Style of football

[TomTom92]

What makes an entertaining side?

Is entertainment dictated by the end result?

I ask both of these questions after looking back at the last 10 seasons or so and debating which manager's philosophies i agree with and which managers i dislike.

Mac - I think I speak for 99% of this forum when I say Mc1's football was paradise. Free flowing, high scoring, never say die football that got us within a freak result away from the promised land. Notably Mc2 was never quite the same as before as during our initial good form it was through just having the knack of winning other than blowing teams out the water.

Clough - Slow and steady and just as you thought we would kick on we'd have a bad set of results and any optimism would drain away. We also had a bad habit of going 3-0 up and having other teams pants down only to sit back, invite pressure and make games a lot tighter and nerve inducing than they needed to be. That said, Cloughie knew how to beat Leeds and Forest and them results can cover a lot of cracks. 

Pearson - Just had a nightmare, tried changing things too quickly and alienated the illuminati of players that had Mels's ear.

Clement - Found his style very boring. Once the wheels came off he had no way of saving the day and i believe Darren Bent has since alluded that the dressing room was lost once more.

Wassall- Will always be remembered for the Rotherham result and the first leg against Hull. But actually other than them two results he did a good job of bringing the old guard close to Mac1's tenure. Not sure uncle Harry lurking in the background did him many favours in the long run.

Rowett - One of my favourite seasons despite the hate he gets on here. For saying we played negative counter attack football we actually scored at a good rate until February. I'm adamant to this day that if Lookman had chosen us over Leipzig we'd have gone up. That said the second leg at Fulham we somewhat faded with a whisper and his transfer policy was very short sighted. 

Lampard - A thoroughly enjoyable season. We could go 3-0 down and i'd still have the belief that we could get a result. Highlights include Man Utd, Norwich, Rotherham at home and Leeds. In the end he messed up the line up at Wembley and we were beaten by the better team on the day. 

Cocu - Was thrown in at the deep end and looked to play the 'right way'. His football bored me to tears and as far as i'm concerned he stuck around like a bad smell for 10 games too many. I'm getting PTSD from thinking how frustrated i got watching his team play.

Rooney - Tactically questionable, but did the best he could last season. Was fortunate to have both Ebosele and Ebiowei emerge at the same time which definitely gave us some excitement. Felt like we could beat anyone at home. Unfortunately our away form was shocking.

Rosenior - Had a tough assignment but for me his philosophy is too close to Cocu. I'm not bothered how we win games this season as long as we win. Hope to be proven wrong but fear that we may be treading water for 2 seasons before LR goes and EFL restrictions are lifted. 

The table:

Mac1

Lampard

Rowett

Wassall

Rooney

Mac2

Clough

Clement

Rosenior

Cocu

Pearson

To summarise I enjoy fast free scoring football as much as the next man. But i value getting the win over anything else. Don't care about philosophies, whats right, or who's nice i just want to finish most saturdays with that winning buzz. Maybe supporting Derby is a bad idea...

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by TomTom92

[alram]

good football gets you out your feet

 

i am really not a fan of possession football in general. only the very best do it well, eveyrbody else is a snooze fest tribute act.

Edited September 14, 2022 by alram

[Jubbs]

I honestly don't understand what our fans want.

People have been naming the likes of Warnock/McCarthy, which is Rowettball on steroids, yet the majority of our fans complained about the football we played under Rowett.

[Day]

22 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

What makes an entertaining side?

Is entertainment dictated by the end result?

Some will tell you it's not about the style of play, they want to watch entertaining football.

Yet if we lose, well, you can't have many before it's not about entertainment, it's about winning.

Truth is, we want it all, style of play and winning games, sure you can have it, but it's harder to build outside the Premier League.

That's another thing, we want to be entertained, winning games, not losing but avoid top flight football.

I've stuck it all in my computer and I think the key is to have 13/14 on repeat and losing at Wembley.

Problem is, those players will want Premier League football, the better they do, the higher they want to play and he paid for it.

[strawhillram]

8 minutes ago, David said:

Some will tell you it's not about the style of play, they want to watch entertaining football.

Yet if we lose, well, you can't have many before it's not about entertainment, it's about winning.

Truth is, we want it all, style of play and winning games, sure you can have it, but it's harder to build outside the Premier League.

