No midfield control again…

[OoooMarkWright]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This makes me laugh. He's a fullback, Sky have just shown two of Readings attacks, one the goal. Both times Elder was nowhere in defence. There were other times too. But because he went forward a bit and made a pass or two he was MoM? 😄

It's who Warne plays and where. 

Did you watch the game? Easily our best player. Only a 7/10 but decent. Best of a bad bunch

Edited January 23 by enachops

[Jourdan]

Just now, McMuffin said:

Probably just highlights just how bad the rest of the team was! 

Indeed.

Elder had some nice moments - good blocks, good link up and overlapping runs - but couldn’t live with Azeez and their other players’ pace and movement.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, enachops said:

Did you watch the game? Easily our best player. Only a 7/10 but decent. Best if a bad bunch

Did you watch his defending for the goal? He looked a bit lively going forward, is that what you mean?

Edit: and I'm sure it doesn't help Cashin in his defensive duties either.

Edited January 23 by RoyMac5

[Caerphilly Ram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Did you watch his defending for the goal? He looked a bit lively going forward, is that what you mean?

Other than the lead up to the goal he made a number of key defensive tackles, blocks, clearances in both halves. So while he could have done better for the shot that led to the goal he contributed in keeping the score lower than arguably the team performance deserved and played a part in the rare moments we had going forward. 

[OoooMarkWright]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Did you watch his defending for the goal? He looked a bit lively going forward, is that what you mean?

Yeah he was massively exposed. 2v1, they had acres on that side. Not his fault though. He could’ve closed down a bit quicker, but the issue was how easy it was to switch the play and how much space they had with an overload to go with it. Derbys shape was shocking for that goal.

[Van der MoodHoover]

21 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Did anyone notice Bird receive a pass in the last 5 minutes, only to give it straight back to the same player like it was a live hand-grenade?

Yes. Did it a couple of times I thought.

Very poor, looking too slow to move ball on.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Other than the lead up to the goal he made a number of key defensive tackles, blocks, clearances in both halves. So while he could have done better for the shot that led to the goal he contributed in keeping the score lower than arguably the team performance deserved and played a part in the rare moments we had going forward. 

Oh their other good chance that Sky showed was highlighting him as well. But they had lots more chances than us so he had opportunities to defend. 👍

Edited January 23 by RoyMac5

[HorsforthRam]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Wad this something to do with Warne not wanting more than two touches in midfield? I didn't hear this but I've seen it quoted.

@HorsforthRam"A bottom 6 type of performance tonight. I, along with others call for more play through our midfield. At the same time our midfield is slated. As Warne said in his interview tonight, he didn’t want players to take more than two touches in midfield. So the ball either goes back or fired down the channel. I blame Warne and his coaching staff for not training patterns of play that utilise the midfield (I think he said it was complicated in one of his earlier interviews). He’s made the likes of Bird, a talented player look v ordinary at times "

Yes, in his interview after the game with Radio Derby. Paraphrase… Reading had more players in midfield so he didn’t want our midfield to have more than two touches in case they got swamped type of thing..

[OoooMarkWright]

I’ve defender Bird in the past, but my patience has gone. He should be dominating at this level. Instead he’s chasing shadows. Doesn’t contribute enough offensively or defensively. Powder puff. Can’t tackle. Poor. He’ll go in the summer. A lower champ team will take him. He needs to play in a 3 though. Him and Hourihane are getting done every time as a 2.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

Yes, in his interview after the game with Radio Derby. Paraphrase… Reading had more players in midfield so he didn’t want our midfield to have more than two touches in case they got swamped type of thing..

I can't see why people want us to sign more midfield players, nor see why they are surprised when the midfield look at sixes and sevens. 

Edited January 23 by RoyMac5

[OoooMarkWright]

1 minute ago, HorsforthRam said:

Yes, in his interview after the game with Radio Derby. Paraphrase… Reading had more players in midfield so he didn’t want our midfield to have more than two touches in case they got swamped type of thing..

Why didn’t we play  a 3 then? Thompson as a ‘10’ is bizarre. He doesn’t have the guile, touch or attacking prowess for an attacking role. He’s a hustler. That should have been utilised deeper to gain control of the midfield. 

[Jourdan]

11 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Hourihane did it in spades for Plymouth, then Barnsley and Villa at a higher level so that doesn't really add up. He didn't play as a water carrier for those sides though and I doubt he expected to when he came here.

Hourihane was excellent for Barnsley and everything went through him but this was seven years ago, even further back if you are thinking about his standout years in League 1.

He was in his mid-20s when he left. You are a completely different player physically at that age compared when you are approaching your mid-30s.

