European Super League could contain up to 80 teams

[Elwood P Dowd]

I see this has raised its ugly head again, I wouldnt want Derby playing in such a league; there's so much tradition playing our local rivals such Forrest, Sheffield, Burton and even Leicester ? half the enjoyment in the game is when those fixtures come up.  I just dont see supporters having the same paasion for regular league games with European clubs. 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12806616/european-super-league-fresh-plans-for-80-team-competition-announced-by-chief-executive-bernd-reichart

Edited February 9, 2023 by Elwood P Dowd

[RadioactiveWaste]

It's a terrible idea.

The only way it could work is a complete reorganization of all European football into a single league structure. Which I don't see happening and no one wants outside of the Megabucks clubs who only want to bother themselves with playing against other Megabucks clubs.

[Gaspode]

A joint statement from the PL & the EFL could kill this before it gets any further traction: "Any club joining the ESL will be kicked out of the domestic football league structure - re-admittance will only be considered via level 10 of the football pyramid".... unfortunately they don't have the nadgers to play hard-ball with the big teams....

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

A joint statement from the PL & the EFL could kill this before it gets any further traction: "Any club joining the ESL will be kicked out of the domestic football league structure - re-admittance will only be considered via level 10 of the football pyramid".... unfortunately they don't have the nadgers to play hard-ball with the big teams....

The premiership clubs are not allowed to leave or even discuss it ( new rules) 

in any event if any club wanted to join it then for me that would be fine - resign and leave, which wouldn’t happen because they would want to eat from both cakes. Personally if they did well 14 games in a season might put them off if they couldn’t play in the English leagues 

[Chopper]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

A joint statement from the PL & the EFL could kill this before it gets any further traction: "Any club joining the ESL will be kicked out of the domestic football league structure - re-admittance will only be considered via level 10 of the football pyramid".... unfortunately they don't have the nadgers to play hard-ball with the big teams....

You missed out "and Derby will be deducted 9 points per club joining"

[DarkFruitsRam7]

5 hours ago, Gaspode said:

A joint statement from the PL & the EFL could kill this before it gets any further traction: "Any club joining the ESL will be kicked out of the domestic football league structure - re-admittance will only be considered via level 10 of the football pyramid".... unfortunately they don't have the nadgers to play hard-ball with the big teams....

There are potential legal issues associated with that. I wrote my dissertation on it.

There was a ruling a few months ago that shed some light on what might happen should such obstructive action be taken, and I think it was sympathetic towards domestic leagues moving against the Super League, but I couldn't be arsed to read up on it (I'd long since graduated).

[Elwood P Dowd]

Its a long road back to the Premiership from Level 10?

Level 10

Combined Counties League Division One – 21 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Eastern Counties League Division One North – 19 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Eastern Counties League Division One South – 19 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Hellenic League Division One – 19 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Midland League Division One – 21 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
North West Counties League Division One North – 18 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
North West Counties League Division One South – 20 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Northern Counties East League Division One – 20 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Northern League Division Two – 21 clubs — 2p, 0–3r

South West Peninsula League Premier Division East – 19 clubs — 1p, 0–3r
South West Peninsula League Premier Division West – 18 clubs — 1p, 0–3r
Southern Combination League Division One – 17 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Southern Counties East League Division One – 18 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Spartan South Midlands League Division One – 20 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
United Counties League Division One – 22 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Wessex League Division One – 20 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Western League Division One – 22 clubs — 2p, 0–3r

[Reggie Greenwood]

24 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Its a long road back to the Premiership from Level 10?

Level 10

Combined Counties League Division One – 21 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Eastern Counties League Division One North – 19 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Eastern Counties League Division One South – 19 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Hellenic League Division One – 19 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Midland League Division One – 21 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
North West Counties League Division One North – 18 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
North West Counties League Division One South – 20 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Northern Counties East League Division One – 20 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Northern League Division Two – 21 clubs — 2p, 0–3r

South West Peninsula League Premier Division East – 19 clubs — 1p, 0–3r
South West Peninsula League Premier Division West – 18 clubs — 1p, 0–3r
Southern Combination League Division One – 17 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Southern Counties East League Division One – 18 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Spartan South Midlands League Division One – 20 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
United Counties League Division One – 22 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Wessex League Division One – 20 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Western League Division One – 22 clubs — 2p, 0–3r

Excellent , should be joined by MK Cuckoos as well 

[AndyinLiverpool]

Just go

[TigerTedd]

Se this wasn’t a million miles away from my idea, but idea is better in some significant ways. 

