The Ukraine War

[1of4]

14 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Why has Russia introduced a narrative now about chemical weapons?

If there's deployment of Syrian /Arab fighters on behalf of Russia, should nato intervene....tit for tat

Why is our government such a disgrace about the refugee system. Was it true that "extra home office resources deployed in calais"  turned out to be a couple of junior staff at a table handing out kit kats and crisps? 

Recently Johnson stated that the UK have taken in more refugees than anyone else. Strange that, aren't MP's supposedly not allowed to lie to their fellow MPs in Parliament?

And when questioned every government minister will tell you that the UK will have handed out more KitKats and faster than other country.

[cstand]

Since this thread has descended into people using refugees for their own political  propaganda I will no longer bother reading it.

Edited March 12, 2022 by cstand

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Why has Russia introduced a narrative now about chemical weapons?

If there's deployment of Syrian /Arab fighters on behalf of Russia, should nato intervene....tit for tat

Why is our government such a disgrace about the refugee system. Was it true that "extra home office resources deployed in calais"  turned out to be a couple of junior staff at a table handing out kit kats and crisps? 

Possibly to justify any future use or possibly just another threat and pressure on Zelensky. Russian media is running stories on biolabs in Ukraine. So yeah, it's like chess being playing by a moron

Too many threats being made for Nato to intervene. Russia said it will be a declaration of war. They went down the route of Nato attack - ww3 - ww3 eventually leads to Nuclear war. Of course this is just logical thinking and not at all a threat. Nope. Not a threat at all. Nuh huh. No sir. 

If Nato intervene any more than they have then we have to be prepared to go to war. Britain has to be prepared to go to war with Russia. And this isn't the other side of the world. This is a war that we wouldn't be able to just pick up on the news. It could have huge consequences for every one of us. Should we risk it for Ukraine? 

What do you mean we are a disgrace?

All we're asking is that these Ukranians fleeing their country being bombed into oblivion is that they log in online with all necessary proof of how long they've lived in Ukraine, what family they have here, upload all necessary documents, create an appointment, be up to date on their jabs and then please hold the line you are number... 1,960,836... in the queue. Our operators are currently experiencing technical difficulties and will be with you shortly. 

Anyway, Russia has offered to take them. ?‍♂️

Edited March 12, 2022 by Alpha

[BaaLocks]

16 hours ago, Highgate said:

 There are obviously some Ukrainians, especially in eastern Ukraine that identify with Russia and will be quite happy to go there. For the rest, and that's the majority of Ukraine (as merely speaking Russian is not synonymous with being pro Putin)....seeking refugee status in the country that's invading your homeland, would surely be their last option. 

I don't know, I've never been ten miles from the border when a country invades and been left thinking which is the better option, go into Russia where at least I won't get bombed or try to get across all of Ukraine. It's so easy for us to judge sat in front of our computers but I'm guessing a few shelled local buildings would focus the mind a bit.

[Norman]

Russia have made themselves look so weak. When was the last time a country's image was so radically transformed? They have an ex-special forces president who likes fighting bears and an army of such numbers it was frightening. 

Turns out the president has lost his marbles, those around him are too scared to tell him the truth, their army, full of one-year conscripts, is useless, their armoured vehicles are scrap metal boxes on tracks that fall off. Tactically inept, with an army full of people that do not want to fight, with not enough fuel or food to keep them moving and now their economy is tanking.

They went in thinking the Russian flag would be draped over the front of their tanks. That didn't happen so they started sending in armies to fight in every prominent city. They had problems taking those cities so started bombing airfields, fuel fields, water plants, taking over nuclear power plants to shut off basic amenities. That didn't work so they started bombing civilian buildings as another way of grinding down the Ukrainians. That hasn't worked so they are now bombing anything. 

So where do you go from here? Chemical/bological/nuclear. Do we think Putin wouldn't go that low? Of course he would.

Scary times ahead, I think. We will find out in the next 2 weeks when they actually get to Kyiv which direction this is going to take.

On a different note, I think Western governments will use this current situation to push through Green industries/technologies faster. Thankfully we are ahead of the curve on that. Seems like we are in for quite the inflation rise over the next few years. Which isn't good for an economy built on high borrowing on over-valued housing. 

Another thing Putin got completely wrong was the level and willingness of most countries to stop trading with them and impose sanctions. They're on the way to the Siberian wilderness with a leader who is ducking mental and a population who don't deserve it.