At Villa, he was part of a really high quality midfield playing in a three with McGinn who  plays with aggression and covers a lot of ground and Grealish who can draw defenders and create space for a player like Hourihane to operate in.

I just don’t think he can do what he did before with the same frequency in this current set up.

[McMuffin]

Just now, enachops said:

I’ve defender Bird in the past, but my patience has gone. He should be dominating at this level. Instead he’s chasing shadows. Doesn’t contribute enough offensively or defensively. Powder puff. Can’t tackle. Poor. He’ll go in the summer. A lower champ team will take him. He needs to play in a 3 though. Him and Hourihane are getting done every time as a 2.

Midfielders that need to play in a 3 is usually because they have a deficiency and need someone to cover them up. But I agree to an extent!

dominating is a bit of an ask though I’d be happy if he just competed a bit and not play like a complete Fanny every week!

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Just now, Jourdan said:

Hourihane was excellent for Barnsley and everything went through him but this was seven years ago, even further back if you are thinking about his standout years in League 1.

He was in his mid-20s when he left. You are a completely different player physically at that age compared when you are approaching your mid-30s.

At Villa, he was part of a really high quality midfield playing in a three with McGinn who  plays with aggression and covers a lot of ground and Grealish who can draw defenders and create space for a player like Hourihane to operate in.

I just don’t think he can do what he did before with the same frequency in this current set up.

He doesn't have too though, he's playing Fleetwood most weeks. He's only 32 your adding 18 months on him. Get legs around him, play through midfield and keep him predominantly within 25 yards of the opposition goal.  This will inevitably create space out wide as teams sitting in will be we'll aware if he has two shots, he's probably scoring one and will come out.  

[Grumpy Git]

Good job we've got a separate sub-forum for 'football', because I haven't seen much from Derby this season.

[Jourdan]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I can't see why people want us to sign more midfield players, nor see why they are surprised when the midfield look at sixes and sevens. 

We can compete on a technical level, but not on a physical level.

With Bird and Hourihane, they are a dream for an opposing midfield that is athletic and can cover ground, press, crowd the ball, force mistakes, win aerial battles and win second balls.

I don’t think Warne wants to bypass midfield. It’s obviously an area that is costly and difficult to improve and one where he is  hoping it’s a case of damage limitation.

He obviously wants them to move the ball quickly not because he is control averse but because it’s an area for the opposition to exploit. A loss of possession in the middle of the pitch can lead to a quick counter attack and a chance to score.

[Comrade 86]

17 minutes ago, enachops said:

I’ve defender Bird in the past, but my patience has gone. He should be dominating at this level. Instead he’s chasing shadows. Doesn’t contribute enough offensively or defensively. Powder puff. Can’t tackle. Poor. He’ll go in the summer. A lower champ team will take him.

If he's as bad as you say, why do you assume he'll end up playing at a higher level? 

[Jourdan]

7 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He doesn't have too though, he's playing Fleetwood most weeks. He's only 32 your adding 18 months on him. Get legs around him, play through midfield and keep him predominantly within 25 yards of the opposition goal.  This will inevitably create space out wide as teams sitting in will be we'll aware if he has two shots, he's probably scoring one and will come out.  

Some players decline physically faster than others.

If he was still anywhere close to the same player, he’d be playing in the Championship, not with us.

We do need more athleticism in midfield but not in the complete absence of quality, so it’s difficult. I think shopping in the market we are currently, we might find a player who adds some pace, power and athleticism to the midfield but then could possibly create problems of his own.

It’s a very difficult balancing act.

[S8TY]

45 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Did you watch his defending for the goal? He looked a bit lively going forward, is that what you mean?

Edit: and I'm sure it doesn't help Cashin in his defensive duties either.

At least Elder made an attempt to stop the first shot 

take a look at the rest of our players in the box …doing f all so you’re wrong 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

11 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Some players decline physically faster than others.

If he was still anywhere close to the same player, he’d be playing in the Championship, not with us.

We do need more athleticism in midfield but not in the complete absence of quality, so it’s difficult. I think shopping in the market we are currently, we might find a player who adds some pace, power and athleticism to the midfield but then could possibly create problems of his own.

It’s a very difficult balancing act.

To my mind some players look like they've declined when asked too play a certain way that they haven't in 13 years and he's the only midfielder we have who'll get 10 goals. Almost got us an undeserved point tonight. I always thought Hughes looked too lightweight and awkward when asked to do more defensive work he wasn't physically suited too. We aren't playing people to their strengths.  Bradley up top, Sibley at full back, Thompson as a 10 still automatically harrying and going out of position.  Wilson neither out wide or defending but dancing between positions.   It's all adding to a more luck than judgement mess in the last third of games and a slow 20 minutes at the start where no-one knows what they're doing.