That's another thing, we want to be entertained, winning games, not losing but avoid top flight football.

I've stuck it all in my computer and I think the key is to have 13/14 on repeat and losing at Wembley.

Problem is, those players will want Premier League football, the better they do, the higher they want to play and he paid for it.

agree about avoiding premier league

[Anon]

I think that's a reasonable summation of most of those managers, but in my opinion it's way more complicated than simply walking in and stamping your identity and the way you want to play on a team. Good, passing football is truly a joy to behold, but you have to earn the right to do it. I am absolutely adamant that were it not for the careful building and instillation of virtues like hard work and stoicism done by Clough there is no way McClaren could've come in and do what he did.

Obviously, everyone has different opinions, but I can't fathom how Clough can be so far down your list. I really enjoyed his tenure. Don't get me wrong, he was incredibly frustrating. Your point about us always managing to go on a dreadful run just when it looked like things were clicking is particularly pertinent. I wonder if Clough regrets binning off Kuqi in favour or Luke Moore?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

12 minutes ago, David said:

Some will tell you it's not about the style of play, they want to watch entertaining football.

Yet if we lose, well, you can't have many before it's not about entertainment, it's about winning.

Truth is, we want it all, style of play and winning games, sure you can have it, but it's harder to build outside the Premier League.

That's another thing, we want to be entertained, winning games, not losing but avoid top flight football.

I've stuck it all in my computer and I think the key is to have 13/14 on repeat and losing at Wembley.

Problem is, those players will want Premier League football, the better they do, the higher they want to play and he paid for it.

I can't understand the not wanting top flight football.  I understand it's not much fun if your not competing at all but most clubs can.  Not sure if the 07/08 season has done that much damage those who only had that season there can't compute it but we've been there a lot and on the whole we've been a good side at regular periods.

[VulcanRam]

Go back a bit more and you come to Billy Davies. Football wasn't great, we won loads of games without ever knowing quite how, and got promoted. Entertaining? Perhaps, sometimes, mostly nerve wracking and a bit head scratching though. Successful? 100% 

I'd take that again this season. 

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I can't understand the not wanting top flight football.  I understand it's not much fun if your not competing at all but most clubs can.  Not sure if the 07/08 season has done that much damage those who only had that season there can't compute it but we've been there a lot and on the whole we've been a good side at regular periods.

Me neither. 

Yet I was hammered for wanting it.

I do wonder if everyone is still enjoying League 1 now the reality has kicked in that this will be no walk in the park.

[Carl Sagan]

Some good thoughts in the OP. My table (with bold for the changes):

Mac1

Lampard

Mac2

Rowett

Wassall

Clough

Clement

Rooney

Rosenior

Cocu

Pearson

 

I detest mucking about at the back for its own sake. I hate ponderous football. I don't like creating a mentality in which a player's first thought is backwards. I hate it when midfielders come back into defence to collect the ball off defenders, when they should be further up the pitch.

I love attacking at pace. I love players taking the initiative with a quick freekick or throw-in keeping opponents off guard. I like clever attacking set pieces. I want players to do everything to score a goal, to want to shoot and drive forward. I love to see élan all over the pitch, players playing with a smile on their face, a whirlwind of fast movement with both players and ball. A team should have at least as many attack-minded players on the field as defensive-minded players. Their first thought should be forwards. They try things and take risks to score a goal. I like pressing your opponents high as a team and winning the ball back in the dangerous part of the pitch. I like to see variety, continually wrong-footing opponents by sometimes running with the ball, sometimes passing it, going long or playing short, attacking down the wings and through the centre - always having options.

Is that too much to ask? 

[vonwright]

Generally I think the teams people enjoy watching play a high tempo, high pressing with creative movement and passing. 

We don't really press, our tempo isn't high and I'm not sure how creative our passing has been - tends to be quite cautious and predictable. The kind of possession football we play isn't great to watch, because it doesn't seem to go anywhere. 

I'd like to think we could adapt our style but I'm not sure we have the legs to be a pressing side, which is a problem for me, at least in terms of scoring goals. 

[vonwright]

I can also quite understand why people go for a more cautious counter-attacking style at this level (and above). Fans say they want to watch good football but, more than that, they want to win. Ideally they want both, but in reality they want the latter more than the former. 

