England - Euro 2024 qualifiers

[Andicis]

9 minutes ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

I'd try and offer De Zerbi mega bucks and say he can manage a club side at the same time ,don't think he'd accept the job though.  Would maybe go for a foreign manager as most of ours are s****, Cooper might not be a bad shout isn't he Welsh ? Maybe see whatever elite manager is available that can speak decent English and play suitable football.  There is no English managers of quality,  Rowett would be a top 6 or 7 candidate if we were looking for English managers with experience 😂.

It's not fifa, nobody is managing a premier league side as well as a top international side. If we're talking English managers, Eddie Howe is the obvious candidate, assuming he would leave an excellent job as Newcastle manager which is unlikely.

[Bris Vegas]

England have a brilliant squad. We aren’t blessed with the best central defenders in Europe, or left-back or GK, but every other spot we have a player who is arguably top 5-10 in Europe in that position.

We can win Euro 2024.

But to do so, we are going to have to do something Southgate (or any other England manager in my lifetime) has never done before - beat a top team on foreign soil in knockout football.

I started watching football in the 90s so I’ve seen us lose to Brazil, Portugal, France, Italy, Belgium, Croatia and Germany. 

The best teams we have beaten in knockout football is Denmark in 02, Ukraine in 2020 and Colombia in 2018. 

[cannable]

6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

England have a brilliant squad. We aren’t blessed with the best central defenders in Europe, or left-back or GK, but every other spot we have a player who is arguably top 5-10 in Europe in that position.

We can win Euro 2024.

But to do so, we are going to have to do something Southgate (or any other England manager in my lifetime) has never done before - beat a top team on foreign soil in knockout football.

I started watching football in the 90s so I’ve seen us lose to Brazil, Portugal, France, Italy, Belgium, Croatia and Germany. 

The best teams we have beaten in knockout football is Denmark in 02, Ukraine in 2020 and Colombia in 2018. 

Ooooooooo don’t be controversial, it was a bad Germany but it was still Germany, even if they’ve been s**** for years at least we’ve beaten a traditionally big team 

I get what you’re saying, we’ve not beaten one of the best but that felt like a significant hurdle

[Bris Vegas]

30 minutes ago, cannable said:

Ooooooooo don’t be controversial, it was a bad Germany but it was still Germany, even if they’ve been s**** for years at least we’ve beaten a traditionally big team 

I get what you’re saying, we’ve not beaten one of the best but that felt like a significant hurdle

I did conveniently put on foreign soil. 😀 I also saw us beat Spain in 96.

[sage]

2 hours ago, Ken said:

100%,

Players should be picked on form.

I had a chuckle the other day, I read that Jadon Sancho would be looking for a January transfer in order to 'get first team football and give him a chance of getting in the England squad' next summer.

He has only got to look across the training ground to see Harry Maguire who gets in the England team despite barely playing a game 🤣

I'm not a fan of Gareth, he's done a good job but I firmly believe a lot of other managers would have done too given the players at their disposal, over the past 2 years the pool of England players has grown in depth, all over the pitch, lots of those players will develop and get even better.

The next 5 years should be very exciting for us England fans but with Gareth's constant picking of the out of form Maguire while ignoring the inform Raheem Sterling makes me doubt that someone who isn't choosing players on form and clearly can't manage something in Raheem Sterling's personality has the know-how to guide us to glory.

The choice of penalty takers for the Euro Final against Italy shows he wasn't aware of how the youngsters would cope with the nerves etc but of course Gareth wouldn't know that as he didn't regularly compete for or win major trophies as a player or as a manager.

To kick on we need a manager with a bit of personality and charisma, not a media darling and to be honest I can't think of a single English manager out there who has those personality traits let alone experience of competing for big trophies.

Sterling had 3 good games and has been 'ok' since.

His problem is, his best position is taken by Saka, which Foden and then Bowen behind him.

We are short of CBs and DCMs. If a CAM or RW had missed the games Maguire and Kalvin-Phillips have, they wouldn't be picked as we have strength there.

Southgate played in a Euro Semi Final that went to penalties ffs. Oooh let's have Bryan Robson or Steve Gerrard or Gary Neville...oh wait 

[uttoxram75]

59 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

England have a brilliant squad. We aren’t blessed with the best central defenders in Europe, or left-back or GK, but every other spot we have a player who is arguably top 5-10 in Europe in that position.

