Will Clowes patience soon run out?

[Foreveram]

23 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

At what point should we feel entitled though? What if we were in League 2 or the National League? We were underperforming in the Championship

We’re a city with a population of 300,000. The only city in the country with a bigger population who’s team is lower than ours is Bradford. We’re also a one club city. 

Well of the top of my head I think Notts County, MK dons and Lincoln City prove you’re wrong, there’s probably more.

[Foreveram]

Just now, Foreveram said:

Well of the top of my head I think Notts County, MK dons and Lincoln City prove you’re wrong, there’s probably more.

Bristol Rovers.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Well of the top of my head I think Notts County, MK dons and Lincoln City prove you’re wrong, there’s probably more.

Lincoln? Or Lincolnshire?

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

I wouldn't go as far as saying we have the best squad, it's very lop sided.  We have very good defenders, a decent midfield, but we're lacking in attack.  But as Warne has alluded to, there has been a dearth of decent strikers available unless you can pay silly money, of which we don't have.  Having said that, if they're played regularly enough I'd expect Waghorn, Collins & Washington to get 10-15 this season

so your saying we are only really missing a top striker. Therefore overall we still have the best squad as a whole.

[Curtains]

His patience won’t run out if we play like that. 
 

Loved it 🥰 

[Ghost of Clough]

30 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Well of the top of my head I think Notts County, MK dons and Lincoln City prove you’re wrong, there’s probably more.

Not Lincoln, and Milton Keynes is more or less the same population as Derby.  I assume we're also ignoring non-league sides, and the multiple London clubs in L1 and below (Charlton, Leyton Orient, etc..)

The remaining teams are Bradford, Bristol Rovers, Doncaster and Notts County

[vonwright]

35 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Not Lincoln, and Milton Keynes is more or less the same population as Derby.  I assume we're also ignoring non-league sides, and the multiple London clubs in L1 and below (Charlton, Leyton Orient, etc..)

The remaining teams are Bradford, Bristol Rovers, Doncaster and Notts County

Milton Keynes is hardly a surprise either. A new club in a newish city. So no real roots, no loyalty passed between generations of families etc.

Bradford's an odd one because it's close to Leeds. A lot of people who are within the council boundary look east.

Doncaster's small, Notts County is the second Nottingham team (behind Radford FC of course).

Edited October 25, 2023 by vonwright

[DCFC Kicks]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

We should never feel "entitled" purely based on stadium size, fan base, city population, or number of teams in the city/immediate area. Our performance expectations shouldn't be based on these metrics.

Entitled is probably the wrong word. Those things are metrics to some degree because they obviously affect overall potential through revenue etc. Otherwise theoretically Chester City could compete with Man Utd, which would never happen. 

[DCFC Kicks]

3 hours ago, Foreveram said:

Well of the top of my head I think Notts County, MK dons and Lincoln City prove you’re wrong, there’s probably more.

Milton Keynes has a slightly lower population. Nottingham has a bigger population but its split between multiple clubs. Lincolns population is only 90k. 

[ramsbottom]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Dom Ballard was someone I suggested in the summer. He scored 6 in 3 U21 games for Southampton before going on loan to Reading where he's got 4 goals and 2 assists in 399 minutes of action, although 2 goals and 2 assists came in 27 minutes against Exeter in the EFL Trophy.

Callum Marshall is in fine form for West Ham U21s this season, with 10 goals and 2 assists in 7 games, 1 contribution every 50 minutes!! This is after 20 goals and 4 assists in 22 U18 games last season. I think he would suit Warne's desired pressing game very well.
He scored 2 goals in the EFL Trophy against Bristol Rovers (#50)

 

Mark O'Mahony is another who has started the season well for Brighton U21s, with 7 goals and 3 assists in 8 games.

If we're having to reply of young strikers with potential isn't that what our own academy for?  I think if we'd signed a pup on loan who'd only bagged, for the sake of argument 2 in 14, our fan base would be melting down quicker than it already is. 

3 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

so your saying we are only really missing a top striker. Therefore overall we still have the best squad as a whole.

How can you have the best squad overall if you don't have a good forward line??!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!!!???

[May Contain Nuts]

6 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Entitled is probably the wrong word. Those things are metrics to some degree because they obviously affect overall potential through revenue etc. Otherwise theoretically Chester City could compete with Man Utd, which would never happen. 

Aye. 120 seasons completed as a football club, 115 of them in the top 2 divisions.

The way some act you'd think that was all just a fluke, but there's good reason for us having spent so much of our playing time above our current level.

It may not count for anything in this precise moment, but it's utterly bizarre that people are being called out as 'entitled' for not having a ho-hum attitude toward our current position and not just accepting the third tier as our rightful place in the order of things.

[Tamworthram]

47 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Entitled is probably the wrong word. Those things are metrics to some degree because they obviously affect overall potential through revenue etc. Otherwise theoretically Chester City could compete with Man Utd, which would never happen. 

Yes, entitlement is definitely the wrong word. Expectation maybe but not entitlement.