BD took us to the Premier League playing cautious, counter attacking football.

Edited September 14, 2022 by vonwright

[TomTom92]

28 minutes ago, Anon said:

I think that's a reasonable summation of most of those managers, but in my opinion it's way more complicated than simply walking in and stamping your identity and the way you want to play on a team. Good, passing football is truly a joy to behold, but you have to earn the right to do it. I am absolutely adamant that were it not for the careful building and instillation of virtues like hard work and stoicism done by Clough there is no way McClaren could've come in and do what he did.

Obviously, everyone has different opinions, but I can't fathom how Clough can be so far down your list. I really enjoyed his tenure. Don't get me wrong, he was incredibly frustrating. Your point about us always managing to go on a dreadful run just when it looked like things were clicking is particularly pertinent. I wonder if Clough regrets binning off Kuqi in favour or Luke Moore?

Agreed that I may have done Clough dirty. I certainly think he did a good job which is not the case for everyone else below him. 
 
Think I’ve gone for Rooney above him because of the resilient two fingered displays against the EFL that we put up at home last season. 
 
I do think if we’d have stayed up last season then we would’ve found ourselves in a similar position to how NC joined us. But alas we went down made some decent signings on paper and now there’s an emphasis on us winning and getting promoted asap.

[DavesaRam]

22 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I love attacking at pace. I love players taking the initiative with a quick freekick or throw-in keeping opponents off guard. I like clever attacking set pieces. I want players to do everything to score a goal, to want to shoot and drive forward. I love to see élan all over the pitch, players playing with a smile on their face, a whirlwind of fast movement with both players and ball. A team should have at least as many attack-minded players on the field as defensive-minded players. Their first thought should be forwards. They try things and take risks to score a goal. I like pressing your opponents high as a team and winning the ball back in the dangerous part of the pitch. I like to see variety, continually wrong-footing opponents by sometimes running with the ball, sometimes passing it, going long or playing short, attacking down the wings and through the centre - always having options.

Is that too much to ask? 

In other words, everything teams that beat us are good at.

Edited September 14, 2022 by DavesaRam

[Sparkle]

I don’t actually know what our style of football is, sure I accept last season we had no one up front so booting it long was fairly stupid most of the time but this season there is an obvious difference in standards on the pitch but why are we tippy tappy around at the back to the point where the ball might get to a defensive midfielder who passes it back the way he is facing to the goalkeeper. When we play this season we have a huge hole in the central midfield and the opposition are flooding that area by the second half’s and we get less and less of meaningful ball retention.

[RoyMac5]

32 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I detest mucking about at the back for its own sake. I hate ponderous football. I don't like creating a mentality in which a player's first thought is backwards. I hate it when midfielders come back into defence to collect the ball off defenders, when they should be further up the pitch.

I love attacking at pace. I love players taking the initiative with a quick freekick or throw-in keeping opponents off guard. I like clever attacking set pieces. I want players to do everything to score a goal, to want to shoot and drive forward. I love to see élan all over the pitch, players playing with a smile on their face, a whirlwind of fast movement with both players and ball.

Yet you dropped Rooney down the table and he played Ebosele and Ebiowei? He bought back pride in the Club, made the players believe and did it with both hands tied behind his back. Oh and Allsop shone, he made a big difference.

The table:

Mac1

Rooney

Lampard/Rowett

Mac2

Wassall

Clough

Clement

Rosenior

Cocu

Pearson

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jubbs said:

I honestly don't understand what our fans want.

People have been naming the likes of Warnock/McCarthy, which is Rowettball on steroids, yet the majority of our fans complained about the football we played under Rowett.

At this level in particularly , I want results. There’s no reason why we can’t sh**house the odd result even more so away from home. 

Rowett would be ideal in our current situation. I just think LR has a subtle stubbornness on tactics and personnel, which will be his ultimate downfall if he can’t change. 

[LN747]

Dont mind the style - if the boring style we play now got results id even be happy - but the fact that it is slow and boring means that the oppo can overcome it easily and you wont win or score that many , especially away.

Unless the tactic is to bore the opposition to sleep with your passing then score whilst they snooze:)

Alas in L1 most teams are thinking - who do this lot think they are , coming here , thinking they're Man City of L1,  raise their game and stick it to us

You can sense the cup tie attitude build when teams get on top of us - another issue Liam and team have to contend with - we are everyone's cup final this season

[BondJovi]

3 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

What makes an entertaining side?

