Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[Curtains]

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2022/09/interview-shaun-barker-gives-his-verdict-following-appointment-of-paul-warne

 

Worth listening to Barks on this appointment 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Curtains
Added

[Ram-Alf]

11 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

For what it is worth.

I have a life long friend, who is now retired, but in his working life had connections to both Rotherham and Derby plus several other clubs in the Midlands, Yorkshire and Lancashire. He is a Derby season ticket holder now and I meet him at every home game. I met him before the Wycombe game and we never discussed the managerial situation at all.

On Wednesday, when the news broke about Warne and Rosenior, he texted me verbatim the following:

'Hi - message I had last Thursday but didn't believe it !!'

The Thursday message verbatim was:

'Evening, I have have just had a call from a source closely connected to Paul Warne of Rotherham and he was told that he has signed a contract to be Rams manager. Obviously this is out of the blue and in some respects beggars belief.'

I watched the players appreciation of the crowd at the end of the Wycombe game but I did not pick up on the observation of many that LR applauded all four sides of the ground. Many interpreted it as a parting gesture. Because of my lifelong relationship with my friend and the trust we have between us I fully believe the context of his message to me.

While I would loosely interpret that two or three days before the Wycombe game, but soon after the Lincoln defeat, Paul Warne had not signed a contract with Derby County, but had probably reached an agreement to join them, subject to a suitable agreement between the two clubs, then Liam Rosenior will probably have been aware that he would not be the permanent manager before we played Wycombe.

Cheers Brailsford for that

My inkling was as you say, A goodbye from LR, Plus this seemed to be too quick to complete within the timeframe given, DCFC given permission to talk to Warne and deal done soon after

The Lincoln game being the catalyst to LRs relieving of Interim Manager, My thinking is this, DC saw enough in that particular game with the players we had that LRs approach doesn't suit this division, He's taken the Bull by the Horns and decided we need a change now, Not Xmas, Timing was crucial with the international break.

For me It's right what DC has done, Warne may or may not be a success, But the way we were set up to play especially away from home with the players at hand shows LR isn't getting the best out of what we have.

Plus strange that he should change his formation for the WW game when countless times he's on record saying he's happy with keep ball, Substitutes in the 2nd half swung the balance of play ?

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

25 minutes ago, Curtains said:

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2022/09/interview-shaun-barker-gives-his-verdict-following-appointment-of-paul-warne

 

Worth listening to Barks on this appointment 

I was already excited about his appointment but listening to somebody that knows him well, we’ve just poached the best person that we could to take us forward. 

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

I was already excited about his appointment but listening to somebody that knows him well, we’ve just poached the best person that we could to take us forward. 

Time will tell.

[Andicis]

Genuine question to people who are criticising Paul Warne for his style of play, how many of Rotherham's league one fixtures did you watch? And how many Championship ones not involving Derby? I feel like it's become a bit of an easy one to throw out there without justifying yourself why you don't like his style of football. 

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2022/09/interview-shaun-barker-gives-his-verdict-following-appointment-of-paul-warne

 

Worth listening to Barks on this appointment 

Find this really encouraging given how well Barker knows him. Barker picks his words very carefully but always says what he thinks .  Wonder if Warne spoke to him before jumping 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Genuine question to people who are criticising Paul Warne for his style of play, how many of Rotherham's league one fixtures did you watch? And how many Championship ones not involving Derby? I feel like it's become a bit of an easy one to throw out there without justifying yourself why you don't like his style of football. 

Warne leaves Rotherham as a legend in that part of the world. He has been an integral part of their coaching staff for 10 years since retiring as a player and it seems he was reluctant and unsure of his credentials when he was asked to step up to the hot-seat in 2017. But what a success he has been ever since; the two relegations were expected and came as no surprise given the resources he had at his disposal but he made a fist of the fight in both seasons. The expectations at Derby are very different but he is obviously up for the challenge ahead.

I'm really warmed about what I have read about the guy since he was appointed. I recall going to Rotherham and losing 1-0 early in the Lampard season. Lampard was sent to the stands that day after marching down the touchline to confront a linesman. But Warne out-thought Lampard in that match and Rotherham out-fought Derby. Warne was up and down the touchline, kicking and heading every ball with his players (we paid them back with a 6-1 home win towards the end of the season).

I don't know if Warne is one-dimensional or not; we'll find out in the coming weeks but if he is then his one dimension is a recipe for success in this division at least. I think that given the greater resources at his disposal here as opposed to what he had at Rotherham, may give him the chance to develop alternative playing strategies that he never had available to him before; we shall see.

