If liquidated, Derby will no longer be a founder member of the EFL

[GlastoEls]

17 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I'd be surprised if the owning company hasn't already changed over the years.

Holding companies yes, but for what it’s worth, The Derby County Football Club Limited (inc 1986) is part of the structure still (and in Administration of course). 

[IslandExile]

4 minutes ago, GlastoEls said:

Holding companies yes, but for what it’s worth, The Derby County Football Club Limited (inc 1986) is part of the structure still (and in Administration of course). 

Cheers but prior to 1986?

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

where did you read this?

Anyway, I digress - I just want it to be true as some bloke said I was an idiot for suggesting it might happen and that there was NO WAY it would be even considered so I'd like to rub his stupid face in it please thank you

 

[GlastoEls]

30 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Cheers but prior to 1986?

Classic typo on my part.  The Derby County Football Club 1896 not 1986! ?

[WhiteHorseRam]

19 hours ago, i-Ram said:

What do you think @Boycie? I am sure it was you that told me he was definitely a self-flagellator.

Don't borrow his sleeping bag

[i-Ram]

5 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

Don't borrow his sleeping bag

He's not married, and I am pretty sure he's not seeing anyone.

[plymouthram]

On 23/01/2022 at 10:30, Boycie said:

I wouldn’t be against joining league two if that was the doomsday scenario.

It's a saving face suggestion that the EFL made suddenly since the MP's got involved. They would get so much stick if our club got liquidated and thrown out the league and that's why they have made this suggestion. The whinging git at Boro, who is pulling the EFL strings would be happy. Its strange that the EFL struck a deal with our Administrators, not to appeal against the 12 points, take another 9 points deduction and the slate will be wiped clean. Then all of a sudden the Rams quickly go from minus points to within a chance of staying up.

The permed hair whinger gets on the phone (or speaks to his CEO, who just happens to be on the EFL board) and starts moaning. Oh ! sorry Derby, you have to prove you have funds to finish off the season and we are stopping you signing on any players (Another Embargo) and you've got till the 1st of Feb when the transfer window is shut. Plus we ain't getting involved in the Boro, Wycombe encounter.

P.S. Did any one see that sky sports interview with Rick Parry on Derby county, it was like a Tory MP when questioned, the reporter did not get any decent answers. Parry did state that the EFL will be working around the clock to help Derby County. LIAR

 

[plymouthram]

On 23/01/2022 at 12:48, Tombo said:

Even if we started in League Two as a "new" entity but were still called Derby County Football Club, we'd never hear the end of it. Just ask Rangers.

And there'd be a part of you too that would feel something went missing. If we were relegated on the pitch, that's a continuation. If we're talking about a whole new squad, a whole new manager, a whole new owner, a whole new home venue (at least in the short term), a whole new training ground, a whole new league with entirely different circumstances, you've lost the threads of continuation.

I know we're delving into philosophy here but it's similar to the Ship of Theseus, or for a more pop culture reference, Trigger's Broom.

If we can't feasibly tie any new parts of the club together to the old, it's not what it used to be. Incremental change means we can honestly say our club is a continuation of that which was a founder member of the league. A continuation of '46, '72 and '75 amongst other glories.

A badge and a name is not enough to still be the same DCFC I'm afraid. We have to survive, otherwise we cannot honestly believe in ourselves that we have a continuous history from 1884 to 2022.

138 unbroken years must not be broken

Trigger's Broom was fixed several times

[JoetheRam]

On 23/01/2022 at 12:48, Tombo said:

Even if we started in League Two as a "new" entity but were still called Derby County Football Club, we'd never hear the end of it. Just ask Rangers.

And there'd be a part of you too that would feel something went missing. If we were relegated on the pitch, that's a continuation. If we're talking about a whole new squad, a whole new manager, a whole new owner, a whole new home venue (at least in the short term), a whole new training ground, a whole new league with entirely different circumstances, you've lost the threads of continuation.

I know we're delving into philosophy here but it's similar to the Ship of Theseus, or for a more pop culture reference, Trigger's Broom.

If we can't feasibly tie any new parts of the club together to the old, it's not what it used to be. Incremental change means we can honestly say our club is a continuation of that which was a founder member of the league. A continuation of '46, '72 and '75 amongst other glories.

A badge and a name is not enough to still be the same DCFC I'm afraid. We have to survive, otherwise we cannot honestly believe in ourselves that we have a continuous history from 1884 to 2022.

138 unbroken years must not be broken

Good post, although I disagree.

Think it's splitting hairs really. If it's called Derby County, and plays at Derby County's ground, in Derby County colours and the same fans support them, then it's Derby County.

Just cos a piece of legal paper that no normal person is gonna ever read has a slightly different name on it doesn't alter that for me.

What is a club in any case?

I guess I'm saying that Triggers broom remains Triggers broom regardless of how many heads and handles it's had.

And Rangers are still Rangers. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by JoetheRam

[Tombo]

15 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Good post, although I disagree.