We can win Euro 2024.

But to do so, we are going to have to do something Southgate (or any other England manager in my lifetime) has never done before - beat a top team on foreign soil in knockout football.

I started watching football in the 90s so I’ve seen us lose to Brazil, Portugal, France, Italy, Belgium, Croatia and Germany. 

The best teams we have beaten in knockout football is Denmark in 02, Ukraine in 2020 and Colombia in 2018. 

I agree we have a squad capable of winning. What we don't have is a manager with the cojones of Alf Ramsay who would drop a favourite player for the benefit of the team.

In 1966, Jimmy Greaves was the nation's hero, A superb goalscorer with pace and skill who could win you a game with a flash of brilliance. 

He was dropped for Geoff Hurst who was a decent player, but not explosive or capable of going past a defender, but who could hold the ball up and bring other players into the game. He could stop the other team attacking by keeping the ball, sticking his big arse into the defender and winning fouls, Chris Martin if you will........

The point is, Ramsay wasn't bothered about the press, the fans or the pundits, he picked a team to win a competition knowing the other teams will cheat, dive and foul to win a game so he picked players who were hard enough to cope with that. 

Imagine Kane for instance being dropped for a lesser player but who would give the team more chance of winning. Not that we've got a play like that, but if we had, Southgate would not pick him.

[cannable]

29 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I agree we have a squad capable of winning. What we don't have is a manager with the cojones of Alf Ramsay who would drop a favourite player for the benefit of the team.

In 1966, Jimmy Greaves was the nation's hero, A superb goalscorer with pace and skill who could win you a game with a flash of brilliance. 

He was dropped for Geoff Hurst who was a decent player, but not explosive or capable of going past a defender, but who could hold the ball up and bring other players into the game. He could stop the other team attacking by keeping the ball, sticking his big arse into the defender and winning fouls, Chris Martin if you will........

The point is, Ramsay wasn't bothered about the press, the fans or the pundits, he picked a team to win a competition knowing the other teams will cheat, dive and foul to win a game so he picked players who were hard enough to cope with that. 

Imagine Kane for instance being dropped for a lesser player but who would give the team more chance of winning. Not that we've got a play like that, but if we had, Southgate would not pick him.

Could you not argue Southgate’s doing that in still picking Maguire, Henderson and Phillips?

[Carl Sagan]

17 hours ago, jameso said:

EDIT: I have of course conveniently forgotten the Euros final! Although it was down to the lottery of a penalty shoot-out... having said that, I didn't think that game made a good case for Southgate. He seemed intent on going old-school Mourinho after taking the lead, and Italy were deserved winners.

A penalty shootout is never a lottery. Also, I only heard recently that Saha had never taken a penalty in senior football before Southgate put him up to take the decisive one against Italy. Grounds in itself for getting rid of Southgate. With the players at his disposal we should be dominating world football, yet his lack of tactical awareness always sees us lose in tournaments when up against a better coach.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

A penalty shootout is never a lottery. Also, I only heard recently that Saha had never taken a penalty in senior football before Southgate put him up to take the decisive one against Italy. Grounds in itself for getting rid of Southgate. With the players at his disposal we should be dominating world football, yet his lack of tactical awareness always sees us lose in tournaments when up against a better coach.

It's a fair point and that was a lazy choice of words on my part - what I meant is that (most of) the tactics are done and dusted when you get to the penalty stage and moments of chance/luck but also of composure/nerves can count for more and leave less opportunity to be cancelled out by your opponent. Obviously a team who can call on more experience, composure, nerve, etc. can be expected to fare better in a shootout... and/or the team with the goalie more adept at penalties (and/or mind games!)

It doesn't look good on Southgate that he picked Saka but I am assuming, rightly or wrongly, that Saka said he wanted one, while other more experienced players didn't want to step up. I know it's not the same as a Euro final, but a long time ago I played in a game that went to penalties. The only young player on our team (other than me) wanted to take one. The manager didn't want to let him, but he couldn't find five other takers! He took it and scored. (But we lost anyway! 🤣)

[Marriot Ram99]

Controversial as he is a Red dog but I'd call up Morgan Gibbs White and start him next to Bellingham,  think he is class and has enough physicality and athleticism to have enough defensive ability to play as an 8 unlike Maddison for example.  Would also give Harvey Elliot a call up to the senior squad and drop Gallagher and Phillips. 