I was an advocate of giving Rosenior until Christmas to see how things developed. I welcomed his appointment because I think we needed some continuity after the takeover and I think his recruitment exceeded my expectations. But the Plymouth and Lincoln defeats were a bit of a wake-up call for me. Liam, at this stage of his development, seemed a bit one-dimensional himself and a change in the system was needed quickly for it became horribly apparent that every team in this Division was now suddenly aware of how to counter Derby County's possession game.

David Clowes had a choice to make as whether to stay with Liam or not; he chose to go with Warne. I hope that Liam wants to stay as part of the coaching team and that Warne wants him on board because everything that Rosenior has done for our club has been positive and I think he has a long future ahead of him in coaching and management. I think this week's change has been made for the benefit of the club's immediate progress and I hope it works.

[kevinhectoring]

Liam Rosenior ——-> oi, normaliser

Paul Warne ———> u warplane !

so it looks like a good move 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

...David Clowes had a choice to make as whether to stay with Liam or not; he chose to go with Warne. I hope that Liam wants to stay as part of the coaching team and that Warne wants him on board because everything that Rosenior has done for our club has been positive and I think he has a long future ahead of him in coaching and management. I think this week's change has been made for the benefit of the club's immediate progress and I hope it works.

Personally I hope Liam moves on. As Rooney 'said' a clean sweep is needed. I think Rosenior should move on out of 'this comfort zone' and try new things.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Did somebody post a link to a team talk Warne did whilst at Rotherham? I can’t find it and was hoping somebody would be kind enough to share the link if they have it. 

[Curtains]

11 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Did somebody post a link to a team talk Warne did whilst at Rotherham? I can’t find it and was hoping somebody would be kind enough to share the link if they have it. 

Was it this 

 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Personally I hope Liam moves on. As Rooney 'said' a clean sweep is needed. I think Rosenior should move on out of 'this comfort zone' and try new things.

I think that's a good point for his own development perhaps. It had occurred to me that he's now in a similar position to Roy McFarland in 1984 when Arthur Cox was appointed. McFarland was minded to move on and he had been successful as the manager at Bradford City previously. But Arthur persuaded him to stay as his assistant. I've often thought that Roy might have been more successful as a manager if he'd gone his own way at the time.

[brady1993]

2 hours ago, Andicis said:

Genuine question to people who are criticising Paul Warne for his style of play, how many of Rotherham's league one fixtures did you watch? And how many Championship ones not involving Derby? I feel like it's become a bit of an easy one to throw out there without justifying yourself why you don't like his style of football. 

I'll hold my hand up and say I haven't and it's a fair challenge 

I'm going off what I can remember against us. And the bits and pieces you can find online. The picture you get is someone who's pragmatic, low risks at the back, sets up for the opposition, isn't interested in keeping the ball at all and encourages being direct on the ball (albeit not necessarily route 1) all of which is similar to someone like Rowett. The major difference from Rowett would be Warne seems to favour a very aggressive press off the ball.

So I think the key themes will be trying to win the ball back quickly,  getting the ball into the box quickly through whatever means and taking no risks on the ball at the back. It probably won't be the worst to watch as it will likely be very high energy but it won't be the best to watch either and will likely be fairly basic in how we attack.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

29 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Was it this 

 

Yes @Curtains thank you ?

[Andicis]

22 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I'll hold my hand up and say I haven't and it's a fair challenge 

I'm going off what I can remember against us. And the bits and pieces you can find online. The picture you get is someone who's pragmatic, low risks at the back, sets up for the opposition, isn't interested in keeping the ball at all and encourages being direct on the ball (albeit not necessarily route 1) all of which is similar to someone like Rowett. The major difference from Rowett would be Warne seems to favour a very aggressive press off the ball.

So I think the key themes will be trying to win the ball back quickly,  getting the ball into the box quickly through whatever means and taking no risks on the ball at the back. It probably won't be the worst to watch as it will likely be very high energy but it won't be the best to watch either and will likely be fairly basic in how we attack.

From research I've done post appointment, it seems he sets up his teams to dominate significantly more when looking at League One level than in the Championship. Which does present the question whether it's related to personnel and how he believes it's best to get results with limited quality in his squads. 

I do think that his Championship style with a squad that was an underdog in every single game has helped people set opinions on him that may not be true when looking at how he has played on an equal footing in League One. 