One question I do have though... Say Putin manged to take Kyiv and Ukraine, puts in place a pro-Russian government etc. How the hell will he afford to rebuild and maintain control of such a vast country? That would be enough to floor their economy without sanctions. But with sanctions...... 

[Highgate]

1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

I don't know, I've never been ten miles from the border when a country invades and been left thinking which is the better option, go into Russia where at least I won't get bombed or try to get across all of Ukraine. It's so easy for us to judge sat in front of our computers but I'm guessing a few shelled local buildings would focus the mind a bit.

True...I guess any option is better than staying put for people having their homes bombed.  What a dreadful situation for people to be in.  It's no wonder that the invading a country is considered the ultimate war crime....for the inevitable refugee crisis alone it deserves that status.

[Highgate]

4 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Why has Russia introduced a narrative now about chemical weapons?

If there's deployment of Syrian /Arab fighters on behalf of Russia, should nato intervene....tit for tat

Why is our government such a disgrace about the refugee system. Was it true that "extra home office resources deployed in calais"  turned out to be a couple of junior staff at a table handing out kit kats and crisps? 

This is another truly sinister development.  Why are they doing this....is it just to give them an another pretext for the invasion, or could it be something even worse?

It's exactly as the Russian journalist Dmitry Muratov says.  For Putin and his cronies 'the truth is merely what serves Russian interests'. Nothing more.

How an actual brawl hasn't broken out at the UN is a mystery to me....surely there is only so much nonsense people can listen to before someone snaps and slaps the Russian delegate on the head.  Not suggesting that as a sensible course of action.....but I wouldn't blame the person who did it.

[BaaLocks]

Couple more sinister developments in all of this.

• Suggestion that China are watching this all with interest and have already started to make moves as to how they might use learnings from this to 'reclaim' Taiwan if Russia's advance into Ukraine does end up successful
• Great piece on BBC about why many African countries are supporting Russia in this conflict. Many African leaders studied in Russia, particularly those who were in potential Marxist republics like Mozambique, Tanzania and Uganda. Also, Russia does not have the colonial history that USA and UK have, did not engage in the slave trade and so many are taking the 'my enemies enemy is my friend' logic. And, Russia funded largely many rebel Marxist factions that later came to power in Africa, for example the flag of Mozambique has a Kalashnikov rifle on it.
• To the above, Putin is offering now opportunity for anyone to fight, not for Russia but against the West - or rather the version of that which many somehow think Ukraine is. Which is why you now have 16,000 Arabs ready to fight, and let's not lose one moment of misunderstanding, they are fighting against the west, not for Russia.
• Part of the reason Putin is doing this is that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine at the moment are contractors / third party. Putin knows that once he starts sending in the actual Russian army, and body bags start coming home, then he is going to lose any local support (and he has very, very little at the moment) that he has on the home front. Even those who do support him are of the view that this needs resolving quickly
• There is now fighting between Kyrgyzstan and Turkmenistan, who sense opportunity to sort out local issues while the local eye (meaning Russia) is elsewhere
• Most worryingly, Russia are apparently looking to sell / exchange the Kuril islands to China to both curry favour and also fund the war effort. They are disputed territories, part of the Sakhalin chain. Problem is that this chain extends to Japan and they lay claim to these. If that happens Japan comes in to all of this and we have a World War, no debate

[Norman]

I can't believe anybody thinks that the actual Russian army isn't in Ukraine.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Couple more sinister developments in all of this.

