more contact with him, more knowledge of his leadership style and approach, and so made their decision (I assume) based on that.

He is an experienced player, who has played in the top flight and at international level so will bring some of that to the table also I suppose. 

Not sure I agree with it, but also….who else is there? Nelson has been a rock but doesn’t seem too much of a talker either. Bird and/or Cashin maybe? Collins temperament is maybe not right from what we see on match days. Bradley seemingly flatters to deceive. 

I still think Bradley was brought in to captain, then PW clearly saw enough in pre season to think that maybe that wasn't the greatest of ideas so chickened out and let the players decide.

Admittedly there isn't an abundance of leaders; maybe Fozzy could've done the job?