[Jimbo Ram]

26 minutes ago, Andicis said:

From research I've done post appointment, it seems he sets up his teams to dominate significantly more when looking at League One level than in the Championship. Which does present the question whether it's related to personnel and how he believes it's best to get results with limited quality in his squads. 

I do think that his Championship style with a squad that was an underdog in every single game has helped people set opinions on him that may not be true when looking at how he has played on an equal footing in League One. 

He will be judged on results not style so only time will tell. I think he needs to be given the season as we can’t go back to changing our Manager every 5 minutes.

[brady1993]

Just now, Andicis said:

From research I've done post appointment, it seems he sets up his teams to dominate significantly more when looking at League One level than in the Championship. Which does present the question whether it's related to personnel and how he believes it's best to get results with limited quality in his squads. 

I do think that his Championship style with a squad that was an underdog in every single game has helped people set opinions on him that may not be true when looking at how he has played on an equal footing in League One. 

This could very much be true but historically I find how a manager approaches setting up with limited resources is more or less how they will with better resources. 

Broadly speaking managers are on a spectrum from purist to pragmatic and they pretty much stay at that point because its based on how they think about the game. The former typically is about developing a footballing ethos and style at a club. You play a certain way, you recruit for that, how you set up is largely the same game in game out and you trust that over time you will win more in the long term. The latter is more about winning the next game without much longer considerations, its about first and foremost staying solid, you try to counter the opposition and readily adapt to them then score if you can usually through individual quality, set pieces or counter attacking. Generally the former option is more entertaining.

From what I can see Warne is more on the pragmatic side for better or worse but possibly not as much as somebody like Rowett.

[mwram1973]

4 hours ago, Andicis said:

Genuine question to people who are criticising Paul Warne for his style of play, how many of Rotherham's league one fixtures did you watch? And how many Championship ones not involving Derby? I feel like it's become a bit of an easy one to throw out there without justifying yourself why you don't like his style of football. 

Surely that's blatantly obvious.

We play like Man city, any other way of playing is beneath us as we are absolutely smashing these little league one teams..........oh, hang on.

[Andicis]

8 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

This could very much be true but historically I find how a manager approaches setting up with limited resources is more or less how they will with better resources. 

Broadly speaking managers are on a spectrum from purist to pragmatic and they pretty much stay at that point because its based on how they think about the game. The former typically is about developing a footballing ethos and style at a club. You play a certain way, you recruit for that, how you set up is largely the same game in game out and you trust that over time you will win more in the long term. The latter is more about winning the next game without much longer considerations, its about first and foremost staying solid, you try to counter the opposition and readily adapt to them then score if you can usually through individual quality, set pieces or counter attacking. Generally the former option is more entertaining.

From what I can see Warne is more on the pragmatic side for better or worse but possibly not as much as somebody like Rowett.

But going back to what you said in your first reply, you haven't watched Warne's sides in League One. And only a limited few times in the Championship. Is it feasible, with League One standard players, to play possession football? I don't think so. They don't have enough quality on the ball. Is it feasible, in a Championship side with a quarter of the budget of the top sides to set up to dominate? I don't think so.

His management style reflects the position he was in. But he wasn't sitting back in League One and purely countering. His sides were very good and were often in control of games. 

I think this is an overly simplistic way of looking at management styles, and generalises far too much. 

[nottingram]

4 hours ago, Andicis said:

Genuine question to people who are criticising Paul Warne for his style of play, how many of Rotherham's league one fixtures did you watch? And how many Championship ones not involving Derby? I feel like it's become a bit of an easy one to throw out there without justifying yourself why you don't like his style of football. 

Admittedly I have not made a habit of watching Rotherham games, and, in truth, don’t really mind what style of football we play as long as we have an identity that the whole club works towards, but do think that the more sophisticated your style, the more likely it is that it will translate positively the further up the leagues you go. Now how it translates isn’t so much of an issue at the moment but by giving Warne a 4 year contract you have to assume the hope is it will be something that was considered.

My concern is mostly that in their last two full ish (2019/20 season curtailed after 34 games) seasons at this level, Rotherham have averaged 0.775 goals from open play per game. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself but ideally you would not base a team around scoring from set pieces, in my opinion. Especially as I don’t see too many in our squad I would expect to be getting 5-6 goals in a season from them. We only have one serious CB who is 6ft plus so can we rely on them? I’m not so sure.

I hope I’m wrong, I am warming to Warne based on what I see and hear but I’m just not sure how well that translates.