RoyMac5 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) This is what being liquidated would also mean. It wouldn't be the same club. Derby County would no longer exist and we would therefore not be a founder member. So when you consider the 'generosity' of the EFL in (allegedly) suggesting we could start again in League 2, this is what they're proposing. Edited January 23, 2022 by angieram Requested by poster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, RoyMac5 said: This is what being liquidated would also mean. It wouldn't be the same club. Derby County would no longer exist and we would therefore not be a founder member. So when you consider the 'generosity' of the EFL in (allegedly) suggesting we could start again in League 2, this is what they're proposing. Planning on doing what SFL did to rangers - but didn’t rangers keep their honours and name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, davenportram said: Planning on doing what SFL did to rangers - but didn’t rangers keep their honours and name How is that possible, it's not the same club. If the Club is liquidated then you no longer exist as a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 No thats not true Roy. The club is a separate entity from the Company that owns it. Wigan were liquidated last year, still playing in the EFL in fact no further punishment apart from the 12 point deduction which as it happened did relegate them to League One. And it's still the same club. The same badge, the same history , the same ground , the same fans. Leeds United were liquidated too. Same thing. It will be sad to see the old Company go but to be honest it may be that that is what Q were planning anyway, liquidating the old Company and transferring the club to a new one. That is not a phoenix club. It's a phoenix Company. Carnero, StarterForTen, Ken Tram and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 I wouldn’t be against joining league two if that was the doomsday scenario. MackworthRamIsGod, Jimbo Ram, bimmerman and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Boycie said: I wouldn’t be against joining league two if that was the doomsday scenario. It would not be an insiginificant concession, that even in the event of us being liquidated we stay in the EFL. Bury (the Company) have not even been liquidated and yet they were banished into the darkness. Maybe EFL is recognising (or being forced to recognise) they haven't exactly been blameless themsleves. Ken Tram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 32 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: This is what being liquidated would also mean. It wouldn't be the same club. Derby County would no longer exist and we would therefore not be a founder member. So when you consider the 'generosity' of the EFL in (allegedly) suggesting we could start again in League 2, this is what they're proposing. Bury FC still exists as well. A fan group have bought the name, honours stadium, etc and if they haven't already done so will soon be rejoining the football pyramid. They also have a Phoenix club called Bury AFC, which i believe will merge with the old Bury when itcomes back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: It would not be an insiginificant concession, that even in the event of us being liquidated we stay in the EFL. Bury (the Company) have not even been liquidated and yet they were banished into the darkness. Maybe EFL is recognising (or being forced to recognise) they haven't exactly been blameless themsleves. Yes, obviously getting out the lower leagues isn’t a given, just look at Sunderland, but in my opinion could be an exciting journey. Jimbo Ram and Premier ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Boycie said: Yes, obviously getting out the lower leagues isn’t a given, just look at Sunderland, but in my opinion could be an exciting journey. Probably more fun playing in the lower leagues than it is being stuck in the championship for 20 years losing out at the last hurdle to another parachute team again and again and again. Boycie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 29 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: No thats not true Roy. The club is a separate entity from the Company that owns it. Wigan were liquidated last year, still playing in the EFL in fact no further punishment apart from the 12 point deduction which as it happened did relegate them to League One. And it's still the same club. The same badge, the same history , the same ground , the same fans. Leeds United were liquidated too. Same thing. It will be sad to see the old Company go but to be honest it may be that that is what Q were planning anyway, liquidating the old Company and transferring the club to a new one. That is not a phoenix club. It's a phoenix Company. Is that the case, how does it actually work? ? https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/case-studies/company-administration/administration-of-wigan-athletic-football-club This says: "Outcome Against all odds, our Partners cleared all football creditors and managed to find a buyer for the club to stave off the threat of liquidation which would have seen an historic community football club disappear from the English Football League." Sounds good. Well lets get liquidated then if it doesn't matter. That was easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, GenBr said: Bury FC still exists as well. A fan group have bought the name, honours stadium, etc and if they haven't already done so will soon be rejoining the football pyramid. They also have a Phoenix club called Bury AFC, which i believe will merge with the old Bury when itcomes back Yes I think it's the Phoenix club that Roy may be objecting to. But this isnt that. DCFC will survive even liquidation. I have been