Port Vale (A) Tues 24th Jan

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

We've cut the gap to Sheff Wed and Plymouth (if we win the game in hand on Plymouth) to eight points - we have to overtake just one of them

Sheff Weds & Plymouth play each other next too, whilst 5 of our next 7 games are at home...

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Do you not think, playing like we did last night, we’d be at risk of losing our away games at Plymouth, Sheffield Wednesday or Barnsley?

I reckon last night was a classic case of not playing particularly well but somehow finding a way to win. I’m not sure we’d be able to pull it off against a better team.
 

If we hadn't been creating very good chances, and maybe not even had a shot on goal until we scored say, then I'd think we were lucky. But actually we were unlucky with our finishing and we created some very good chances, so yes we'd be able to pull it off against other teams (not better - who do you mean?).

Edited January 25, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Do you not think, playing like we did last night, we’d be at risk of losing our away games at Plymouth, Sheffield Wednesday or Barnsley?

I reckon last night was a classic case of not playing particularly well but somehow finding a way to win. I’m not sure we’d be able to pull it off against a better team.
 

Port vale not having a game Saturday made a big difference but second half we were excellent attacking wise - I just watched the highlights and we created two excellent chances in the first half, which being right behind the net I hadn’t realised 

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

If we hadn't been creating very good chances, and maybe not even had a shot on goal until we scored say, then I'd think we were lucky. But actually we were unlucky with our finishing and we created some very good chances, so yes we'd be able to pull it off against other teams (not better - who do you mean?).

By better teams, I mean the teams I quoted that are all better than Port Vale.

I didn't say we were lucky, I said we found a way to win.

I know we created some good chances but we also gave the ball away too easily too often. Better opposition might well have punished us.

[Tamworthram]

2 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Port vale not having a game Saturday made a big difference but second half we were excellent attacking wise - I just watched the highlights and we created two excellent chances in the first half, which being right behind the net I hadn’t realised 

I agree, attacking wise in the second half we were very good but, I’m surprised if anyone thought we played well throughout (first half and second half. Defending and attacking). You can only beat the team you are playing and, as I say, we found a way to win but, I fear better opposition might well have punished us for the less than good parts of our play. All I’m saying is that I think we might well have to play better than last night to avoid defeat against the better teams we still have to play away from home.

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, ram59 said:

I was just using Accrington because they have the lowest gates. I was trying to say that any business plan would have to be unique to each club, taking into account overheads and income or turnover. You're saying turnover shouldn't be part of the thinking, which can't be right. Pride Park and our training ground cost more to run than theirs, so that would also be a consideration.

A club like Accrington's turnover is a tiny fraction of Derby's, it would be irresponsible to give them a business plan including an identical budget for players'wages. I would imagine that even our restricted wages budget is 2 or 3 times higher than their turnover.

As another poster has said, the restrictions are a punishment.

For the EFL to turn round and say your punishment doesnt have to be so bad because your turnover is high completely defeats the object of the punishment.

 

 

[angieram]

2 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I agree, attacking wise in the second half we were very good but, I’m surprised if anyone thought we played well throughout (first half and second half. Defending and attacking). You can only beat the team you are playing and, as I say, we found a way to win but, I fear better opposition might well have punished us for the less than good parts of our play. All I’m saying is that I think we might well have to play better than last night to avoid defeat against the better teams we still have to play away from 

11 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Port vale not having a game Saturday made a big difference but second half we were excellent attacking wise - I just watched the highlights and we created two excellent chances in the first half, which being right behind the net I hadn’t realised 

 

And we were missing two key defenders. 

So, the teams we have to face may be stronger than Port Vale, but our team will likely be stronger, too.

[Sparkle]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

As another poster has said, the restrictions are a punishment.

For the EFL to turn round and say your punishment doesnt have to be so bad because your turnover is high completely defeats the object of the punishment.

 

 

Currently the punishment is not hurting us - it’s probably bonded the team we have 

[Tamworthram]

Just now, angieram said:

And we were missing two key defenders. 

So, the teams we have to face may be stronger than Port Vale, but our team will likely be stronger, too.

Quite possibly but who knows if we might be missing a key player or two when we play those other teams?

Look, I’m not meaning to knock the team too much for last night s performance. We can’t expect to play well every game, every team has an off day or two, and we found a way to win.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Currently the punishment is not hurting us - it’s probably bonded the team we have 

Which goes back to my original point, that we are not really under the massive restrictions some would have others believe.

[angieram]

Just now, Tamworthram said:

Quite possibly but who knows if we might be missing a key player or two when we play those other teams?

Look, I’m not meaning to knock the team too much for last night s performance. We can’t expect to play well every game, every team has an off day or two, and we found a way to win.

