The Football Creditor rule is explicit, simple, and solves all of Derby's issues

[Keepyuppy]

David, that makes absolute sense and you have succinctly navigated rules perfectly - I hope you have forwarded this to the Administrators, who can instruct their Legal Team to take the necessary action against the EFL.

Once again, thank you ?

[SBW]

Didn't Radio Derby say no one has actually made an offer?

[Sparkle]

5 minutes ago, SBW said:

Didn't Radio Derby say no one has actually made an offer?

Because they can’t due to the EFL position of tiny  possibility of winning of a case that hasn’t been made 

[StantonRam]

David

You genius!

Have just sent this to my local MP (Sarah Dines), hope that's OK.

The administrators should be paying you for this stuff really, I wonder what their hourly rate is?

[Kathcairns]

14 hours ago, Oldben said:

https://intelligenceuk.com/index.php/2021/05/06/teesside-is-the-fraud-and-asset-stripping-hub-of-the-corrupt-establishment/

We talk about MM behaviour but here (long before MM) Gibson's nature was revealed.

 

 

Have just read this, has gibson forgotten this. I think it wants bringing up in our figh for our club.

[PistoldPete]

14 hours ago, Oldben said:

https://intelligenceuk.com/index.php/2021/05/06/teesside-is-the-fraud-and-asset-stripping-hub-of-the-corrupt-establishment/

We talk about MM behaviour but here (long before MM) Gibson's nature was revealed.

 

 

Ripping off the taxpayer is what Gibson likes to do. It was pointed out by one of the MPs in the Government debate yesterday that Gibson and Couhig were trying to jump to the head of the queue … ahead of Hmrc . And maybe this Government wouldn’t be happy about that.

[PistoldPete]

9 hours ago, SBW said:

Didn't Radio Derby say no one has actually made an offer?

They have made conditional offers I believe. Conditional on these claims being compromised … so that’s what is holding things up according to Quantuma .Efl saying the claims can’t be compromised , q saying they can.

[Oldben]

12 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Would you trust the EFL not to screw the new owners by doing something like retrospectively giving Boro & Wycombe 'football creditor' status?!

That's a reason for raising this in parliament, it puts the spotlight on the efl.

A tactic like your suggesting, gives parliament am opportunity to step in and deal with the efl.

I would like parliament to raise another enquiry against the efl, like they did for Bury fc and I'd like to see parliament do more than just make recommendations.

The Bury fc enquiry recommendations don't seem to have been followed by the efl.

[Elwood P Dowd]

It your clubs in trouble the EFL are always available to step in and finish you off ?

[Phuket Ram]

Although it's really helpful, I think you may be barking up the wrong lamp post..

Article 48 merely defines who is a Football creditor when payment is due and is in default.

Under these terms, the rule simply defines that if we owe money to Middlesbrough et al, for whatever reason, then the debt is then treated as a preferential football debt and must be repaid in full.

At the time of going into administration, and as of right now, we do not owe Middlesbrough or Wickham any money at all. Zilch. 

However, the administrators view, quite rightly, is that although Middlesbrough are a football creditor ordinarily by definition, this action is potentially one of litigation for damages, and is clearly in dispute and indeed was not even filed for litigation prior to DCFC going into administration (presumably with Middlesbrough following EFL instruction).  

There is no debt, there are no amounts owed, currently.

The EFL however will have convinced Middlesbrough that they [EFL] will decide what, if anything, is owed - to avoid costly litigation. And we all know very well what that usually means... ?

The problem is that, as this should have been a matter of litigation not arbitration, the EFL has indeed shot themselves in both feet and may now, quite rightly, either be sued by DCFC or sued by Middlesbrough.

The EFL's own incompetence and delusions of an all-powerful being, has put all parties in a lose/lose situation. 

The only way out I can see is for the EFL to pay off Middlesbrough and Wickham.

The alternative being that DCFC goes into liquidation and the EFL's litigation problem potentially goes away, but things then may get a whole lot worse and the EFL risks being reformed into something else..