1) have 4 European leagues, different tiers akin to the champions, europa and conference. teams qualify for these based on their placement in domestic leagues, and domestic leagues get places allocated in different leagues by the same system they do now, with regular reviews. 

2) the winner of a league is promoted to the next league, regardless of a countries allocation. 

3) this is where it gets different. Each country has at least 2 teams in a league. Only the highest place team gets to stay in the league, the rest all get relegated to their domestic league. 

in this way you not only get competition to win the league, you also get competition to do better than the other teams from your country, because loads of teams will be relegated each season.

4) this replaces the domestic league for the teams that play in it, so it’s a proper 38 game league season in Europe. But the door is open to be demoted back to the domestic league next season. 

5) this would run alongside a proper knock out cup, (you could call it something insane, like the European cup), including 128 teams over 7 knock out rounds. Including all 80 league teams, plus another 48 places allocated to other teams in the domestic leagues. Similar to the league cup / fa cup. Winner automatically starts in league A next season.

advantages:

a regular reshuffle of the domestic league, so more teams get a chance to win it. 

a regular reshuffle of teams competing in the European league. Unless your the top rated side from your country, you’ll never play two consecutive years in Europe.

lots of competition, lots of reasons to place highly (not like F1, where only the winner counts, you’ll have interesting battles further down the league as teams compete to be the highest ranked from their country - you could also have a prize for the best performing country, like the constructors championship). 

disadvantages: fans away days would almost all be in Europe. But they’ll still have home days, and they’d probably plan to go to a few away days anyway in Europe. It’s cheaper for a Newcastle fan to get to Barcelona than Southampton. And it opens the door for more international fans to attend games. The away ends will never be empty. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

4 hours ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Its a long road back to the Premiership from Level 10?

Level 10

....
Hellenic League Division One – 19 clubs — 2p, 0–3r
Midland League Division One – 21 clubs — 2p, 0–3r

.....

Forests feeder league? ?

[CBRammette]

On 10/02/2023 at 13:42, TigerTedd said:

Se this wasn’t a million miles away from my idea, but idea is better in some significant ways. 

1) have 4 European leagues, different tiers akin to the champions, europa and conference. teams qualify for these based on their placement in domestic leagues, and domestic leagues get places allocated in different leagues by the same system they do now, with regular reviews. 

2) the winner of a league is promoted to the next league, regardless of a countries allocation. 

3) this is where it gets different. Each country has at least 2 teams in a league. Only the highest place team gets to stay in the league, the rest all get relegated to their domestic league. 

in this way you not only get competition to win the league, you also get competition to do better than the other teams from your country, because loads of teams will be relegated each season.

4) this replaces the domestic league for the teams that play in it, so it’s a proper 38 game league season in Europe. But the door is open to be demoted back to the domestic league next season. 

5) this would run alongside a proper knock out cup, (you could call it something insane, like the European cup), including 128 teams over 7 knock out rounds. Including all 80 league teams, plus another 48 places allocated to other teams in the domestic leagues. Similar to the league cup / fa cup. Winner automatically starts in league A next season.

advantages:

a regular reshuffle of the domestic league, so more teams get a chance to win it. 

a regular reshuffle of teams competing in the European league. Unless your the top rated side from your country, you’ll never play two consecutive years in Europe.

lots of competition, lots of reasons to place highly (not like F1, where only the winner counts, you’ll have interesting battles further down the league as teams compete to be the highest ranked from their country - you could also have a prize for the best performing country, like the constructors championship). 

disadvantages: fans away days would almost all be in Europe. But they’ll still have home days, and they’d probably plan to go to a few away days anyway in Europe. It’s cheaper for a Newcastle fan to get to Barcelona than Southampton. And it opens the door for more international fans to attend games. The away ends will never be empty. 

Just no - will be start of the end for our English football leagues from fan perspective. We travel 5 hours round trip for a home match - would I do that every week to watch some minor European club I dont give a ?about beating?   if this is set up you dont think they will then change the rules on relegation to domestic league - very naive ??