Is entertainment dictated by the end result?

I ask both of these questions after looking back at the last 10 seasons or so and debating which manager's philosophies i agree with and which managers i dislike.

Mac - I think I speak for 99% of this forum when I say Mc1's football was paradise. Free flowing, high scoring, never say die football that got us within a freak result away from the promised land. Notably Mc2 was never quite the same as before as during our initial good form it was through just having the knack of winning other than blowing teams out the water. What every other manager in this list is judged against!

Clough - Slow and steady and just as you thought we would kick on we'd have a bad set of results and any optimism would drain away. We also had a bad habit of going 3-0 up and having other teams pants down only to sit back, invite pressure and make games a lot tighter and nerve inducing than they needed to be. That said, Cloughie knew how to beat Leeds and Forest and them results can cover a lot of cracks. Needed to have more belief in what he was doing, far too quick to go to the safety first approach.

Pearson - Just had a nightmare, tried changing things too quickly and alienated the illuminati of players that had Mels's ear.

Clement - Found his style very boring. Once the wheels came off he had no way of saving the day and i believe Darren Bent has since alluded that the dressing room was lost once more. The start of the aimless passing around the back!!

Wassall- Will always be remembered for the Rotherham result and the first leg against Hull. But actually other than them two results he did a good job of bringing the old guard close to Mac1's tenure. Not sure uncle Harry lurking in the background did him many favours in the long run.

Rowett - One of my favourite seasons despite the hate he gets on here. For saying we played negative counter attack football we actually scored at a good rate until February. I'm adamant to this day that if Lookman had chosen us over Leipzig we'd have gone up. That said the second leg at Fulham we somewhat faded with a whisper and his transfer policy was very short sighted.  I really enjoyed some of the games, a very mixed bag though.

Lampard - A thoroughly enjoyable season. We could go 3-0 down and i'd still have the belief that we could get a result. Highlights include Man Utd, Norwich, Rotherham at home and Leeds. In the end he messed up the line up at Wembley and we were beaten by the better team on the day.  On the whole, but those games without Mount we were totally inept.

Cocu - Was thrown in at the deep end and looked to play the 'right way'. His football bored me to tears and as far as i'm concerned he stuck around like a bad smell for 10 games too many. I'm getting PTSD from thinking how frustrated i got watching his team play. I actually thought we had a very entertaining spell post Christmas - Lockdown, broke the club record for scoring in consecutive games.

Rooney - Tactically questionable, but did the best he could last season. Was fortunate to have both Ebosele and Ebiowei emerge at the same time which definitely gave us some excitement. Felt like we could beat anyone at home. Unfortunately our away form was shocking. Also responsible for the worst display of a professional match I have ever witnessed away at Wycombe.

Rosenior - Had a tough assignment but for me his philosophy is too close to Cocu. I'm not bothered how we win games this season as long as we win. Hope to be proven wrong but fear that we may be treading water for 2 seasons before LR goes and EFL restrictions are lifted. Too soon to say.

 

 

Here are our goals scored during this period, in descending order and where we finished. What does it all mean in terms of entertainment?

14/15 - 85 - 8th

13/14 - 84 - 3rd

17/18 - 70 - 6th

18/19 - 69 - 6th

15/16 - 66 - 5th

12/13 - 65 - 10th

19/20 - 62 - 10th

10/11 - 58 - 19th

16/17 - 54 - 9th

09/10 - 53 - 14th

11/12 - 50 - 12th

21/22 - 45 - 18th*

20/21 - 36 - 21st

[Ilsonram12]

28 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

Here are our goals scored during this period, in descending order and where we finished. What does it all mean in terms of entertainment?

14/15 - 85 - 8th

13/14 - 84 - 3rd

17/18 - 70 - 6th

18/19 - 69 - 6th

15/16 - 66 - 5th

12/13 - 65 - 10th

19/20 - 62 - 10th

10/11 - 58 - 19th

16/17 - 54 - 9th

09/10 - 53 - 14th

11/12 - 50 - 12th

21/22 - 45 - 18th*

20/21 - 36 - 21st

That we've seen a steady decrease since 19/20 alas league 1