saying this all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 43 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: This is what being liquidated would also mean. It wouldn't be the same club. Derby County would no longer exist and we would therefore not be a founder member. So when you consider the 'generosity' of the EFL in (allegedly) suggesting we could start again in League 2, this is what they're proposing. Macclesfield Town FC is still described as “Founded 1874 (as Macclesfield FC)” even though the original company was wound up in 2020. It would be the same club in my eyes, and most other peoples eyes, even if technically it wasn’t. TigerTedd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, Tamworthram said: Macclesfield Town FC is still described as “Founded 1874 (as Macclesfield FC)” even though the original company was wound up in 2020. It would be the same club in my eyes, and most other peoples eyes, even if technically it wasn’t. Well I suppose such nuances don't matter to many, but for me I'd like to clear up the reality of liquidation. For me "Macclesfield Town FC is still described as “Founded 1874 (as Macclesfield FC)" is not the same club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Is that the case, how does it actually work? ? https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/case-studies/company-administration/administration-of-wigan-athletic-football-club This says: "Outcome Against all odds, our Partners cleared all football creditors and managed to find a buyer for the club to stave off the threat of liquidation which would have seen an historic community football club disappear from the English Football League." Sounds good. Well lets get liquidated then if it doesn't matter. That was easy. Wigan was different because they went into volunatry liquidation after "the club" was sold to a phoenix company. Not sure exactly what Nixon is saying (I doubt he does either) , but I don't think there is an actual EFL Rule that says this cannot happen even on involuntray liquidation. But if you run out of cash and cant pay player wages EFL doesnt like that, and that's why Bury were banished. As the Bury MP said that was very harsh and shouldn't be allowed to happen again. RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Well I suppose such nuances don't matter to many, but for me I'd like to clear up the reality of liquidation. For me "Macclesfield Town FC is still described as “Founded 1874 (as Macclesfield FC)" is not the same club. It isn't I dont think the same club. Not sure about the macclesfield situation ours would be more like Wigan I think, same club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 45 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: ...Leeds United were liquidated too. Same thing. It will be sad to see the old Company go but to be honest it may be that that is what Q were planning anyway, liquidating the old Company and transferring the club to a new one. That is not a phoenix club. It's a phoenix Company. There's a very interesting description of the process they went through on here: https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/leeds-utd-creditors-were-satisfied-not-a-liquidators-charter/ "This is not a Liquidator’s Charter. Provisions in football only exist to transfer a League share from one company to another if creditors are satisfied, either by being paid in full or, as with Leeds United, with 75% agreeing to accept a diminished amount." Also here: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/latest-leeds-united-news/liquidators-finally-draw-line-under-leeds-uniteds-2007-administration-less-ps750000-paid-unsecured-creditors-484360 "Liquidators appointed after Leeds United entered administration almost 12 years ago have finally dissolved the original company which owned the club - with less than £750,000 paid to unsecured creditors." Ken Tram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Hopefully it won’t come to that Macca ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Yes I think it's the Phoenix club that Roy may be objecting to. But this isnt that. DCFC will survive even liquidation. I have been saying this all along. I'm getting confused by all this - hope it doesn't come to liquidation, but what would happen to the Clubs assets ie players etc if the Club's ownership was transferred to another company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I'm getting confused by all this - hope it doesn't come to liquidation, but what would happen to the Clubs assets ie players etc if the Club's ownership was transferred to another company? The Admins sell the lot, PP becomes an Amazon hub/spare vaccine dump. Poof. Gone. We reconvene at Markeaton Park one Saturday morning to fill the first lot of forms in. Maybe Idiakez will be our first Phoenix captain ? It then takes 7 YEARS minimum to get back to where we are now - and that would be back-to-back promotions. It would not be pretty. i-Ram and RoyMac5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Spalding Ram Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: We reconvene at Markeaton Park one Saturday morning to fill the first lot of forms in. Maybe Idiakez will be our first Phoenix captain ? It then takes 7 YEARS minimum to get back to where we are now - and that would be back-to-back promotions. It would not be pretty. ……the changing rooms at the Racecourse are better. ? as to Macs point. A fan group known as Est 1885 says it has signed an agreement to buy Bury FC, along with its intellectual property, trading name, history and assets. A spokesperson for the group said it hoped the club would be reinserted into the footballing pyramid in time for the 2022/23 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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