I'd like to see all parties stick to their guns, we go to court external from the EFL, and DCFC finds funding for the remainder of the season.

That way the EFL will almost certainly implode, DCFC gets to survive.

So, admins - find the cash from one of the potential owners, go to court and get a ruling. The EFL can whistle. The new owners then buy the club once the litigation is concluded. I.e. some time in the summer... 

[i-Ram]

7 minutes ago, Ramitupper said:

Although it's really helpful, I think you may be barking up the wrong lamp post..

Article 48 merely defines who is a Football creditor when payment is due and is in default.

Under these terms, the rule simply defines that if we owe money to Middlesbrough et al, for whatever reason, then the debt is then treated as a preferential football debt and must be repaid in full.

At the time of going into administration, and as of right now, we do not owe Middlesbrough or Wickham any money at all. Zilch. 

However, the administrators view, quite rightly, is that although Middlesbrough are a football creditor ordinarily by definition, this action is potentially one of litigation for damages, and is clearly in dispute and indeed was not even filed for litigation prior to DCFC going into administration (presumably with Middlesbrough following EFL instruction).  

There is no debt, there are no amounts owed, currently.

The EFL however will have convinced Middlesbrough that they [EFL] will decide what, if anything, is owed - to avoid costly litigation. And we all know very well what that usually means... ?

The problem is that, as this should have been a matter of litigation not arbitration, the EFL has indeed shot themselves in both feet and may now, quite rightly, either be sued by DCFC or sued by Middlesbrough.

The EFL's own incompetence and delusions of an all-powerful being, has put all parties in a lose/lose situation. 

The only way out I can see is for the EFL to pay off Middlesbrough and Wickham.

The alternative being that DCFC goes into liquidation and the EFL's litigation problem potentially goes away, but things then may get a whole lot worse and the EFL risks being reformed into something else..

I'd like to see all parties stick to their guns, we go to court external from the EFL, and DCFC finds funding for the remainder of the season.

That way the EFL will almost certainly implode, DCFC gets to survive.

So, admins - find the cash from one of the potential owners, go to court and get a ruling. The EFL can whistle. The new owners then buy the club once the litigation is concluded. I.e. some time in the summer... 

I agree buddy. The issue will hopefully go away if indeed the Administrators can enforce the law provisions as to standalone moratoriums relating to matters under arbitration (rather than Boro and Wycombe being an actual confirmed and validated creditor of any kind). Hopefully the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 will be being scrutinised by the Minister for Sport over the coming days, and hopefully he will be giving them his Ministerial view that to ignore those provisions will leave them subject to the provisions of law enforcement too. Lot of hopefullys there.

[BramcoteRam84]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

They have made conditional offers I believe. Conditional on these claims being compromised … so that’s what is holding things up according to Quantuma .Efl saying the claims can’t be compromised , q saying they can.

Kirchner’s comments on Twitter this week would indicate this. He said he offered £40m with £30m funding next season, said there was an offer from another bidder of £42.5m so administrators went in that direction 

[CBRammette]

18 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I agree buddy. The issue will hopefully go away if indeed the Administrators can enforce the law provisions as to standalone moratoriums relating to matters under arbitration (rather than Boro and Wycombe being an actual confirmed and validated creditor of any kind). Hopefully the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 will be being scrutinised by the Minister for Sport over the coming days, and hopefully he will be giving them his Ministerial view that to ignore those provisions will leave them subject to the provisions of law enforcement too. Lot of hopefullys there.

Yes especially if he is at a cheese and wine work event

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

28 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I agree buddy. The issue will hopefully go away if indeed the Administrators can enforce the law provisions as to standalone moratoriums relating to matters under arbitration (rather than Boro and Wycombe being an actual confirmed and validated creditor of any kind). Hopefully the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 will be being scrutinised by the Minister for Sport over the coming days, and hopefully he will be giving them his Ministerial view that to ignore those provisions will leave them subject to the provisions of law enforcement too. Lot of hopefullys there.

