5 penalties given away in 3 games. Is this a record?

[sage]

Discuss

[uttoxram75]

EFL

[May Contain Nuts]

in a way, yes, in a way no.

We haven't experienced League One refs for, well, a lot longer than Forest have.

s*** decisions do come with the territory, but at the same time as much as I hate the argument "if you give the ref an opportunity, it's your fault" and the way it excuses unfair decisions where you've actually taken the ball perfectly, if you face 2 or 3 of these knife-edge decisions every game, you're clearly doing something wrong.

[uttoxram75]

27 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

in a way, yes, in a way no.

We haven't experienced League One refs for, well, a lot longer than Forest have.

s*** decisions do come with the territory, but at the same time as much as I hate the argument "if you give the ref an opportunity, it's your fault" and the way it excuses unfair decisions where you've actually taken the ball perfectly, if you face 2 or 3 of these knife-edge decisions every game, you're clearly doing something wrong.

The refs have been told not to favour Derby which automatically tells them to do the opposite.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Our player's are making really stupid, unnecessary lunges in the penalty area so little surprise the penalty count is so high.

Was always told that having to lunge or dive in is a last resort in the art of defending so not sure in Warnes coaching team who is encouraging this behaviour rather than coach our player's to hold defenders up instead.

Something has to give as this just isn't sustainable.

[Guest]

Some of the pens have been dubious to say the least but interesting to see who’s been giving them away:

Barkhuizen (not a pen, but definitely not a natural in his own box)

Hourihane (ridiculous handball)

Bird (something and nothing, normally not given without 10 mins of VAR replays and the decision would have brought football into disrepute 50+ years ago)

Davies (clumsy)

McGoldrick (looked like Bird’s one to me)

 

On the whole then I think the major issue has been very generous refereeing, but given that only one alleged offence was committed by a defensive player, maybe the rest of the team need to revisit their Defending 101 class?

 

As to the question of whether it’s a record: don’t know, but Brighton conceded 4 in this match alone:

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/07/brighton-crystal-palace-five-penalties

 

[Carnero]

s*** referees

s*** assistants

[Ellafella]

8 minutes ago, Carnero said:

s*** referees

s*** assistants

That's the reason. ^. 

When I did my ref's course, I was advised by very experienced referees that if there is any doubt you don't give it. In the last 3 games we have seen clear doubtful penalties given; purely and simply down to poor refs and assistants. Too busy thinking about their ear-piece and the colour of their shirt and insufficient thinking about what's in front of them.  

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

That's the reason. ^. 

When I did my ref's course, I was advised by very experienced referees that if there is any doubt you don't give it. In the last 3 games we have seen clear doubtful penalties given; purely and simply down to poor refs and assistants. Too busy thinking about their ear-piece and the colour of their shirt and insufficient thinking about what's in front of them.  

Definitely. Very dubious quality of refereeing. How do their no8 not get sent or even booked for that horrible lunge/stamp on Smith? Rubbish ref. Easier to favour the home team as well.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Definitely. Very dubious quality of refereeing. How do their no8 not get sent or even booked for that horrible lunge/stamp on Smith? Rubbish ref. Easier to favour the home team as well.

The ref last night was poor. It does happen without VAR that tackles as bad as that one go unseen sometimes (unfortunately because it was a straight red offence) but what irked me more was when Burns took out Barkhuizen but then another Ipswich player (Evans?) appeared to be hurt by Barkhuizen’s fall. It was almost as if this distracted the ref and he took no action against Burns. A minute or two later he books Smith for the same sort of offence!

[Rich84]

Biggest surprise for me, I think you typically see a single penalty given by the assistant in a season, we've had one against in each of the last 3 games, 3 times a ref hasn't deemed it a pen, IMO 3 times that looked questionable, I do agree in a sense with @uttoxram75 in that there may be unconcious bias because of the headlines weve had for the last 2 years.

Now I'm expecting every opposition manager to highlight these and go down a lot in our box, looking to pressure the assistant and not the ref when you do

Edited October 22, 2022 by Rich84

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

That's the reason. ^. 

When I did my ref's course, I was advised by very experienced referees that if there is any doubt you don't give it. In the last 3 games we have seen clear doubtful penalties given; purely and simply down to poor refs and assistants. Too busy thinking about their ear-piece and the colour of their shirt and insufficient thinking about what's in front of them.  

You are probably better placed to explain: why did the assistant take so long to flag for the alleged penalty last night?