He is young as well and was part of an England World Cup winning squad with the likes of Brewster and Foden.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Marriot Ram99

[Van der MoodHoover]

For the life of me I couldn't understand why Italy didn't target Maguire more last night.

Nobody ran at him, pressed him he had no tackles to make that I recall. His only attempt to block missed and Italy scored.

He looked nervous, out of form and barely raised a trot forward.

Italy were pretty wretched for not exploring that position. Pirlo would have been pinging passes over, around and beyond him.

[Srg]

2 hours ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

Controversial as he is a Red dog but I'd call up Morgan Gibbs White and start him next to Bellingham,  think he is class and has enough physicality and athleticism to have enough defensive ability to play as an 8 unlike Maddison for example.  Would also give Harvey Elliot a call up to the senior squad and drop Gallagher and Phillips. 

He is young as well and was part of an England World Cup winning squad with the likes of Brewster and Foden.

Doesn't make any sense to do that. He doesn't play there for Forest, and he isn't getting in over Maddison, Foden, Grealish, Saka, Rashford, Bowen etc in the other positions. If JWP can't get in the squad, there's no argument for Gibbs-White.

59 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

For the life of me I couldn't understand why Italy didn't target Maguire more last night.

Nobody ran at him, pressed him he had no tackles to make that I recall. His only attempt to block missed and Italy scored.

He looked nervous, out of form and barely raised a trot forward.

Italy were pretty wretched for not exploring that position. Pirlo would have been pinging passes over, around and beyond him.

This Italy team is rubbish, is mainly why. They weren't good when they won the Euros, and they've only got worse with the loss off Chiellini and Bonucci. Verratti plays in Qatar, Immobile is 33, Insigne is 32 and in the MLS. They had Moise Kean up front in the second half, should tell you all you need to know about their quality at the moment. Very real chance they don't qualify. They have to beat Macedonia next, then would face a winner takes all vs. Ukraine.

[Carl Sagan]

7 hours ago, jameso said:

It's a fair point and that was a lazy choice of words on my part - what I meant is that (most of) the tactics are done and dusted when you get to the penalty stage and moments of chance/luck but also of composure/nerves can count for more and leave less opportunity to be cancelled out by your opponent. Obviously a team who can call on more experience, composure, nerve, etc. can be expected to fare better in a shootout... and/or the team with the goalie more adept at penalties (and/or mind games!)

It doesn't look good on Southgate that he picked Saka but I am assuming, rightly or wrongly, that Saka said he wanted one, while other more experienced players didn't want to step up. I know it's not the same as a Euro final, but a long time ago I played in a game that went to penalties. The only young player on our team (other than me) wanted to take one. The manager didn't want to let him, but he couldn't find five other takers! He took it and scored. (But we lost anyway! 🤣)

Cheers. Sorry you lost your shootout!

Supposedly, in the "science" of taking penalties it is never up to the player (unless they're injured). You pick your takers and the order long before, and all the players should all know what they're doing. Southgate must know all this as he seems at least a little interested in modern methods. Statistically you're most successful when you put your best penalty taker last, when there's the most pressure. If Saka only took one because he put his hand up and no one else did, Southgate should have been sacked on the spot. It's one of the strangest decisions I've ever seen in football by a manager. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

Controversial as he is a Red dog but I'd call up Morgan Gibbs White and start him next to Bellingham,  think he is class and has enough physicality and athleticism to have enough defensive ability to play as an 8 unlike Maddison for example.  Would also give Harvey Elliot a call up to the senior squad and drop Gallagher and Phillips. 

He is young as well and was part of an England World Cup winning squad with the likes of Brewster and Foden.

Yes it pains to me say it but Gibbs-White is truly a player. I laughed when I heard they'd spent all that money on him... but I'm not laughing now 😢

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Srg said:

Very real chance they don't qualify. They have to beat Macedonia next, then would face a winner takes all vs. Ukraine.

This is true but if they beat N Macedonia they'd "only" need a draw in the Ukraine match. I'd expect them not to lose that one... but then I wouldn't have expected them to lose to N Macedonia in the World Cup play-offs!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

For the life of me I couldn't understand why Italy didn't target Maguire more last night.