In my unqualified view this is the only way to resolve matters. Its the only route that doesn't need any cooperation from any of the entrenched parties. Hopefully the administrators will now push hard for this. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by The Scarlet Pimpernel

[PistoldPete]

45 minutes ago, Ramitupper said:

Although it's really helpful, I think you may be barking up the wrong lamp post..

Article 48 merely defines who is a Football creditor when payment is due and is in default.

Under these terms, the rule simply defines that if we owe money to Middlesbrough et al, for whatever reason, then the debt is then treated as a preferential football debt and must be repaid in full.

At the time of going into administration, and as of right now, we do not owe Middlesbrough or Wickham any money at all. Zilch. 

However, the administrators view, quite rightly, is that although Middlesbrough are a football creditor ordinarily by definition, this action is potentially one of litigation for damages, and is clearly in dispute and indeed was not even filed for litigation prior to DCFC going into administration (presumably with Middlesbrough following EFL instruction).  

There is no debt, there are no amounts owed, currently.

The EFL however will have convinced Middlesbrough that they [EFL] will decide what, if anything, is owed - to avoid costly litigation. And we all know very well what that usually means... ?

The problem is that, as this should have been a matter of litigation not arbitration, the EFL has indeed shot themselves in both feet and may now, quite rightly, either be sued by DCFC or sued by Middlesbrough.

The EFL's own incompetence and delusions of an all-powerful being, has put all parties in a lose/lose situation. 

The only way out I can see is for the EFL to pay off Middlesbrough and Wickham.

The alternative being that DCFC goes into liquidation and the EFL's litigation problem potentially goes away, but things then may get a whole lot worse and the EFL risks being reformed into something else..

I'd like to see all parties stick to their guns, we go to court external from the EFL, and DCFC finds funding for the remainder of the season.

That way the EFL will almost certainly implode, DCFC gets to survive.

So, admins - find the cash from one of the potential owners, go to court and get a ruling. The EFL can whistle. The new owners then buy the club once the litigation is concluded. I.e. some time in the summer... 

I think the admin teams stated view is that they are creditors of indeterminate value, but not football creditors. As such they can form part of a CVA or restructuring arrangement along with other unsecured creditors. 
 

and have their claims reduced as a result of the statutory process . So they only get 25% or whatever they are awarded as a result of the final settlement.

Edited January 19, 2022 by PistoldPete

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think the admin teams stated view is that they are creditors of indeterminate value, but not football creditors. As such they can form part of a CVA or restructuring arrangement along with other unsecured creditors. 
 

and have their claims reduced as a result of the statutory process . So they only get 25% or whatever they are awarded as a result of the final settlement.

I'm not clued up Pete but I didn't think that was said. They used a phrase which I thought basically meant if they followed the law of the land their claims would be squashed? 

 

PS . I think they spoke of coming out of administration clean?

Edited January 19, 2022 by The Scarlet Pimpernel

[Eddie]

38 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I'm not clued up Pete but I didn't think that was said. They used a phrase which I thought basically meant if they followed the law of the land their claims would be squashed? 

 

PS . I think they spoke of coming out of administration clean?

In which case...

[i-Ram]

48 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

In my unqualified view this is the only way to resolve matters. Its the only route that doesn't need any cooperation from any of the entrenched parties. Hopefully the administrators will now push hard for this. 

Well your unqualified view, is as good as my unquallified view, is as good as anyone's unqualified view.

It seems we have no expert on this forum, well versed in the practical applications of Insolvency Law. I think it high time that David brought in some membership bar whereby you can only become a member and post if you are of some professional standing. I would like my own chair too.

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Well your unqualified view, is as good as my unquallified view, is as good as anyone's unqualified view.

It seems we have no expert on this forum, well versed in the practical applications of Insolvency Law. I think it high time that David brought in some membership bar whereby you can only become a member and post if you are of some professional standing. I would like my own chair too.

[i-Ram]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Thank you Roy, but that looks terribly modern and vulgar. I was thinking more ....