[Tamworthram]

On 10/02/2023 at 13:42, TigerTedd said:

Se this wasn’t a million miles away from my idea, but idea is better in some significant ways. 

1) have 4 European leagues, different tiers akin to the champions, europa and conference. teams qualify for these based on their placement in domestic leagues, and domestic leagues get places allocated in different leagues by the same system they do now, with regular reviews. 

2) the winner of a league is promoted to the next league, regardless of a countries allocation. 

3) this is where it gets different. Each country has at least 2 teams in a league. Only the highest place team gets to stay in the league, the rest all get relegated to their domestic league. 

in this way you not only get competition to win the league, you also get competition to do better than the other teams from your country, because loads of teams will be relegated each season.

4) this replaces the domestic league for the teams that play in it, so it’s a proper 38 game league season in Europe. But the door is open to be demoted back to the domestic league next season. 

5) this would run alongside a proper knock out cup, (you could call it something insane, like the European cup), including 128 teams over 7 knock out rounds. Including all 80 league teams, plus another 48 places allocated to other teams in the domestic leagues. Similar to the league cup / fa cup. Winner automatically starts in league A next season.

advantages:

a regular reshuffle of the domestic league, so more teams get a chance to win it. 

a regular reshuffle of teams competing in the European league. Unless your the top rated side from your country, you’ll never play two consecutive years in Europe.

lots of competition, lots of reasons to place highly (not like F1, where only the winner counts, you’ll have interesting battles further down the league as teams compete to be the highest ranked from their country - you could also have a prize for the best performing country, like the constructors championship). 

disadvantages: fans away days would almost all be in Europe. But they’ll still have home days, and they’d probably plan to go to a few away days anyway in Europe. It’s cheaper for a Newcastle fan to get to Barcelona than Southampton. And it opens the door for more international fans to attend games. The away ends will never be empty. 

Sounds likes a horrible idea.

I can see your point regarding giving more teams a chance to win the domestic league but that would just devalue the domestic league. I can't see the top teams signing up to the prospect of not having a good chance of playing in Europe in consecutive years.

The example you have given: Newcastle to Barcelona or Southampton is of course an extreme example. I haven't done any research but I'm pretty sure it's more convenient, and probably cheaper, for them to travel to the likes of Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds and probably London by coach than it is to fly to Barcelona and back. Barcelona is of course well served by international flights and I don't doubt you can pick up a bargain (surely the low cost airlines wouldn't put their prices up for the weekend Newcastle were playing Barcelona ?) but what if they were playing someone like Monaco or Lens? Would it be that easy to pick up a reasonably priced return flight with suitable flight times. And that is just your extreme example of Newcastle. For more centrally located teams, travelling to domestic away games is far less of an ordeal or cost than it is for Newcastle.

Also, why would the away ends never be empty? Would supporters from teams playing in the 3rd and 4th tier of your model really want to travel every other week to watch their team play away at similar placed teams in other countries? 

Finally, why do we need to open the door for more international fans?

I'm not adverse to progress and change but this model sounds like several steps too far for me.

[Mucker1884]

3 hours ago, CBRammette said:

Just no - will be start of the end for our English football leagues from fan perspective. We travel 5 hours round trip for a home match - would I do that every week to watch some minor European club I dont give a ?about beating?   if this is set up you dont think they will then change the rules on relegation to domestic league - very naive ??

My answer is "Yes.  Yes you would, because you are a Rams fan".  ?

Let's face it, it wasn't all that long ago that we didn't give a ? about beating the likes of Lincoln and Morecambe etc.  Now we are in the same league, all of a sudden, they matter.
We may not like it, of course.  It may not be our preferred scenario... but yes... we'd still turn up, if that was all that was on offer, week after week.

[CBRammette]

2 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

My answer is "Yes.  Yes you would, because you are a Rams fan".  ?

Let's face it, it wasn't all that long ago that we didn't give a ? about beating the likes of Lincoln and Morecambe etc.  Now we are in the same league, all of a sudden, they matter.
We may not like it, of course.  It may not be our preferred scenario... but yes... we'd still turn up, if that was all that was on offer, week after week.

No I wouldnt. That would be it

[alexxxxx]

Can't see why UEFA couldn't just sanction a competition like that under its own remit. Next season's champions league will be under the new format with 10 games minimum per team, all against different opposition.