• Suggestion that China are watching this all with interest and have already started to make moves as to how they might use learnings from this to 'reclaim' Taiwan if Russia's advance into Ukraine does end up successful
• Great piece on BBC about why many African countries are supporting Russia in this conflict. Many African leaders studied in Russia, particularly those who were in potential Marxist republics like Mozambique, Tanzania and Uganda. Also, Russia does not have the colonial history that USA and UK have, did not engage in the slave trade and so many are taking the 'my enemies enemy is my friend' logic. And, Russia funded largely many rebel Marxist factions that later came to power in Africa, for example the flag of Mozambique has a Kalashnikov rifle on it.
• To the above, Putin is offering now opportunity for anyone to fight, not for Russia but against the West - or rather the version of that which many somehow think Ukraine is. Which is why you now have 16,000 Arabs ready to fight, and let's not lose one moment of misunderstanding, they are fighting against the west, not for Russia.
• Part of the reason Putin is doing this is that most Russian soldiers in Ukraine at the moment are contractors / third party. Putin knows that once he starts sending in the actual Russian army, and body bags start coming home, then he is going to lose any local support (and he has very, very little at the moment) that he has on the home front. Even those who do support him are of the view that this needs resolving quickly
• There is now fighting between Kyrgyzstan and Turkmenistan, who sense opportunity to sort out local issues while the local eye (meaning Russia) is elsewhere
• Most worryingly, Russia are apparently looking to sell / exchange the Kuril islands to China to both curry favour and also fund the war effort. They are disputed territories, part of the Sakhalin chain. Problem is that this chain extends to Japan and they lay claim to these. If that happens Japan comes in to all of this and we have a World War, no debate

What is a contractor soldier? (not heard that phrase before) A mercenary? I thought you said they were all the equivalent of the TA?

[Highgate]

The Russian Embassy in Lisbon ?

[BaaLocks]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

What is a contractor soldier? (not heard that phrase before) A mercenary? I thought you said they were all the equivalent of the TA?

Yeah, to clarify (tbf bit of a translation / interpretation alignment at my end as well).

The Russian army fighting in Ukraine have all signed up to fight. The point is that the next stage for Putin is to introduce conscription, compulsory enlisting of men / women under a certain age.

[sage]

Not been on here for two weeks. 

Is Putin still misunderstood? 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

3 hours ago, sage said:

Not been on here for two weeks. 

Is Putin still misunderstood? 

Yes, he is much worse than first thought

[Tamworthram]

7 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Yeah, to clarify (tbf bit of a translation / interpretation alignment at my end as well).

The Russian army fighting in Ukraine have all signed up to fight. The point is that the next stage for Putin is to introduce conscription, compulsory enlisting of men / women under a certain age.

So, you’re saying the Russian military force will be strengthened in terms of numbers, but with significantly inferior ability (I don’t think anyone would claim that an unwilling, hastily trained conscript would be any match man for man, woman for woman, for a professional soldier)?

I thought you said before that Russia had only deployed the equivalent of our TA and the “real army” hadn’t yet been unleashed. Now it should like the opposite with the existing forces needing to be bolstered with conscripts.

Do you think the Russian population will still believe this is no more than a special military operation when Putin deploys conscripts?

Edited March 13, 2022 by Tamworthram

[Archied]

It’s certainly getting to the stage of real worry of how it escalates ,it’s clear that it’s not going to be a quick show of force , negotiations and compromise/ peaceful solution found or forced ??‍♂️

[Bob The Badger]

21 hours ago, cstand said:

Since this thread has descended into people using refugees for their own political  propaganda I will no longer bother reading it.

I run a few Facebook groups and I can never understand when people feel the need to tell everybody they're leaving.

Are you expecting people to beg you to come back, or were you just concerned we'd worry about what happened to you?

[Bob The Badger]

9 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Yeah, to clarify (tbf bit of a translation / interpretation alignment at my end as well).

The Russian army fighting in Ukraine have all signed up to fight. The point is that the next stage for Putin is to introduce conscription, compulsory enlisting of men / women under a certain age.

Really?

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/09/europe/russia-conscripts-fighting-ukraine-intl/index.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2022/03/01/shaken-russian-army-conscripts-make-perfect-targets-for-morale-crushing-operations/?sh=3feda6f751f8

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10598131/Russia-buries-18-year-old-conscript-youngest-victim-Ukraine-war-anger-grows.html

Is this the guy who signs them up?

[Bob The Badger]

For those of you on Twitter interested in what is happening in Ukraine, this guy is a must follow.

Ex-Major in the US military and now a leading academic on urban warfare, his entire life seems to be revolving around helping Ukrainian resistance on the ground via Twitter.

He could almost make a book out of his tweets and I scroll back to read every day.

 

[Tamworthram]

14 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

For those of you on Twitter interested in what is happening in Ukraine, this guy is a must follow.

Ex-Major in the US military and now a leading academic on urban warfare, his entire life seems to be revolving around helping Ukrainian resistance on the ground via Twitter.

He could almost make a book out of his tweets and I scroll back to read every day.

 

Sorry but Twitter is probably the last place I would look if I wanted to know what was happening in Ukraine.