You make out we were getting played off the park. 

We were struggling a bit in midfield on a bobbly pitch,  and with their antics, but we were still creating good chances and they really didn't have that many themselves. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

31 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

By better teams, I mean the teams I quoted that are all better than Port Vale.

I didn't say we were lucky, I said we found a way to win.

I know we created some good chances but we also gave the ball away too easily too often. Better opposition might well have punished us.

Different or better opposition could/will approach the game in different ways though, right? Meaning we could realistically be more or less effective against them. And the pitch was something of a leveller last night. 
Finding ways to win when you’re not at your best is an old cliche about successful teams and I find old cliches tend to exist for good reasons. We won’t go through the rest of the season unbeaten, but if we carry on the way we are I can see momentum staying with us and it being a mostly enjoyable few months

Edited January 25, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[PistoldPete]

5 hours ago, Vimto Enjoyer said:

If the information provided by SalarySport (https://salarysport.com/about-us/) is correct (nb. it's likely not, but probably provides a fair relative estimate), then we have the second highest wage budget in the league, despite the cap set by the EFL.

The wage cap is meant to be 80% of turnover. I would be fairly sure our turnover is more than £10million. So our cap must be lower than everyone else in percentage terms. 

[PistoldPete]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

As another poster has said, the restrictions are a punishment.

For the EFL to turn round and say your punishment doesnt have to be so bad because your turnover is high completely defeats the object of the punishment.

 

 

The additional punishment ( on top of the 21 point deduction) is only meant to be if you pay creditors less than 25%. Which we didn’t. 
 

the rest of it is supposed to be a business plan. And no business plan can possibly ignore a Company turnover. 

[Tamworthram]

Just now, angieram said:

You make out we were getting played off the park. 

We were struggling a bit in midfield on a bobbly pitch,  and with their antics, but we were still creating good chances and they really didn't have that many themselves. 

who said anything about being played off the park? We weren’t great at times (surely no one can deny that) against an average team and all I’m saying is that teams better than Port Vale might well have punished us. So, to avoid defeat against the better teams, we’d need to return to the form we have seen in some of our other games. I’m not sure what antics you are referring to that other teams don’t also resort to at times but the quality of the pitch could be valid point. 
 

I seem to have touched a nerve with some when, essentially, all I was saying is that last night wasn’t one of our better performances. A performance that was enough to beat Port Vale but might not be good enough to win away at the likes of Barnsley, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday.

[RoyMac5]

46 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

By better teams, I mean the teams I quoted that are all better than Port Vale.

I didn't say we were lucky, I said we found a way to win.

I know we created some good chances but we also gave the ball away too easily too often. Better opposition might well have punished us.

You suggest then that we never give the ball away normally? Or consider that it was the way Port Vale played that caused this.

So what did you mean by finding a way to win? Scoring goals? Well yes.

Perhaps we find a way to win in lots of games?

[Tamworthram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

You suggest then that we never give the ball away normally? Or consider that it was the way Port Vale played that caused this.

So what did you mean by finding a way to win? Scoring goals? Well yes.

Perhaps we find a way to win in lots of games?

How on earth did you arrive at assumption that I think we never give the ball away? Who said it was the way PV played that may have caused it last night? 
 

All I’m saying is I don’t think we played that well throughout the game last night. No shame in that. Every team has an off day from time to time. If we have an off day against better opposition that Port Vale then we may well come unstuck and fail to avoid defeat for the rest of the season.

I’m not sure what’s so controversial about that unless you think we played well last night.

[Brammie Steve]

If anyone deserved to see their injury time shot go in off the crossbar it was Dobbin last night!

What a performance!

What a player!

COYR!

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

All I’m saying is I don’t think we played that well throughout the game last night. No shame in that. Every team has an off day from time to time.

And as I said, there's a difference between being off and creating nothing (a worry) and being off and missing lots of chances. One might mean there'd be trouble against top of this league teams the other suggests that with a change of luck we'd be fine.

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

By better teams, I mean the teams I quoted that are all better than Port Vale.

I didn't say we were lucky, I said we found a way to win.

I know we created some good chances but we also gave the ball away too easily too often. Better opposition might well have punished us.

I don't think we were brilliant, but you can't really look at things that way. We weren't brilliant, but us struggling against one side doesn't mean we will against another. We recently beat Bolton and Barnsley in the cup and took a point against Wednesday.

Additionally, Port Vale has been a bogey side for a lot of the better teams in our league. They held Bolton and Barnsley to a draw, Wednesday needed a wonder goal to beat them 1-0 at their place, Ipswich had a hard fought 3-2 victory and they beat Plymouth at their ground. They aren't a bad team by any stretch. It was a big result.