Surely from his angle he could see there was no advantage to wait for and if it’s a foul then it’s a pen(?)

Have they changed the rules/guidance?

[sage]

54 minutes ago, jameso said:

You are probably better placed to explain: why did the assistant take so long to flag for the alleged penalty last night?

Surely from his angle he could see there was no advantage to wait for and if it’s a foul then it’s a pen(?)

Have they changed the rules/guidance?

They now talk to each other via mikes then the lino flags to let the crowd know the decision. 

Effectively the lino is running the decision by the ref but the delay looks like indecision to the crowd. 

I must admit I thought it was a foul straight away last night. 

[Ellafella]

50 minutes ago, jameso said:

You are probably better placed to explain: why did the assistant take so long to flag for the alleged penalty last night?

Surely from his angle he could see there was no advantage to wait for and if it’s a foul then it’s a pen(?)

Have they changed the rules/guidance?

Very pertinent point @jameso . 5 penalties given against in 3 games is so statistically unlikely it is highly indicative of a significant causal factor behind it: I'm not suggesting a conspiracy though it's possible; more likely to be "cockup".

Aganist Port Vale, for the first penalty there was what seemed like a 3 minute discussion between the ref and asst. In the SW upper, I had a clear view - the chap dived - Barks had withdrawn his leg before the player decided to go down: my decision would have been - FK to Derby and book the forward for simulation formerly known as diving and cheating. 

As you say, if it's a penalty it takes 3 seconds to decide and blow the whistle.

I suspect that with the advent of VAR, even though we don't have it in League 1 {please let it stay that way - spend the ££ on training better refs} there is now a predilection for refs and assts to go through a discussion via their gadget, to make it look like a "reasoned decision" that has been arrived at by a consideration of various factors like the position of the forward, the closeness of the moon to the Sun, the constellation of the Great Bear, something like:

Ref: Lino, was that a pen?

Lino: I dunno...might be...

Ref: did the defender foul the forward?

Lino: errmmm...not sure...I was a bit----ermmm---unsighted

Ref: .............................ping! Penalty! 

Crowd: You don't know what yer doin'! you don't know etc ?

 

 

[Ellafella]

5 minutes ago, sage said:

They now talk to each other via mikes then the lino flags to let the crowd know the decision. 

Effectively the lino is running the decision by the ref but the delay looks like indecision to the crowd. 

I must admit I thought it was a foul straight away last night. 

Yes...it was. 

[Carnero]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Easier to favour the home team as well.

Except when we're at home.

I don't believe in conspiracies but it's getting ridiculous now. 

[Carnero]

2 hours ago, jameso said:

You are probably better placed to explain: why did the assistant take so long to flag for the alleged penalty last night?

Because he didn't think it was a penalty until he changed his mind to appease the baying mob directly behind him.

[CBRammette]

2 hours ago, jameso said:

You are probably better placed to explain: why did the assistant take so long to flag for the alleged penalty last night?

Surely from his angle he could see there was no advantage to wait for and if it’s a foul then it’s a pen(?)

Have they changed the rules/guidance?

Simple totally influenced by the crowd. Not given then the noise was intense. Well played!

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Except when we're at home.

I don't believe in conspiracies but it's getting ridiculous now. 

It seems opinion is divided on whether the McGoldrick one should have been given (quite a few calling it a foul, but also a common view that the fans helped persuade the lino to call it... eventually!)

Assuming it was legit though, that would make 3 of the 5 penalty decisions correct (4 if we're allowing Bird's "foul" at Accrington which didn't look a pen to me), which is still abject in terms of bad defensive play.

There was a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest the Port Vale ref had his own agenda: wanting to get himself back on Vale's Christmas Card list before they start sending them out.

Beyond that, there may be a conspiracy, but I'm not sure the recent spate of penalty awards against us is the smoking gun. The general tendency for bad decisions could be a clue... or it's just that the officials at this level are diabolical and it will eventually even itself out (? - here's hoping!)

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, sage said:

They now talk to each other via mikes then the lino flags to let the crowd know the decision. 

Effectively the lino is running the decision by the ref but the delay looks like indecision to the crowd. 

 

I've no idea how factual that is (and cba to google it), but it sounds very plausible.  Gullible or not, it makes perfect sense to me.  I for one am happy to accept that as fact, and thank you for the info.

 

... It also makes all those complaining about delays/indecisions etc look a tad foolish, as that wasn't the case at all. 
This is why I rarely comment on such details, as I too don't know what I'm talking about! ?