It will never happen bit theoretically, (in someone's dream world) Chester City could one day compete if they found a rich sugar daddy. Who would have thought that a team like Bournemouth with their historic fan base, stadium size and population could compete in the Premier League? Or Yeovil could make it to league 1 and even the Championship (albeit for only one season).

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

It may not count for anything in this precise moment, but it's utterly bizarre that people are being called out as 'entitled' for not having a ho-hum attitude toward our current position and not just accepting the third tier as our rightful place in the order of things.

Nowhere near as bizarre as those who having pleaded with Clowes to save the club at a price of around £10-15 million over the odds, are now demanding that he stump up an additional £2 to £3 million in compo for Warne and his team. I've yet to hear a single suggestion as to how this will be financed and that's before we even consider the cost of fresh contracts for the new gaffer and his people.

And even if Clowes had it to spare and even if he was of a mind to spare it, how TF is he going to achieve all this under the current EFL business plan, or had folk forgotten that small matter in their haste to get Warne out of the door?

This kind of expectation with zero accountability, nor commercial rationale, is the very definition of 'entitled' as far as I'm concerned and more than a few of us are guilty as charged.

[GangwayD]

7 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

I wouldn't go as far as saying we have the best squad, it's very lop sided.  We have very good defenders, a decent midfield, but we're lacking in attack.  But as Warne has alluded to, there has been a dearth of decent strikers available unless you can pay silly money, of which we don't have.  Having said that, if they're played regularly enough I'd expect Waghorn, Collins & Washington to get 10-15 this season

I make you right Ramsbottom.  I bang on about Warne not replacing Didzy.  It wasn't just his goals, but his movement and his ability to receive the ball in tight areas and open things up.  Against Exeter NML was like the player of last season, but I think he's been really missing Didzy's quality. 

We need to get to January and be competing in the top six then bring in a couple at the top end of the pitch as for me, I don't see enough quality in Waghorn, Collins, and Washington.  Endeavor from them all, yes, but I can't see that trio firing us to promotion. 

I accept he will be working on a budget, but I think we should have risked quality of quantity up top, then filled in with the likes of Waghorn. 

Midfield is still an area we don't have enough legs, but should have enough about them to be doing better than we are - Warne needs to find the right blend and get a tune out of them.  Defensively I think we are very strong and we are not shipping goals. 

Problem being, is with so many out of contract, where will it leave us in January and the Summer, especially if we don't go up.  Another re-build meaning a new squad would have to gel again, so back to square one.

Cheers 

Gangway D from the terrace

 

 

 

  

[Foreveram]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Not Lincoln, and Milton Keynes is more or less the same population as Derby.  I assume we're also ignoring non-league sides, and the multiple London clubs in L1 and below (Charlton, Leyton Orient, etc..)

The remaining teams are Bradford, Bristol Rovers, Doncaster and Notts County

I googled population of Lincoln when I was just on my way out, I should have realised it gave me Lincoln Nebraska 😂

[GangwayD]

48 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Nowhere near as bizarre as those who having pleaded with Clowes to save the club at a price of around £10-15 million over the odds, are now demanding that he stump up an additional £2 to £3 million in compo for Warne and his team. I've yet to hear a single suggestion as to how this will be financed and that's before we even consider the cost of fresh contracts for the new gaffer and his people.

And even if Clowes had it to spare and even if he was of a mind to spare it, how TF is he going to achieve all this under the current EFL business plan, or had folk forgotten that small matter in their haste to get Warne out of the door?

This kind of expectation with zero accountability, nor commercial rationale, is the very definition of 'entitled' as far as I'm concerned and more than a few of us are guilty as charged.

I can understand that patience amongst certain elements of our fan base is running thin.  Since the Villa Play Off game we have had a very tough few seasons and little to enjoy. The marches and the collective spirit against the EFL was outstanding and other teams looked on in envy at our support that was so together and behind a team whereby results rarely went in our favour.  

It seems to have changed so quickly but I don't think we are entitled.  The facts are, we are a big club that has find ourselves in a league we have rarely visited, which on our previous visit we looked like, and did, progress after similar financial issues, arguably in a far worst position.  We have yet to see similar progress and this is why frustration has boiled over.  Certain performances have been extremely disappointing to say the least.  

I don't know how much Clowes wants/has to invest in us but if I am speculating then I doubt he'd want to go to the expense of sacking Warne at the moment.  However, we need to be in the mix for top two and secured in the play off position come mid December, otherwise Warne has to go - if not, then a new manager needs to be given the January window and the rest of the season to try and turn things around.

Not sure if this makes me entitled, but if it does, then so be it.

Gangway D from the terrace

 

[Comrade 86]

9 minutes ago, GangwayD said:

I can understand that patience amongst certain elements of our fan base is running thin.  Since the Villa Play Off game we have had a very tough few seasons and little to enjoy. The marches and the collective spirit against the EFL was outstanding and other teams looked on in envy at our support that was so together and behind a team whereby results rarely went in our favour.  

It seems to have changed so quickly but I don't think we are entitled.  The facts are, we are a big club that has find ourselves in a league we have rarely visited, which on our previous visit we looked like, and did, progress after similar financial issues, arguably in a far worst position.  We have yet to see similar progress and this is why frustration has boiled over.  Certain performances have been extremely disappointing to say the least.  