Think it's splitting hairs really. If it's called Derby County, and plays at Derby County's ground, in Derby County colours and the same fans support them, then it's Derby County.

Just cos a piece of legal paper that no normal person is gonna ever read has a slightly different name on it doesn't alter that for me.

What is a club in any case?

I guess I'm saying that Triggers broom remains Triggers broom regardless of how many heads and handles it's had.

And Rangers are still Rangers. 

I do understand that viewpoint, and I think the purpose of my post is that yes, Trigger's Broom remains the same broom. However it remains the same broom because the head is changed, then the handle. Just like the Ship of Theseus where every individual part is changed over time. Over time is the key part.

If Trigger went out and got a brand new handle and head at the same time, and got rid of the old one, it's not the same broom is it? It remains the same because the incremental change over time continues the spirit of the original object

Like I said, it's philosophy beyond what a football club should be subjected to.

All in all, I probably feel the way I do because it feels a bit defeatist to even think about League Two right now. Not to criticise those who see it as an optimistic view that we at least have League Two to fall back on. But a few months back League One was a certainty,but pure concentrated power of will has changed that. We've still got a club to fight for and I think that should be front and centre of our thoughts.

What happens if the club is liquidated is what happens. As it is, some incredible effort from fans and the people of Derby and surrounding areas have made liquidation far far less likely. Let's move in that direction. I don't want "basically the same thing", I want the real DCFC

[PistoldPete]

17 minutes ago, Tombo said:

I do understand that viewpoint, and I think the purpose of my post is that yes, Trigger's Broom remains the same broom. However it remains the same broom because the head is changed, then the handle. Just like the Ship of Theseus where every individual part is changed over time. Over time is the key part.

If Trigger went out and got a brand new handle and head at the same time, and got rid of the old one, it's not the same broom is it? It remains the same because the incremental change over time continues the spirit of the original object

Like I said, it's philosophy beyond what a football club should be subjected to.

All in all, I probably feel the way I do because it feels a bit defeatist to even think about League Two right now. Not to criticise those who see it as an optimistic view that we at least have League Two to fall back on. But a few months back League One was a certainty,but pure concentrated power of will has changed that. We've still got a club to fight for and I think that should be front and centre of our thoughts.

What happens if the club is liquidated is what happens. As it is, some incredible effort from fans and the people of Derby and surrounding areas have made liquidation far far less likely. Let's move in that direction. I don't want "basically the same thing", I want the real DCFC

I repeat the club is not liquidated. The Company that owns the club may be  liquidated, it's a Corporate insolvency event. The club, its badge, its honours, its playing strip maybe even some of its players , still playing at the same ground probably and with the same fans and the same history. Its the same club. It will never die whatever happens. . 

[Day]

Does anyone have the link to the article which spoke about is being offered a place in League 2 if liquidated?

[Tombo]

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I repeat the club is not liquidated. The Company that owns the club may be  liquidated, it's a Corporate insolvency event. The club, its badge, its honours, its playing strip maybe even some of its players , still playing at the same ground probably and with the same fans and the same history. Its the same club. It will never die whatever happens. . 

I think we're on different pages here. If we don't pay the football creditors in full then we lose our golden share. If we are liquidated there is very little chance that all gets met, especially if Boro and Wycombe are part of that. The outcome you're talking about is far from certain.

I'm going to leave this there though and don't want to respond on it further. I don't think we agree and I'm all good with that ?

[curb]

6 minutes ago, David said:

Does anyone have the link to the article which spoke about is being offered a place in League 2 if liquidated?

It was a Nixon tweet

[PistoldPete]

8 minutes ago, Tombo said:

I think we're on different pages here. If we don't pay the football creditors in full then we lose our golden share. If we are liquidated there is very little chance that all gets met, especially if Boro and Wycombe are part of that. The outcome you're talking about is far from certain.

I'm going to leave this there though and don't want to respond on it further. I don't think we agree and I'm all good with that ?

The tweet from Nixon said even if we are liquidated we could still play in League 2. There is no rule to say the golden share cannot be transferred to a phoenix company..  Whether that happens we do not know.. and it's Nixon so he could be talking BS, I agree.  . 

[Raich Carter]

It's about reputation and the fans for me. The other fans will know we, the fans, are DCFC. We know our history, they know our history so it wouldn't bother me at all that the 15th legal entity that has held the IP is different... 

It's like saying Mel Morris or Robert Maxwell are DCFC - they owned the club but they clearly are NOT DCFC! The fans are. The club is obviously nothing without the fans - I don't think people really realise that sometimes. I've always said we'd get 15,000 fans if we played at the Racecourse and I stand by it. Just like Rangers, we'd come back to hold our place in the league because we're a club (i.e. this group of fans) of a certain size. Bury were always a small club so it was much harder for them to mobilise as the DCFC fans have.

It'll all be forgotten one day just like Leeds, etc.