Nobody ran at him, pressed him he had no tackles to make that I recall. His only attempt to block missed and Italy scored.

He looked nervous, out of form and barely raised a trot forward.

Italy were pretty wretched for not exploring that position. Pirlo would have been pinging passes over, around and beyond him.

You're right. He was allowed to play at a very pedestrian pace and the couple of times they burst forward and switched play to the overlapping full-back, they looked very dangerous (and scored off one of them).

[TigerTedd]

13 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

I agree we have a squad capable of winning. What we don't have is a manager with the cojones of Alf Ramsay who would drop a favourite player for the benefit of the team.

In 1966, Jimmy Greaves was the nation's hero, A superb goalscorer with pace and skill who could win you a game with a flash of brilliance. 

He was dropped for Geoff Hurst who was a decent player, but not explosive or capable of going past a defender, but who could hold the ball up and bring other players into the game. He could stop the other team attacking by keeping the ball, sticking his big arse into the defender and winning fouls, Chris Martin if you will........

The point is, Ramsay wasn't bothered about the press, the fans or the pundits, he picked a team to win a competition knowing the other teams will cheat, dive and foul to win a game so he picked players who were hard enough to cope with that. 

Imagine Kane for instance being dropped for a lesser player but who would give the team more chance of winning. Not that we've got a play like that, but if we had, Southgate would not pick him.

Hold on. You’ve literally described what Southgate does. The press and public are baying for Maddison to start, but he starts Phillips because he’s better for how he sets up the team. Knowing he’ll get pellets from the fans.

I don’t think he picks them cos they’re his mates. He picks them cos they fit his system best. International football isn’t about picking the 11 best players, it’s about making the best team. Which is pretty much what you’ve said, so it’s weird that you’d use that as a stick to beat Southgate with, cos that’s the one thing he’s very good at, and I feel like he’ll die on that hill.

And Kane is a pretty bad example of someone you’d drop for someone who might be better for the team. Kane does everything. There’s literally nothing he’s not good at from a striking point of view. You’d be insane to drop him in favour of anyone on the planet (despite Tottenham getting better without him, that’s just freakish). I’d take Kane over haaland. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Hold on. You’ve literally described what Southgate does. The press and public are baying for Maddison to start, but he starts Phillips because he’s better for how he sets up the team. Knowing he’ll get pellets from the fans.

I don’t think he picks them cos they’re his mates. He picks them cos they fit his system best. International football isn’t about picking the 11 best players, it’s about making the best team. Which is pretty much what you’ve said, so it’s weird that you’d use that as a stick to beat Southgate with, cos that’s the one thing he’s very good at, and I feel like he’ll die on that hill.

And Kane is a pretty bad example of someone you’d drop for someone who might be better for the team. Kane does everything. There’s literally nothing he’s not good at from a striking point of view. You’d be insane to drop him in favour of anyone on the planet (despite Tottenham getting better without him, that’s just freakish). I’d take Kane over haaland. 

Agreed, although I wouldn't pick Maddison and would never have expected him to pick someone as forward-thinking as that over a player in the Phillips mould for the game last night (but I would have preferred to see TAA there, which may have been a gamble defensively).

Yes, with the exception of out-and-out pace, Kane has got it all. (And yes I realise he was definitely quick enough for the third goal last night!) But I take @uttoxram75's point. Unfortunately when thinking of a manager who'd drop better players for the presumed benefit of the team, the first England manager who came to my mind was Graham Taylor in 1992!

[PistoldPete]

16 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

A penalty shootout is never a lottery. Also, I only heard recently that Saha had never taken a penalty in senior football before Southgate put him up to take the decisive one against Italy. Grounds in itself for getting rid of Southgate. With the players at his disposal we should be dominating world football, yet his lack of tactical awareness always sees us lose in tournaments when up against a better coach.

I only wish we had Saha taking the penalty for England . Unfortunately it was Saka and he was only 19 at the time. 

[Carl Sagan]

5 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I only wish we had Saha taking the penalty for England . Unfortunately it was Saka and he was only 19 at the time. 

Indeed. I realized my error but too late to edit. What a waste Saha was discarded for England after two friendlies and now plays for the Ivory Coast. An amazing player.