I don't know how much Clowes wants/has to invest in us but if I am speculating then I doubt he'd want to go to the expense of sacking Warne at the moment.  However, we need to be in the mix for top two and secured in the play off position come mid December, otherwise Warne has to go - if not, then a new manager needs to be given the January window and the rest of the season to try and turn things around.

Not sure if this makes me entitled, but if it does, then so be it.

Gangway D from the terrace

 

You need to read the post to which I replied for the context of my post.

For what it's worth, the highlighted section above pretty much mirrors my thinking, but let's not forget that we've had posters on here demanding PW's removal since the 3rd game of the season. Your stance is certainly not one I had in mind when scribing my earlier post.

As it is, I would agree that if things are not looking good in December, then perhaps a call needs to be made, but what I don't do, is flatly assume that A) that Clowes agrees with me and should act on my demands or B) that removing Warne is even feasible until the business plan restrictions end next July. As previously stated, that IS entitlement in its purest sense and I make no bones about it.

Comrade 86 from the Shire

[CongletonRam]

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

Nowhere near as bizarre as those who having pleaded with Clowes to save the club at a price of around £10-15 million over the odds, are now demanding that he stump up an additional £2 to £3 million in compo for Warne and his team. I've yet to hear a single suggestion as to how this will be financed and that's before we even consider the cost of fresh contracts for the new gaffer and his people.

And even if Clowes had it to spare and even if he was of a mind to spare it, how TF is he going to achieve all this under the current EFL business plan, or had folk forgotten that small matter in their haste to get Warne out of the door?

This kind of expectation with zero accountability, nor commercial rationale, is the very definition of 'entitled' as far as I'm concerned and more than a few of us are guilty as charged.

And here is some sense.

Clowes is tied in with PW for the long term irrespective of what the fans think IMO.

Leaving PW in charge even if we don't achieve our (primary?) objective of securing promotion makes business sense when you consider the alternative. DCFC has to be run as a business, and to run a business sustainably,, one cannot exceed budgets and pump considerable money into the club. He has to balance, as best as he can, the finances.

Granted, we all want to move up the leagues, but the angle that our owner is looking at this is probably very different than those who are demanding he turf PW out.

[May Contain Nuts]

28 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

You need to read the post to which I replied for the context of my post.

For what it's worth, the highlighted section above pretty much mirrors my thinking, but let's not forget that we've had posters on here demanding PW's removal since the 3rd game of the season. Your stance is certainly not one I had in mind when scribing my earlier post.

As it is, I would agree that if things are not looking good in December, then perhaps a call needs to be made, but what I don't do, is flatly assume that A) that Clowes agrees with me and should act on my demands or B) that removing Warne is even feasible until the business plan restrictions end next July. As previously stated, that IS entitlement in its purest sense and I make no bones about it.

Comrade 86 from the Shire

 

A post you went totally overboard on, considering it was nothing to do with the current Warne in/out debate but the general perception that thinking Derby County should be in the Championship or above is in and of itself 'entitled'. A continuation of the discussion about how the size of a club and other factors affects the level they're expected to be playing at.

It was also reflecting on the number of times you read people being accused of "thinking we have a divine right" to beat this team or that team, or be in the league above (when nobody actually thinks that) as a response to any and all criticism of our individual results or current position in the table.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[GangwayD]

2 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

You need to read the post to which I replied for the context of my post.

For what it's worth, the highlighted section above pretty much mirrors my thinking, but let's not forget that we've had posters on here demanding PW's removal since the 3rd game of the season. Your stance is certainly not one I had in mind when scribing my earlier post.

As it is, I would agree that if things are not looking good in December, then perhaps a call needs to be made, but what I don't do, is flatly assume that A) that Clowes agrees with me and should act on my demands or B) that removing Warne is even feasible until the business plan restrictions end next July. As previously stated, that IS entitlement in its purest sense and I make no bones about it.

Comrade 86 from the Shire

It seems we pretty much agree.  I also don't agree with those who wanted Warne sacked after 3 games this season either, although in this instant society we have created they would argue he had most of the previous season and things have not improved but looked like it was getting worse. 

Personally I think Warne is walking on thin ice and we have to see improvement in performance and league position as we agreed - I too do not assume the points you mentioned and I really hope things tun for DC, for putting his hand in his pocket and saving our great club.  I try to put myself in DC's position - he let Rosenior go and backed his horse by bringing in Warne - as a Football chairman you more often than not have to sack a manager - so you would think financially it's all part of the plan and you hope you don't have to pay out on, but in truth I've no idea how much it would cost.   

The Warne interview after the Shrewsbury game really annoyed me - it was a very poor performance I felt we didn't deserve anything from the game - and his whole interview contradicted that, especially about all the so called chances we never took.  We should be better and we should be competing with the likes of Shrewsbury.

I sincerely hope performances improve and debates like this are confined to history. 

I still don't think that's me being entitled.

Gangway D from the terrace.